World of Warcraft®

26/12/2010 10:57 AMPosted by Bovidictus

If bosses die it's fine. And check MMO Champion. Guess what? They died.

This is the worst logic I've heard in a while. Also, read before you post:

Without fixes, it is unlikely that we will see druid healers progressing into the harder heroic encounters when the average gear level increases.

[quote="13027501238"]If bosses die it's fine. And check MMO Champion. Guess what? They died.

By this reasoning, it'd be perfectly fine if in order to take part in heroic content you had to take a specific tank class, specific healing class or specific dps class, forcing people to reroll or be left out of experiencing the highest tier of content. I'm fairly certain this is one thing most everyone doesn't agree with, especially not when they are the ones being left out of raids because of such poor encounter design/class balance.

Top guilds still use druid healers. They may be at the bottom of you l33t HPS meter. But they are usefull and bosses still die. Merry Christmas.

"Waah, I wanna top the healing meter spamming Rejuv again and I am not so I want buffs. Waah."

This issue needs a bump. On a more serious note - I honestly can't understand why it's perfectly fine to stack paladins in every expansion. I'm really looking forward to a situation where brinning two restoration shamans is considered as a plus - Brought because of their awesome healing and utility, because it's a strong choise.

Paladins was the most overpowered healing class trough out wotlk and this trend seems to continue. I know holy priest are performing well right now but they struggeled since ulduar, so thats okey(coffcient nerfed on PoH).

Paladins need to be runed down tbh - and they will.

26/12/2010 12:37 PMPosted by Bovidictus

Top guilds still use druid healers. They may be at the bottom of you l33t HPS meter. But they are usefull and bosses still die. Merry Christmas.

And at some point they will bench said druids and bring in priest/paladin alts, just as pretty much every guild did for f.ex. Anub'Arak HC 25man. Problem is, that time it was about the fight mechanics favouring paladins, where as now the problem is systemic.

I don't expect you're the best to comment on the realities of progress raiding anyway, from the looks of it, that's not your cup of tea. For those of us who do take part, not having great disparities between the viability of different classes is of very real consequence. After all, it'd be silly to have your progress decided by the classes you can bring or the alts you have available, rather than the skill of your players.

26/12/2010 3:22 PMPosted by Shammad

Top guilds still use druid healers. They may be at the bottom of you l33t HPS meter. But they are usefull and bosses still die. Merry Christmas.

And at some point they will bench said druids and bring in priest/paladin alts, just as pretty much every guild did for f.ex. Anub'Arak HC 25man. Problem is, that time it was about the fight mechanics favouring paladins, where as now the problem is systemic.

I don't expect you're the best to comment on the realities of progress raiding anyway, from the looks of it, that's not your cup of tea. For those of us who do take part, not having great disparities between the viability of different classes is of very real consequence. After all, it'd be silly to have your progress decided by the classes you can bring or the alts you have available, rather than the skill of your players.

after a short peak in your achievements, you should't really comment anything eather.

26/12/2010 4:13 PMPosted by Cuddlegnome

after a short peak in your achievements, you should't really comment anything eather.

I've switched chars for Cata. At best I was in on a world top20 tribute to insanity (25man) with my Priest. That good enough for you?

Besides, all I was saying was that, for someone who doesn't raid this may seem like a trivial issue, but for those who do raid, and more importantly, for those who raid cutting edge content, this is a very real concern. Otherwise I doubt Arx would have started this thread. I nor anyone else I suspect would require anyone to care about this issue if it doesn't factor into their playing experience, however that's no reason to claim it should not received attention from Blizzard on behalf of those for whom it does matter. That would be akin to me saying issue of pvp balance don't matter, because I don't pvp. It's silly to actively work to deprive anyone else of their ability to enjoy the aspect of the game which they choose to take part in, to the extent that it does not ruin the enjoyment of others.

This issue needs a bump. On a more serious note - I honestly can't understand why it's perfectly fine to stack paladins in every expansion. I'm really looking forward to a situation where brinning two restoration shamans is considered as a plus - Brought because of their awesome healing and utility, because it's a strong choise.

This is more into the ethical part of the problem, but I kinda feel the same way. The paladin has been the leading healer class for an expansion now and the trend just continues, I'd love to see a change. (To the complainers, of course priests and shamans instead of druids would feel great.)

26/12/2010 4:38 PMPosted by Vanessabrams

his is more into the ethical part of the problem, but I kinda feel the same way. The paladin has been the leading healer class for an expansion now and the trend just continues, I'd love to see a change. (To the complainers, of course priests and shamans instead of druids would feel great.)

I'm not really sure what you're on about here tbh. Granted paladins were good tank healers through-out, but because they weren't raidhealers, you weren't really encouraged to stack them except for Anub'Arak 25man HC. In general, no single healing class really outperformed the others across the board during WotLK, there were specific encounters that heavily favoured a given style of healing, but that's gone in favour of druids, priests or paladins, heck even Shamans kind of had their day int he sun spothealing on Algalon. Really the last time we saw a given healing class simply out-strip the others to a point where guilds in general started benching other healers was during TBC with Shaman stacking, and that's something nobody really wants to see happen again, thus this topic.

Paladins was a "most have" for every single challinging encounter during wotlk.

26/12/2010 5:33 PMPosted by Sagn

for every single challinging encounter during wotlk.

In 10mans...sure, holydins were a bit too important, but then the game wasn't balanced around 10mans. But it's hardly a huge issue that you needed to bring 1 holydin for a 25man encounter, nor anything anyone was getting benched for. If you deserved a raid spot, there's still 4-6 more spots for healers.

The easiest way to fix this problem would be to reduce the internal CD on revitalize to 6 seconds like it was. Buffing the numbers would eventually cause more imbalance, where as reducing the CD on revitalize again will give us more mana return allowing us to use rejuv more in the early stages of the expansion without causing major changes to numbers in the later end of the expansion.

With better gear the return off revitalize will increase allowing us to use rejuv more so we will hopefully remain comparable to other healers since they will be capable of using more powerful abilities. Shamefully we didn't get new abilities and so rejuv will stay a highly used spell.

26/12/2010 2:55 PMPosted by Sagn

Paladins was the most overpowered healing class trough out wotlk and this trend seems to continue. I know holy priest are performing well right now but they struggeled since ulduar, so thats okey(coffcient nerfed on PoH).

Paladins need to be runed down tbh - and they will.

Holy priests struggled in wrath? WYF? Have you been playing the same game? Priests just face rolled wrath, the good ones ofc...

I guess you did not see last patch notes.... Let's forget that paladins have the worst healing mastery in game, the aoe heals are very situational and the beacon of light whining has to stop lol Yes we have beacon, yes it does like 20-30% of our healing, but guess what, we don't have any other healing tools
paladins have beacon
druids have lifebloom, rejuv
shamans riptide, earth shield
priests have poh, renew and rest of their 100 heals + by far the best healing mastery that is amazing

90% of healers in these forums have no clue what they qq about, they mostly qq that they suck and don't understand what the hell to do, and expect to faceroll pugs like in wrath. well sad day champs wrath is gone, as much as i loved to faceroll hc's back then, i am glad it's gone, i like tbc hc's much more.

And i agree with xaar that druids and shamans might be a little under tuned and buffs to CH and WG might be needed...to make them more effective also rejuv should be a bit cheeper...

26/12/2010 5:33 PMPosted by Sagn

Paladins was a "most have" for every single challinging encounter during wotlk.

You don't say, it also was the only class without any aoe heals designed purely for tank healing.

[quote="13027511815"] In general, no single healing class really outperformed the others across the board during WotLK, there were specific encounters that heavily favoured a given style of healing, but that's gone in favour of druids, priests or paladins, heck even Shamans kind of had their day int he sun spothealing on Algalon. Really the last time we saw a given healing class simply out-strip the others to a point where guilds in general started benching other healers was during TBC with Shaman stacking, and that's something nobody really wants to see happen again, thus this topic.

Good point sir, agree 100%.

You don't say, it also was the only class without any aoe heals designed purely for tank healing.

It stopped mattering after 3.2. Having 2 Holy Paladins on tank healing duty was like having 4 other healers doing the same. Beacon became absurd tool and they got Aura Mastery as well. No, they never reached Disc Priest vs Infest status, but no one could compare with them on tank healing - unless boss was single tanked which didn't really happen.

26/12/2010 7:55 PMPosted by Raji

Holy priests struggled in wrath? WYF? Have you been playing the same game? Priests just face rolled wrath, the good ones ofc...

You're confusing Disc with Holy and forgetting that Holy lost a lot of its power after 3.2... and never really got back up until Cataclysm. Disc was faceroll until the end, Holy was pretty much gimped Druid with Renew spam being their best tool, since PoH got neutered after Ulduar.

Either way, past doesn't matter - or at least shouldn't. Also, there's issue of gear scaling. We don't know what ilvl will T12 be. If it's another 13 ilvl jump, regen issues might dissapear very quickly, so any buff to Rejuv might end up in WotLK style hot blanketing. On the other hand, something that's definately wrong nowadays are healer masteries. 4 of them are more or less useless, or, at very best, "so-so", which is something that should be taken care of first. Or maybe I'm wrong here, but I do like my free and stacking hot on every heal. I feel like Blizzard tried to be bit too original with other ones and it doesn't really work well - at least in current gear.
"Circle heals" are another thing that isn't really balanced. Sanctuary feels pretty meh, but PoH makes up for it easily. On the other hand, Healing Rain has to make up for Chain Heal being weaker. Druids have their own issues. Seems like it's one bad spell + one good spell combo resulting in severe issues.

Everryone talking about meters and HPS

Sad thing is most of that is coming from are talent self heal protector of the innocent which heals me when i cast a heal on any target. Look at meters that alone is 15-20% of my healing yes it looks good on meters but it doesn't mean i did anything.

Beacon is doing another 15% but that again is because of protector of the innocent as beacon works better when i am injured as it takes heals from my heal and PotI.

My AOE heals are weak like everyone elses Healign hands cost 11k last 10 seconds roughly heals 1.2k a second requires poeple to hug me for 6 yards heals for less if further than that.

LoD requres 3HP to use properly which is either 3 holy shocks or 2 holy shocks and a crusader strike or a mix of DL and HS on beacon which heals 4-5 people in cone for 4k health not exactly great numbers.

Remove PotI from recount or what ever and the cross over it gets from beacon and you WILL see a huge drop in are numbers. the only reason we look so good is because of that.


I aint saying we will be destroyed without it but numbers wise it adds a lot

Paladins was a "most have" for every single challinging encounter during wotlk.

It might just be me, but I see you're wearing a pair of cloth gloves and a leather belt. Have you perhaps forgotten about the 5 % intellect you lose or is there some other reason for not wearing mail exclusively?

[quote="13027510967"]

paladins have beacon
druids have lifebloom, rejuv
shamans riptide, earth shield
priests have poh, renew and rest of their 100 heals + by far the best healing mastery that is amazing

From a druid PoV Lifebloom is like a poor mans beacon , Its single target only and if you talent into one of the few rare talents that improve a druids direct heals it resets the lifebloom every heal. and its the one "Tool" that a druid has to use on their main target or suffer an approx 43% weaker efficient heal than other classes.

Rejuv Fair do's its a tool BUT due to the retarded cost its not a tool available for free use as the cost is extremely prohibitive esp when you look at how many talents blizz stuffed into the resto tree that effect rejuv,

So really saying Druids have tools Used to be true but the way failcrawler and the retard brigade "Balanced" druids they removed many tools from all but an ohhhh (&*^(**^ situation.

Not the term Front Loaded , something druids do not have , hell to even perform at another healers level a HoT is required on the target or druids are sub par , Basically Blizzards talents and mastery show the designed druids to be Rejuv spammers , then changed their mind and were 2 goddamn lazy to fix it.