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These are not things you can actually "disagree" with.
They are facts, and they can't really be discussed. Personal MMR doesn't make any difference, so you don't have to worry about it. That's all there is.
But I don't think I'm going to get this point across, so I think I'll leave it here. I'll be making a more extensive post about the subject this morning/early afternoon, but that has more to do with the exploit of getting higher rating than you should because of the system than the system dragging anyone down, because that second part is simply not the case.
Is Average MMR the mean value of all the personal MMRs or not?
Personal MMR is the Average MMR divided by 3, and nothing else. Some players just have different numbers, because they started at a different MMR, but the personal MMR doesn't "create" the average MMR like you would expect.
So it's the exact other way around of what you mentioned in the quote
Edited by Dalrian on 13/06/2011 10:11 BST
Its only a fact if you can prove it with flawless logic which I dont think you have.
Do you think my example of the 2 professional level teams playing each other is incorrect?
Again I really dont understand this statement. Am I being really stupid? How can your personal MMR be based off an Average MMR when an average is a derived number? The Average MMR has to be the 3 personal MMRs added up and divided by 3 - that would seem obvious to me and the only way it could possibly be.
Therefore the Average MMR is derived from the personal MMRs and if you play with someone with a lower personal MMR than you - you have just effectively lowered the MMR that you play at - therefore the team rating will suffer and the lower player cannot catch up with you so you have effectively lowered the MMR you play at permanently.
I'm this priest with the low MMR. I feel quite bad for my teammates that I played for fun at the start of this season in 3v3 because Priest was just not viable. But enough Q.Q about that. Because I wanted to have fun, wich this game is all about no? But so, I wanted to play with other mates and take it a bit more serious. But due the fact that we face 2.2k+ people and actually win over them most of the time quite easy. My mmr has gone up by 200 after 290+ games. One loss makes me lose like 20-30? A win gains me 10-19 or so. either way I lose mmr at the end, or I need to win like 100+ games in a row to come to their mmr. Please explain me the MMR system with like easy english terms since English aint my native tongue.
And answer this: My mmr 1600 now, I beat ppl of 2.2k mmr, My mmr stays low aint gaining much. How am I ever ment to get up so I can play the 'normal' way?
Edited by Etcetera on 14/06/2011 15:36 BST
Right so this is whats happened to my druid:
After the first mmr-reset in the beginning of the season I played 4 games with some friends that had just dinged to get some points for them. This did not pan out so well and we lost 4 in a row.
My mmr is ~1350
I then play 20 games and go 10-10. My mmr: ~1385 so far it looks ok
I now add 2 1500 mmr players 1 lock and 1 shaman the shaman had no pvp gear so we were supposed to get him some gear. We quickly hit ~1650 the first week and have now played 360 games @1850-2k or so but my MMR is still 1400.
Question is how long do I need to suffer for trying to help someone out in the start of the season? Forever it seems since it wont reset next season either. Guess that means improvement is impossible since the only one seeming to improve at a 50% win ratio is our shaman that is now 2.3k. This is also what caused the current and forth coming problem with mmr bugging. But thats a whole other topic.
This is obviously not a huge issue if you are playing with the same people over a whole season. But if I now for the new season I want to swap team, I say that Im experienced at 2k rating they add me to a 2k team and all of a sudden the team mmr is 1700 suffice to say that I wont get a chance to prove this to be the case...
I finally updated the guide for patch 4.2.
I also removed the message asking if you would keep discussions about abusing the system outside of this thread, but that doesn't mean that you should continue those discussions in here after all. If you would like to discuss the abuse of the system feel free to create a new thread, but this is an informative thread and not meant for discussion about who did or did not abuse the system, and what has or has not been done about it.
If that would be true, I'd be very happy, because that could be an indication that they made the change I was hoping for, where personal MMR wouldn't go up with an equal amount for all members, but where it balances itself out.
This is a change which would instantly fix all the exploits, so it would be very good if that was the case. I will do some testing on this as soon as possible, so thanks for reporting it ;)
Are you sure it was MMR though? Was it the number in the column all the way to the right that indicated a loss of 50 and a gain of 2 or was it somewhere else?
Nono im sure it was the mmr, i checked it at the end of every match in the right end side and noted it down after every match
We started with 2099 then 2101 then 2103 then 2105
And boom 2049 then under 2k...
Dunno wtf was that
We just got a new mate this season
Me and my old mate from last season had both like 2.4k mmr's
So what i think is our new mate has a low mmr
And the interesting thing is we only faced with teams about 1.5k mmr while we had 2.1k...
That could be an explanation already. Winning against a team with 1.5k MMR gives barely any bonus, while losing against such a team gives a very big loss since you shouldn't be losing against teams with that low MMR while being at much higher MMR.
However, there is another explanation I could think of, but that's going to take me a lot of time with maths etc, so I can't give you that reply right now :P
Until the, I'd stick with the theory that you only played against low rated teams which costs a lot of MMR, but I'll try to figure something else out. Thanks for the info anyway, it has been very useful ;)
I hope to get back on this later on.
Edit: I assume you did play over 50 matches in season 9 right? And did that third player also play over 50 matches in season 9? Because that could be relevant as well.
Edited by Dalrian on 13/07/2011 21:10 BST
Thank you too :)
Well i know playing with lower mmr'd teams make you lose so much and gain just a little but the interesting thing was we were only facing with 1.5k mmr'd teams all the time :l
Anyways thank you again :)
Then this story might come into effect:
It could make quite a difference as well. I just did some testing myself though, and found that after losing a match our MMR went up. This is starting to become quite interesting, but I'm very sure that something did actually change since season 9, which makes me very happy ;)
Really some nice info/tests
Something really had to change about mmr system and hope they've made the changes in the good way... Tbh i should admit im not happy losing 100 mmr on 2 loses :P But that might be cos of our new mate
I also did some testing in the past 2 days, where I played with someone with a fairly low MMR for a while. Previous to that I remembered myself being at about 1700 MMR, but after these matches my personal MMR ended up at 1759. We did win a lot though (11-7), and it could be that my personal MMR was at 1800 at first, so I will have to do another test to be more sure.
can i speed up the process of gaining mmr without getting a boost from high rated player? i think its stupid to win like 4 firstname.lastname@example.org then lose 2 and end up with lower rating than you were at the start. ie. we were at 1783 won 4 game in a row and gained 34 pts then in 2 games lost 39. and also we usually get t2 teams once even a 2.5k rated players that we beat and gain like 5pts.
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