Hotfix 4.06 arcane mages - lower mana cost - no, no no!

90 Gnome Mage
6765
We are also looking at nerfing Aimed Shot, but compensating hunters through Aspect of the Hawk. We are also likely to lower Arcane mage mana cost in some way, which will in turn buff their dps. These don’t have those specifics just yet, but do keep an eye on the 4.0.6 hotfix blog for these and other changes as they come through.


Please don't do this devs. For once, please listen to all the feedback players have been giving you concerning arcane. Yes, the damage on a Patchwork fight is a little low, but this is not what is causing us to do half the damage of - for example - destro warlocks, shadow priests, and other speccs currently dominating the dps charts. To repeat all the feedback it's:

1. Lack of movement dps (this will get WORSE with lower AB cost as the time spent having to cast AB will go up! We are going to get more immobile!)
2. Lack of decent AoE
3. General brittleness of the arcane spec. One false step in mana management or AB stack dropping in a burn phase due to fight mechanics (get out of the fire) is INCREDIBLY punishing to dps. I found I could hardly complete a burst phase in Ascendant Council recently, I was having to move (or interrupt) just too often - I'd end up by being at 60% mana and being able to only get off two ABs before having to move again and dropping stack. Awful, awful dps ...

Suggestions range from:

1. Make one of our main damage sources castable in movement
2. A brand new AE damage spell from distance almost certainly isn't on the cards. Arcane Explosion range increased, Blizzard (permanently) buffed by an arcane talent perhaps
3. Increase the debuff time of AB. That way I can move when I don't want to die or wipe my raid and carry on spamming AB afterwards.

I know the real show-stopper here is PvP (particulary rated BGs), but please, please don't just put a band aid on arcane mages, listen to all the feedback from the people who really play the specc and are passionate about it.
Edited by Orcrist on 12/02/2011 14:24 GMT
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90 Human Mage
16305
I don't find either solution to arcane AoE good. Buffing AE radius would make it like demonology Hellfire pre-patch - aura of destealth-before-sap-range. Buffing Blizzard would be cool except... I'd prefer that arcane AoE is about an arcane spell :P
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85 Blood Elf Mage
2330
Maybe something like Scorch when talented?
Reduce the cast time of Arcane Blast slightly?
Or have a new ability like Scorch...

Those are my suggestions...
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90 Human Mage
16305
Spamming ideas :P

New spell: Arcane Awesomeness (NNF)
20 second cooldown
Empowers your next arcane spell to be more awesome.
Arcane Blast: Also causes its damage to enemies within 15 yards of the target
Arcane Barrage: Refreshes your Arcane Blast stack (does not consume it, duh)
Arcane Missiles: Does not consume the "proc buff", three charges
Arcane Explosion: Applies Slow to all affected targets
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90 Gnome Mage
6765
People, we have to be realistic here. We are NOT going to get a new spell in a hotfix! I don't pretend I know the best way to get the specc viable again, but it sure as hell isn't going to be a simple lower mana cost for AB. This is going to make us if anything more inflexible and immobile.

I for one would LOVE to get some sort of mobility into Arcane Blast, but I guess the PvP palyer base would scream about it.

I hate PvP :-(
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90 Draenei Mage
8030
Raid Fight mechanics are very much about movement in this tier of content, there aren't many where you can stand still that long, the current thinking shown by Blizzard atm is reduce spell costs, which does the opposite of what they originally intended for mages, where mana was a resource to be managed...

Some serious thought needs to be put into all 3 specs right now to make them more competitive in PvE and more balanced in PvP. Long of the short of it is a band aid won't work, and a major rethink is required.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5665
Dear Arcane Mages here! Since I've gotten totally fed up with Fire by now, could you answer please if Arcane DMG got any better since the patch? Or lowering the mana costs really did as little (or nothing at all) as I imagined? Thank you in advance.
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90 Gnome Mage
6765
The mana costs were lowered well before the patch! It made a slight, slight difference to dps in raids, as the real reason for epic fail in raids is - as often said - no movement dps and no AoE. Simple as that ...

I could probably pull 17K on a Patchwork fight (which still isn't brilliant) but on say Ascendant Council I am worse than gimp.

4.06 changed nothing for arcane.
Edited by Orcrist on 12/02/2011 14:36 GMT
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90 Human Mage
16305
12/02/2011 1:55 PMPosted by Orcrist
People, we have to be realistic here. We are NOT going to get a new spell in a hotfix!

True, but they are also not going to do anything more advanced than number tweaking :)
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the only plus side i can see to lowering the mana cost of the spells is that i can stack more haste and cast faster... so perhaps thats how blizz is looking at it but yes i agree it would be nice to have some kind of ability to move while casting or perhaps if they made the AB stacks take longer to wear off so we can move around alot and still continue our burn phases etc
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85 Undead Mage
4870
one way to buff Arcane AoE would be a talent to make a remake flame orb (Like bith other speccs have) to make it cast arcane explosion with maybe a 2sec interval instead of every sec, that might nerf it on singletarget but would still be worth casting everytime its off CD. It doesnt fix the mobility though.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
New AoE spell required. Movement phases damage increase required. Lower mana costs... useful, but not that much.

I'd change arcane missiles to be castable while moving.
Also add a long range AoE spell. Maybe something like typhoon from the boomkins (without the pushback), like a crazy arcane shockwave that would also scale with the stacks and consume them. Average no stack damage, high at 4 stacks (+ some way to stack the debuff on multiple targets, that would be awesome)
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90 Gnome Mage
8355
I just have one question really. I agree heartfully with everything thats been said above. I too have to spec fire in raids, and i really dont like it.

But it always strikes me, Blizzard must be WELL aware of all these issues arcane suffers from, right?

They know also know that lower mana cost only push the spec towards one button AB spam. And that dont solve anything, and infact just makes everything even worse in the long run.

So the question is rather, why dont we hear more about arcane developement?

There have been alot of good suggestions here in the mage forums. So are they dveloping some better solutions in secret? I cant for my life believe that a professional dev teams like blizzards arent on top of it.

What do you guys think?
Edited by Zimzalabin on 12/02/2011 23:38 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8475
1. Arcane missiles castable while moving,stacking to 2 charges like fingers of frost.
2. Presence of mind also gives 2 charges of arcane missiles.
3. Longer Arcane blast debuff.
4. Arcane missiles don't remove the arcane blast debuff(But they don't benefit from it either).
5.Arcane explosion benefits from half of the arcane blast debuff and doesn't remove it.
6.Arcane explosion applies slow(for like 2 secs like blizzard does) while arcane power is on.
7.One spell to reset arcane blast debuff(barrage) is all that's really needed.

This will give arcane a much needed mobility and a less no-brained 1 button rotation for aoe.
Also the metters will have significantly lower arcane blast contribution which is what we want.

Alas, no developer is going to read this so i put it here just to know what you think about it :P
Edited by Arnorra on 13/02/2011 01:17 GMT
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85 Human Mage
7545
all these ideas / solutions for arcane on the forums and all blizz comes up with (again) is: "we wil lower the mana cost of arcane spells which should increase dps"

makes you wonder if they even care...
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85 Gnome Mage
4295
13/02/2011 1:06 AMPosted by Arnorra
1. Arcane missiles castable while moving,stacking to 2 charges like fingers of frost.


Very, very good idea.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
tbh arcane needs both dps buff and movement buff... lowering mana cost would solve the dps problem but create another problem... that being shard of woe being absolutely ridiculous for arcane... which it is allready tbh

but yeah most movement that raiding has atm is like 3 second movement to avoid an aoe/cone effect and move back to original position.. so yeah arcane missiles while moving would sound nice.. its damage aint that huge atm either so it might need a small buff and arcane blast might need a small nerf in it damage.. i mean currently arcane blast is like 85% of all arcane damage, which will be a problem, when fight needs a lot of movement..
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90 Human Mage
15755
Whilst I understand that some might be frustrated with the current Arcane low DPS output in raids I would have to say that mages have always had a primary DPS spec for raiding, the end of Wrath was slightly unusual in that fire and arcane were both viable for end game.

All DPS classes have a spec that is significantly higher DPS than the others, if you are in a progressive guild then you will spec into that to min/max, if you are not then you have the choice of playing a spec you like or a spec that has theortically higher DPS. Its pretty difficult I think to get similar DPS levels in varying specs without those specs feeling too similar to play.

I think we have to accept that arcane is dead as a competitive DPS spec atm and that it is way down Blizz' s priority list (understandably I think). After playing arcane for most of Wrath I was quite happy to change. Time to move on maybe?
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90 Human Mage
9810
Well. Raiding specs change pretty much each raiding tier. Because the gear gets different and more powerful, and developers change both talents and encounter designs.

Raid Tier:
1: Frost
2: Frost
3: Fire
4: Frost or Fire
5: Fire or Arcane
6: Fire or Arcane
7: Fire
8: Arcane
9: Arcane
10: Fire
11: Fire

This is purely a list of my experiences on my servers and guilds. Not to be taken as facts, just my opinions.
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90 Gnome Mage
8355
Vav, I too believe were too low on their prio list atm. But why would they be happy with just one viable spec? I cant believe they would have 3 specs..and only one is really viable. Whats the point then of the others? To flavor the class?

To just make arcane ok (not best) would take them extremely little dev time..if they just wanted/prioritized it. And since they dont, im still wondering what the problem is.

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