For real Blizz? Mulitboxing ALLOWED?!

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86 Goblin Hunter
4195
I dont like the multiboxers either, but you can slap em silly.
and if that doesnt work just leave BG and visit the irl pub.
100 Draenei Hunter
17145
Nothing wrong with multiboxing. As with any PvP group, you just need tactics to take them apart. Despite them acting as a single player, effectively, you can't treat them as one.


You intentionally ignored the part that says "Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs"", neither of which applies to multiboxing.

I will rephrase how I understand it:
a) Using or exploiting errors in design
b) features which have not been documented
c) "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available
d) to obtain a competitive advantage over other players.


You're reading it wrong.


Terms of Use
IV.3
(1) Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players.


Highlighted to show the definitive areas of the clause. If you still don't understand it, that is your problem. It's not open to interpretation.
Edited by Nimrod on 13/01/2011 16:00 GMT
Customer Service
Ahhh, this old chestnut. I do love the smell of forum debate in the morning.

Multi-boxing is almost a play style within itself, something that people enjoy challenging themselves with. But some victims of these mirror images sometimes become frustrated at their potentially inescapable nature.

The thing is, you cannot see this as 1 person, you have to see this as 5 characters. Regardless of who is controlling them or how they are being controlled, it is still 5 characters. The same 5 characters you may meet at any time, in any place in the World of Warcraft. Maybe those 5 characters are being controlled by one person, or three people, or five people. It's still the same 5 characters with their same strengths and weaknesses, same spell combinations and talents. If you met 5 Death Knights in a Battleground on your own, I'm afraid that you won't last very long (unless you are one thousand three hundred and thirty seven). If you met 5 Death Knights in a Battleground with 4 other characters, then it's going to be an interesting fight!

The emphasis is on the characters battling against these 5 to find a way to bring them down.

The fact that they are allegedly being controlled by 1 single human being is irrelevant when playing in a game like this as they gain no advantage at all over other characters, if anything they are at a slight disadvantage. As one person mentioned in this thread already, if we took action on multi-boxers then we would have to take action on all coordinated groups of players because they have an unfair advantage over the smaller (perhaps uncoordinated) groups of players they meet in their travels.

It's just not how this game works. I can see how this sort of behaviour would be unfair in other forms of gaming, but not here. Here it is fine for the time being.

Now, I am happy to leave this thread open for now. There's been some pretty good discussion in here and everyone has managed to keep a civil tone. So, please feel free to debate some more between yourselves if you feel the need. But I have to warn you that these 'Marmite' threads often become quickly de-railed and so we will be keeping a very close eye on this thread.
Edited by Natryndon on 13/01/2011 17:02 GMT
85 Blood Elf Mage
9280
while i can understand this point of view i don't agree to 1 person with 5 characters being equal to 5people with 5 characters.

Even with good coordination, when there are 5 different people the room for error is larger, when one person controls 5 characters, although he is at a disadvantage if he makes mistakes, by controlling 5 characters the tunnel-vision effect even in a 5-5 scenario can be to a certain extent in favor of the multi-boxer.

When there are 5 people, the time it takes to choose a target/communicate who to attack/cc is longer compared to one person pointing and clicking 5 characters at the same time.
By the time you have chosen your targets one, maybe even 2 people are already dead.

On top of that multi-boxing is generally found in BGs, meaning communication is difficult at times. In BG's it is often possible to not be met in an perfect scenario. Sometimes you are outnumbered, but if you are good enough you can still beat the opposition even if they're 5-3.
When faced with a 5boxer, even the toughest class becomes a piece of glass.

Its understandable that 5v1 will mean that you will die, it is however not understandable that you die before you can even move 2yards. By this I'm referring to BC/wotlk when ele shaman boxing was the way to go. With 5 dk's you get to move 5 yards before you die. Big change
84 Orc Shaman
2750
13/01/2011 4:23 PMPosted by Natryndon
The fact that they are allegedly being controlled by 1 single human being is irrelevant when playing in a game like this as they gain no advantage at all over other characters, if anything they are at a slight disadvantage. As one person mentioned in this thread already, if we took action on multi-boxers then we would have to take action on all coordinated groups of players because they have an unfair advantage over the smaller (perhaps uncoordinated) groups of players they meet in their travels.


You seem to have no idea how multiboxing works, if you compare coordination between players to macros and external software (like AutoHotkey) and sometimes even a hardware, that lets you automate everything across multiple clients and computers.

But ok, I will play your game. Now bare with me.

Remember the addon called AVR ? The one that let players to draw on the terrain in game ? You removed its functionality for two reasons, first was invasive nature, which is not important in this discussion (or is it ?). The second was, and lemme quote Bashiok:

The second reason is that it removes too much player reaction and decision-making while facing dungeon and raid encounters.


And thus, my question is. Does automated multiboxing over multiple characters, doesnt remove too much player reaction (or coordination between characters, as you kindly said before), and decision-making (again, across multiple characters, the player doesnt need to control each char directly) while PvP'eing ?
Edited by Abducted on 13/01/2011 17:23 GMT
90 Pandaren Rogue
10415
Only reason this is allowed is because the player pays for 5 accounts.
If they decide to make multiboxing illegal they will lose income and it would also be unfair to the people that have been allowed to do it for years.
1 Orc Warrior
0
13/01/2011 4:23 PMPosted by Natryndon


The thing is, you cannot see this as 1 person, you have to see this as 5 characters. Regardless of who is controlling them or how they are being controlled, it is still 5 characters.


Not to forget that it is 1 human player, paying for 5 accounts. $$$$$ > $

As one person mentioned in this thread already, if we took action on multi-boxers then we would have to take action on all coordinated groups of players because they have an unfair advantage over the smaller (perhaps uncoordinated) groups of players they meet in their travels.


How exactly does one single player doing everything on his own with a lot less organization and, well absolutely nonexistent teamplay and coordination(with other human beings) compare to playing together in a group? I really do not understand this reasoning.

The thing is, even if the result is the same, the 5 human player team has to work together, speak to each other and coordinate to achieve the same thing a multiboxer manages to do with the press of one single button.

Part of the excitement of playing together in a group is NOT being in full control but rather rely on what the other guys will do to help your side win.



Nobody would argue this if multiboxing was actually what you said - a challenge. But it is not.
You ever wonder why multiboxing only ever happens with really gimmicky burst specs that are able to pull off a guaranteed oneshot on a character, like elemental shamans (most popular probably) or frost dks?

When was the last time you saw 5 rogues multiboxing?



I mean I can understand the business perspective of it, I totally can but please dont patronize your playerbase. Multiboxing is griefing that is tolerated because there is money to be made of without it being a serious issue, since it is after all still quite rare.
We know that you know (that we know that you know, know what I mean?) :-)


85 Gnome Priest
9650
I don't understand why people are getting mad. :O

You can't kill 5 players on your own? omg!
Get 4 other players to help and you will destroy them easily.

Blizzard! I also want to be able to do the job of 5 people all on my own, why wont you let me solo heroics?!
Edited by Sáteda on 13/01/2011 18:00 GMT
1 Orc Warrior
0


[quote]The second reason is that it removes too much player reaction and decision-making while facing dungeon and raid encounters.


And thus, my question is. Does automated multiboxing over multiple characters, doesnt remove too much player reaction (or coordination between characters, as you kindly said before), and decision-making (again, across multiple characters, the player doesnt need to control each char directly) while PvP'eing ?


This is the very core of the issue.

If the "multiboxer" used his 5 sets of arms and hands to control 5 keyboards and watch 5 characters simultaneously on 5 screens, nobody would even start a topic like this. Now, that would be a challenge!!!
But alas a multiboxer doesnt, he is using extensive third party tools, hardware, scripts and macros to automatize almost all control of 4 characters, essentially controlling them through input given to only 1 character.

This is as close to cheating as it gets without us having to label it a cheat. Labeling it a challenge however is wrong on so many levels...
90 Draenei Shaman
1585
So, 5 brains got beaten by 1 brain?

The 5 of you must have very small brains ... or the 1 brain must be very big.

If you can't adapt then I have no sympathy for you.
90 Draenei Shaman
1585
The "very core of the issue" is that 5 people should be able to beat 1 person. If they can't then there is something very wrong with them, which is why they QQ on the forums.
1 Orc Warrior
0
Please dont try to turn this into a discussion about mental capacity.

If you will allow me to be as silly as you, your post is very indicative of the size of your own brain. let´s stop this right there and get back on track.
1 Orc Warrior
0
The "very core of the issue" is that 5 people should be able to beat 1 person. If they can't then there is something very wrong with them, which is why they QQ on the forums.


How could they? We are going to assume they are unorganized, just as unorganized as the multiboxer is in relation to the rest of the team (the part he is not controlling himself).

Take this chance to redeem yourself, since I just saw you are a multiboxer yourself, and answer honestly - why did you roll elemental to go multiboxing?

Because it is so challenging?

Or because any retard can make any target he wishes to, blow up with pressing 2 buttons? ( As long as he has the hardware and the needed software)
Edited by Exträm on 13/01/2011 18:23 GMT
1 Orc Warrior
0
edit: previous post deleted, didnt quote any...so sorry for triple post :)
Edited by Exträm on 13/01/2011 18:28 GMT
85 Gnome Priest
9650
13/01/2011 6:22 PMPosted by Exträm
The "very core of the issue" is that 5 people should be able to beat 1 person. If they can't then there is something very wrong with them, which is why they QQ on the forums.


How could they? We are going to assume they are unorganized, just as unorganized as the multiboxer is in relation to the rest of the team (the part he is not controlling himself).

Take this chance to redeem yourself, since I just saw you are a multiboxer yourself, and answer honestly - why did you roll elemental to go multiboxing?

Because it is so challenging?

Or because any retard can make any target he wishes to, blow up with pressing 2 buttons? ( As long as he has the hardware and the needed software)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7iG7ccunc is multiboxing that isn't just 1 burst class and 2 buttons.

The fact of the matter is that if you would have gone in with 4 other people at the same time you would have won, use defensive CDs when you get zerged while the other 4 people kill the leading one (which are easy to spot)
1 Orc Warrior
0
You will be dead before you can even pop your defensive CDs.

Yes, in an organized group you can do it but a multiboxer is not an organized group. Or rather he is, without the need for a group.

So by your logic the real measure to beat a multiboxer is to be a multiboxer.

That sounds just stupid.
85 Tauren Paladin
11145
13/01/2011 6:28 PMPosted by Sáteda


How could they? We are going to assume they are unorganized, just as unorganized as the multiboxer is in relation to the rest of the team (the part he is not controlling himself).

Take this chance to redeem yourself, since I just saw you are a multiboxer yourself, and answer honestly - why did you roll elemental to go multiboxing?

Because it is so challenging?

Or because any retard can make any target he wishes to, blow up with pressing 2 buttons? ( As long as he has the hardware and the needed software)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS7iG7ccunc is multiboxing that isn't just 1 burst class and 2 buttons.

The fact of the matter is that if you would have gone in with 4 other people at the same time you would have won, use defensive CDs when you get zerged while the other 4 people kill the leading one (which are easy to spot)


Unless the Multiboxer can figure out to control more than one character a time, it's not that hard, software have already begun supporting it.

I'm not generally against or for Multiboxing, i just don't like the idea of having to buy extra accounts to play like that, but the core root of this issue is that multiboxers have better coordination but poorer individual control(But that can be solved to some extent), on the other hand "singleboxers" have worse coordination(which can't be improved) but better individual control.
85 Gnome Priest
9650
13/01/2011 6:31 PMPosted by Exträm
You will be dead before you can even pop your defensive CDs.

Yes, in an organized group you can do it but a multiboxer is not an organized group. Or rather he is, without the need for a group.

So by your logic the real measure to beat a multiboxer is to be a multiboxer.

That sounds just stupid.


If one death grips you then you have plenty of time to react to it, they can't stealth so you even have plenty of time to see when you are about to get death gripped.

If you are such a disorganised group that you can't even attack someone at the same time as a few other people then multiboxers are the least of your worries.
97 Human Paladin
4640
13/01/2011 4:23 PMPosted by Natryndon
Ahhh, this old chestnut. I do love the smell of forum debate in the morning.

Multi-boxing is almost a play style within itself, something that people enjoy challenging themselves with. But some victims of these mirror images sometimes become frustrated at their potentially inescapable nature.

The thing is, you cannot see this as 1 person, you have to see this as 5 characters. Regardless of who is controlling them or how they are being controlled, it is still 5 characters. The same 5 characters you may meet at any time, in any place in the World of Warcraft. Maybe those 5 characters are being controlled by one person, or three people, or five people. It's still the same 5 characters with their same strengths and weaknesses, same spell combinations and talents. If you met 5 Death Knights in a Battleground on your own, I'm afraid that you won't last very long (unless you are one thousand three hundred and thirty seven). If you met 5 Death Knights in a Battleground with 4 other characters, then it's going to be an interesting fight!

The emphasis is on the characters battling against these 5 to find a way to bring them down.

The fact that they are allegedly being controlled by 1 single human being is irrelevant when playing in a game like this as they gain no advantage at all over other characters, if anything they are at a slight disadvantage. As one person mentioned in this thread already, if we took action on multi-boxers then we would have to take action on all coordinated groups of players because they have an unfair advantage over the smaller (perhaps uncoordinated) groups of players they meet in their travels.

It's just not how this game works. I can see how this sort of behaviour would be unfair in other forms of gaming, but not here. Here it is fine for the time being.

Now, I am happy to leave this thread open for now. There's been some pretty good discussion in here and everyone has managed to keep a civil tone. So, please feel free to debate some more between yourselves if you feel the need. But I have to warn you that these 'Marmite' threads often become quickly de-railed and so we will be keeping a very close eye on this thread.


I really dont care what you say, especially if its a load of text, not talking about the issue at hand, but some story about how it must be seen as 5 different people. As long as they are using ANY 3th party prorgam to multibox they are going agaisnt your ToS. So if you turn it left or right, it doenst amtter, they are in violation.

NO windows program allows you to send keyboard commands to multiple applications at once. No two programs can have focus in windows without help from outside programs.

Hence, they ARE using a 3th party program, and they are gaining un unfair advantage over other players.

Also, you are letting this treat get out of hand with your answer. a blue poster, allegedly working for blizzard, telling the players their should just ignore the ToS, as its ok to use 3th party programs.
Edited by Ambeon on 13/01/2011 18:38 GMT
1 Orc Warrior
0
If one death grips you then you have plenty of time to react to it, they can't stealth so you even have plenty of time to see when you are about to get death gripped.


You are DGed, strangulated, 10 X HB incoming. Dead. The moment you are deathgripped you have 1.5 seconds left to live...I would not really consider that plenty of time.
Edited by Exträm on 13/01/2011 18:40 GMT
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