Customer Service
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Edited by Nephadne on 22/01/11 23:27 (GMT)
Previous Spotlights
You are still welcome to post in any of the previous spotlights with your ideas or suggestions:
Raid Lockouts In this Spotlight post, we will be covering an in-game system that has changed rather drastically with the release of the pre-Cataclysm update – dungeon and raid saves. While the system did become more flexible, we still advise players to pay attention to a specific save you are about to accept. Do remember that the in-game support staff does not have a way to alter a save that was already accepted, nor do we reset accidentally accepted raid locks. |
#1
12/01/2011
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Customer Service
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Edited by Natryndon on 29/09/11 11:46 (BST)
Overview
The new raid lockout system allows you to defeat each boss at least once during the reset. To accommodate this, the instance locking system was completely changed – once you kill a boss in a raid instance or a dungeon that has a cooldown you do not get a specific ID for your own group, but rather – everyone present is saved to that specific boss. Therefore, you can continue the raid with any player that has already killed the same boss. Sounds confusing? Don’t worry, it’s actually not! Let’s take a specific raid example that most of you should be familiar with; You’ve successfully completed the Northrend beasts and the Jaraxxus encounters in Trial of the Crusader dungeon, but have called it a night. When continuing the raid on the next day several of the people that participated in the previous raid are not present and you decide to look for replacements. While previously you could only invite people that did not participate in killing any of the bosses in the instance, you can now also invite anyone that has killed just the Northrend Beasts, or both of the bosses that you have killed. These changes to the system allows for a more pleasant and less confusing experience for everyone. You will also find answers to some commonly asked questions in the post below. |
#2
12/01/2011
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Customer Service
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Edited by Tailyda on 21/01/11 19:14 (GMT)
Q&A
Q: Can I still kill a boss twice in both 10 man and 25 man versions? A: No, this is no longer the case. Since you can only tackle a specific boss once per week – the 10 and 25 man raids have been unified, and you can only participate in one of these for each individual boss. However, you can mix these two up as you wish. For example: You’ve killed Halfus Wyrmbreaker in a 25 man raid. You can then split the raid into two groups of 10, and both of these groups will be able to fight Valiona & Theralion and receive the appropriate spoils. After that you can still bring the whole raid back together to fight the Ascendant Council in a 25 man raid (or even invite other characters that have killed the previous two bosses in another raid). Q: So, raid IDs are gone now and aren’t used anymore? A: Not quite. They are still in effect in Heroic raid instances and function the same way as they previously did. Once you kill a boss on Heroic difficulty, you are assigned a raid ID save, and can only participate in this instance with people who have the same raid ID as yourself, or no ID at all. Also, bear in mind that you can’t switch between 10 and 25 man encounter modes once you already have a heroic instance raid ID. Raid IDs are not used the same way in normal modes, however, and you will still be asked to accept an instance save if you’ve joined a raid that is already in progress. But, you won’t be saved to it unless you perform an action that causes a save to the instance. Q: So, what actions save you to a copy of the instance? A: The most common one is obviously killing bosses in the instance. This always saves your progress in the instance, regardless of when you joined the group. However, there are certain other actions that will also save you to the instance without you having killed a boss. Such actions include, but are not limited to;
Q: You’ve not mentioned old encounters in previous examples. Does that mean that the new raid lockout system does not affect these old raid instances? A: Yes that is correct. This system is only for raid instances in Wrath of the Lich King and beyond. Q: So, since I can kill each boss once, I should be able to kill the last boss of the instance, and then finish the rest of the instance later? A: Not quite. Please remember that most instances still follow a linear path, and to be able to reach the last boss you will have to join a raid that has already killed the previous bosses. That means that you will have to accept their instance lockout, which will lead to you to not being able to kill the previous bosses of the instance. Q: What about winged instances? What rules apply to those? A: This is where it gets tricky. While some instances allow you to choose a specific boss you want to pursue, keep in mind, that these instances are still considered linear in the way they are structured. Generally, you will not be able to join up with a group, whose progress is different to your own in such an instance. Let’s take Vault of Archavon as an example. While you can fight any of the bosses in no particular order, the instance still has a linear progression path of: Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon -> Toravon. If you have only defeated Archavon, you will not be able to join a raid group that has already defeated Emalon, and neither will they be able to join your group. However, if you also defeat Emalon in your own group – you will be able to merge the two groups after that. As a rule of thumb, you will not be able to join a group that has defeated an encounter that you have not, unless you want to accept a raid lockout with a killed boss further down the linear progression path, if every boss down that path has been defeated. Q: So, what are these linear progression paths for the new raid instances? A: There currently are four raid instances, with only one of them being a winged instance. The current raid instances and their progression paths are; Baradin Hold
Please bear in mind that this instance will become winged once later content is released Throne of the Four Winds
The Bastion of Twilight
Blackwing Descent
Several things have to be noted about this instance. Initially you have a choice of either fighting Magmaw or the Omnotron Defense system, and the latter is considered the first boss of the instance. Therefore, if you already defeated the Omnotron defense system and want join up with a raid that has already killed Magmaw, that raid should also defeat the Omnotron Defense System before you can join them. After these two encounters you are once again able to select the fight you want to do next, but remember that Atramedes is considered the third boss of the instance, which can lead to issues with joining another raid group afterwards. |
#3
12/01/2011
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Customer Service
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Disclaimer
Once again, please remember that we do not have the ability to alter an accepted raid lockout, and we do not usually reset these lockouts for specific characters. Therefore we would advise you to be extra careful with the lockouts you are accepting, especially in winged instances such as Blackwing Descent. If you would like to offer feedback on the lockout/save systems currently in the game, please post it here in Raids and Dungeons forum; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874704/ However, if you have any support-related questions that are not answered in this thread, feel free to post them below. Good luck in all of your future dungeon adventures brave heroes! |
#4
12/01/2011
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I was beginning to wonder when the new Spotlights would come out - thanks for the informative post! :)
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Edited by Cliq on 16/01/11 10:21 (GMT)
Merging 10man and 25man raid saves.
This was a terrible idea tbh! It causes more problems than it solves. Sure the casual players are happy. But what about the people who like to raid alot? Say your a member of a raiding guild and on Friday you do Argaloth Halfus Wyrmbreaker Valiona & Theralion Twilight Ascendant Council Omnotron Defense System Magmaw Atramedes Chimaeron And your guild will attempt the other bosses at some other point in the week. You cannot go raiding with 10-man on off-raiding days, because if you kill a boss then you cant go on the 25man raid. You have not added any extra content, so what this update has effectively done is reduce the raiding content by half. Well done Blizz. You made my week a little less fun. Thanks alot. |
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Yes. Q: So, raid IDs are gone now and aren’t used anymore? You would all get the same raid ID from killing Magmaw HC, and then set it to normal for the rest. Anyone else who joined and didn't already have a raid ID would have to accept yours. |
Edited by Tailyda on 21/01/11 19:14 (UTC) Q&A HATE this change ! i want the old ways back to have 10 man and 25 man seprate |
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So here's my feedback. Currently, with your linear progress of non linear instances, which should be IN CAPITAL, BOLD, LETTERS ON THE RAID FORUMS INSTEAD OF SOME OBSCURE THREAD, if you do heroic tries on, say, Maloriak, and then switch some people out of the raid and kill Atramedes on normal, the people who missed Atramedes but were in the instance for everything else up until then will be unable to zone in the heroic version of the instance anymore. This includes summons, switching while they're inside on normal and any other combination of raid leaders, soft resets, relogs and whatever else you can think of.
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I seriously question the whole complicated system, especially when you look at how inflexible it is in winged instances. Blizzard should really consider using the normal mode boss locks for heroic difficulty as well. The whole splitted lockout system only came into play of some REALLY unrealistic fears it somehow might be exploited.
Also currently there are a few bugs in the system that can "lock" you to a raid ID even if you never actually killed a heroic boss like it happened to me today in Blackwing Descent. Hopefully they'll get fixed in next patch. |
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pro avatar!
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Edited by Deathnòte on 22/02/11 13:29 (GMT)
Hi, Same thing happend tom y guildmates yesterday. They started wednesday with BWD, done magmaw and omnitoron in normal, tried chimaeron heroic and then stopped the raid. The day after they continued in BWD with atramedes maloriak normal with 2 different people from the day before. After they defeated those encounters, they regrouped the 2 guys of the day before to continue to try Chimaeron Heroic. they entered the instance, gone in front of the boss and then switched to Heroic. Everyone was teleported to the entrance (with fresh new trash also -.-''') but the 2 guys which hadn't done the other normal bosses are in a different instance of the rest of the raid, so they couldn't do Chimaeron Heroic -.-'''' it's completly illogical.... they should be advertised to join the raid lock where the other bosses are done and it's ok, but why not try chimaeron heroic?!?!?! they have tried the day before -.-''' and why the could do in normal instead with the same raid ?!
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Almost exact same thing happend to us.. We did chimarion hc one day with x and y... then the other day we did atramedes normal without x and y.. then we switched to hc and invited x and y.. but now all the sudden they where on another hc raidlockout...
I got the explenation that If you kill a HC boss.. and then do a normal boss.. The hc raid id changes... That makes no sens at all.. Why is it like this? |
We had a similar thing happen with Magmaw. We spent last Thurs night progressing/wiping on Magmaw hc. On Sun night quite a few of our core team were off so we killed Magmaw on normal. A couple of the guys switched to alts for a chance at loot that would otherwise be de'd. After we killed the boss and folk logged back on to their mains we were unable to switch to hc again. The raid members who missed the Magmaw kill all got saved to the same raid id on Thurs when we first switched to hc, yet were unable to rejoin us. I really don't see the benefits of this system and find it to be nothing more than a nuisance. I like the idea of only being able to kill a boss once in a reset. Wrath raiding got really tiresome when you were running the same instance twice in a week. This system currently sucks just as bad however. Being forced to blast through things on normal rather than switch to 10 mans or as above switching to easy mode before going back onto hard modes is no fun whatsoever. |
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Customer Service
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Deathnòte and Scylei - Have a read of these blue responses on your particular issue:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1776392980#2 |
#19
17/03/2011
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Edited by Monopedia on 07/04/11 00:05 (BST)
This really can't be intended can it? It destroys guilds who have more than 10/25 raiding members. Swapping raid members is a huge part of a lot of guilds way of life, they need to do this to progress. I posted this in http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1776392980?page=1#5 but in that thread it also says to provide feedback here, so I have. |
