Bronzebeard raiding

90 Night Elf Priest
11480

Making posts with info about bosses wont help people that much i think as raidleaders and officers *SHOULD* study the bosses (also raiders should do it ofc) and getting an own swing into it.

I'm not writing a boss guide here. Some of things just aren't immediately obvious and can waste quite a bit of time. Or perhaps, reading guides/watching moves makes certain aspects of boss seem much easier than they really are, so you focus on things that seem more intimidating, but are actually trivial.

For example, did you know that Holy Word:Chastise actually works on Sinestra? ;) That gives me 2 "decent" interrupts (with 5% miss chance) to use on Spitecallers - backup in case of lag/dc/mob spawning after p3 transition. Glyph of Dispel Magic works on Calen, too - though it doesn't really heal him for 3%, but it's still nice... assuming you do 2 egg phases, which we don't.
Also, remove your Holy Wrath glyph, untalent Hand of Gul'dan and don't use Spirit Wolves Bash. That stuff *doesn't* work... well, it does, but Indomitable > raid.
Life Grip > Squall Line is probably obvious. HoP > Squall Line, too, makes Phase 1 somewhat less annoying in tank groups, which always get Blizzard spawning on their head.
Mass Resurrection can be used during Spirit of Redemption - assuming you get out of combat in 5 seconds.

And on completely unrelated note - yesterday, Seafood Magnifique Feasts were despawning after 5-10 seconds. Dunno if it's just us, but it was absolutely ridiculous, racing to click the damn thing before it vanished.
Edited by Ailawiu on 22/04/2011 12:05 BST
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
3970
22/04/2011 12:02Posted by Ailawiu
And on completely unrelated note - yesterday, Seafood Magnifique Feasts were despawning after 5-10 seconds. Dunno if it's just us, but it was absolutely ridiculous, racing to click the damn thing before it vanished.


WEll it doesnt stay as long as the old fish feast but dont dissapear so quick.

Still, what i mean with study is, learn the basics of a boss. And giving your own swing into it and find a way for either yourself or ask to make things easier for you.

As you mentioned, Frost DK is pretyt usefull in some fights and almost a need.
Priests are 1 of the best healing classes atm, external CD's, good aoe heals etc.

Yet, you need all kind of classes / speccs to get things running. we doing a 10m wich is not that hard to get the right people, but yeah, people keep stopping, switching server, join other guild and what all other reasons you have.

But yeah, go english guild PF and you get server a bit more life in :)
Edited by Missholland on 22/04/2011 22:40 BST
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
3970
Ow yeah, and communication is tbh the main thing you should have with eachother in raids.

Talking with using CD's, when to use, what to do, switch or not switch, is essential when a raidleader lost his vieuw.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
11480

WEll it doesnt stay as long as the old fish feast but dont dissapear so quick.

Actually, they did. Been using them for weeks, yet yesterday they'd vanish right after being dropped. This *better* be a bug, not some silly Blizzard hotfix.

Still, what i mean with study is, learn the basics of a boss. And giving your own swing into it and find a way for either yourself or ask to make things easier for you.

Again, I'm not describing basics. I wrote few (polish) guides, and it's always boring stuff like ability lists, raid composition, placement. The obvious things. What people should care about, are 'what can wipe you and isn't blatanly obvious', or "save yourself some time and try X instead of Y". They'd find about it anyway, but probably after few (or not so few) wipes.
But yeah, go english guild PF and you get server a bit more life in :)
How does that help anyone? It hurts us, since most of us wouldn't feel comfortable speaking English. It hurts you, since we'd be stealing people from your gui... er, "recruitment pool". It doesn't help server, since it would still be one guild.

I dunno, maybe 4.2 will be better. T11 10 man balance was terrible, with tons of hotfixes needed to make heroic bosses doable. Maybe if they actually test that stuff before hand, and solve raid stacking issue, things will improve. Frost DKs are one of most blatant examples.
Reply Quote
1 Human Warlock
0

[quote]But yeah, go english guild PF and you get server a bit more life in :)
How does that help anyone? It hurts us, since most of us wouldn't feel comfortable speaking English. It hurts you, since we'd be stealing people from your gui... er, "recruitment pool". It doesn't help server, since it would still be one guild.

.


I dont wish to be rude but PFs as a guild are effectively in a bubble on this realm. You have the bare minimum of contact with the rest of the BB community unlike the other "top" guilds due to your recruitment policy. If it works for you great, but it doesnt help BB recruit X realm where the top guild doesnt recruit from its own realm population effectively.

Dont get me wrong im not blaming you for any problems BB might have (problems lots of servers have btw) but your guild doesnt help in the way that other top guilds do on other servers. Yes you might steal some players from Entropy or SoL or whoever but those players would keep in contact with their old guilds and filter down info that you have contained in your very useful OP.

As you said you are a selfish b*****d when it comes to your current recruitment, but why should the rest of BB care if they dont speak Polish?

And yes I am hiding behind a low level alt because I dont need the griefing I ll get from a some deluded fanboy. But Ive played on BB for years and never had more than passing interaction with PFs, unlike pretty much any of the other top ten guilds on ther server, be it a pug or simply buying an enchant off them. I do think its a shame that a guild that many on the server are actually quite proud of are so distant.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
16215
But... Why didn't any other, english speaking guild, take this position still? I mean, if we are such "bubbled" like you picture us to be, a spot for an "open, international, top-notch guild" is empty, isn't it? Awaiting for someone to pick it up. A guild which would make interactions, keep players rotation alive and so on and so on, all these things you described above. Why didn't you try it yet? Would it be too much love for their very own GM/officers powers preventing people from merging for a better squad and well... trying to take that 'realm first' status away from us?
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
11480
Yes you might steal some players from Entropy or SoL or whoever but those players would keep in contact with their old guilds and filter down info that you have contained in your very useful OP.

Like those are a secret. We don't hide our logs or movies, plus - unless there would be a direct competition for boss X - I don't have problems with sharing few things that work. What sort of interaction do you expect of us anyway? Some of our members puged quite a bit, but nowadays it's more complicated due to shared raid id, plus content is hard enough that you just want to take a break after 5 days, instead of doing something else. There's a thread about "late night pugging", go check that one, might meet someone of us there ;P
On the other hand, if all you hear on /w is "hey, can I join your guild" you really don't feel the need to "interact" more.
As you said you are a selfish b*****d when it comes to your current recruitment, but why should the rest of BB care if they dont speak Polish?

Man, I need to type /joke or /sarcasm after every single paragraph.

And yes I am hiding behind a low level alt because I dont need the griefing I ll get from a some deluded fanboy. But Ive played on BB for years and never had more than passing interaction with PFs, unlike pretty much any of the other top ten guilds on ther server, be it a pug or simply buying an enchant off them. I do think its a shame that a guild that many on the server are actually quite proud of are so distant.
So, uh, what kind of interaction do you expect from us? Selling enchants? Just /w someone, how hard is that. Pugs? There are barely any on BB, except for "BoT trash farm", which is hardly "raiding"(though like mentioned before, I'm not above some "late night raiding" if it starts off). Sure we didn't sell Amani Bears/ICC stuff, but then again, I still remember the @*##storm we got over MC epic run waaaaay back in SoL.
Reply Quote
1 Human Warlock
0
What I mean is your choice of recruitment criteria puts you in a bubble. Most of the top ten guilds have plenty of players that have been in the others at some point, thats not an option with you guys/gals.

And tbh im still not sure why you care what the other guilds are up to anyway?

24/04/2011 16:32Posted by Ailawiu
Man, I need to type /joke or /sarcasm after every single paragraph


There are more truths in jokes than you might think. But anyhoo thanks for the tips and sarcasm!
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
11480
Competition is motivating... and we didn't have any since Vashj.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Priest
10805
As well intended as your OP may be I think it misses the issue - which I believe to be far deeper than simple problems of skills/ knowledge - and I fear it may look a little patronising.

I should say I respect PF, splitting from SOL and forming shortly before TBC came out to tackle the reformatted raid content was an inspired move that most of the other current 25 man raiding guilds only followed months after. I mean jees only one guild has come close to you, and it was Profanity's somewhat abrasive and aggressive style that made their relative short lifespan as inevitable as their progress was fast. The organization and efficiency that you seem to have has carried on and on, never leaving any slackness for another guild to pounce upon.

I think that BB has got a big problem though and has become a victim of your success.

Sure the reduced/ soft/ wrathbaby player base effects guilds, I think its created a huge pool of players just below raiders who have an attitude of entitlement...who cares about working hard for progress when you can wait a couple of months doing heroics and farm Nerfed content shortly after.

I just think the issue is exacerbated because the top guild on the server, the only one that ever stands a chance of a server first is exclusively polish - and by the nature of this it does create a type of a bubble. I think this has destroyed any kind of competitive environment for everyone, not just PF. Without this competitive edge I think it breeds this pool of welfare players and a lot of people who do have the drive to excel, but aren't polish are forced to other servers. Conversly those who who are polish would be attracted to Pathfinders rather than other servers, so I think as much as you say it hurts you its widening the gap.

I don't agree you don't mix - I raided with Pathfinders a few times through MC and BWL in vanilla and have pugged with PF celebs like Mordant, Holymaul, Lifesinger etc in all expansions. Sure there's a lot of talented players in PF but not necessarily more talented than people ive raided with in SoL, Echo and of course the mighty Entropy - however theres a winning mentality that you guys have got that gives you a massive edge. Its almost accepted that you guys will get a server first and I think that means a lot of people consciously or subconsciously decide there's no point putting the effort in because they cant match you. I like my football analogies and id say its the same principle as Man Utd always beating Tottenham Hotspur even if the 2 teams have exactly the same talent (cough).

I'm afraid advising on certain bosses is going to do sod all to help that situation, I think the lack of competition/ opportunities for realm first/ inferiority complex just means the gap will widen and its little to do with skills or lack thereof.

Please don't say a new competitive guild should be created - its most likely to be Profanity all over again, guild mergers never work and it would compromise the existing established guild franchises which are so valuable. We don't get entirely new raiding guilds excelling, and on top of this I often get the feeling that the guilds who are doing well are held together and driven forward by old groups of friends from Vanilla/ TBC, and now more than ever once these people leave they cant be replaced, 25 man raids turn into 10 man raids and 10 man raids turn into casuals...... until top guilds transfer and alliance turns into the Horde (RIP)?

If PF simply didn't exist at the start of Cataclysm I think you would see other guilds rising far above their existing levels. I think it would give a competitive edge to existing raiders and create a larger player base of people looking to excel rather than existing raiders growing bored of a repetitive fight for second place, leaving the game or transferring. I wonder if SoL would have taken a break from raiding if there were competing for server firsts?

I think its harsh to say its Pathfinders responsibility to ammend the way they recruit but I do think this problem will worsen if nothing changes... and surely its boring for yourselves just reeling out the server firsts all the time.

Ive no idea if or how the problem could entirely be solved. A new competitive guild just doesn't seem likely to happen so I think the only solution lies within Pathfinders. Server transfer? Split the guild with one half containing more comfortable English speakers to recruit from a larger pool? Neither seems fair or reasonable.

I just don't think you can completely disregard suggestions such as recruiting non polish people should your good intentions for the server be genuine - it may well encourage more non polish raiders with a desire to excell to remain or move to the server expanding the potential base for other guilds.

I should say im not speaking on behalf of Entropy, these are my views alone. Im also obliged to say Khaine is great.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
11480
I don't have such far reaching ambitions as to "create competitive guilds". I'm not deluded to believe that our raiders are far above anyone else in this server - we're simply nicely grouped up in one place, whereas others are split. There's plenty of individuals here that aren't 'best X class on server" and won't be.

Going international would be a last resort, only to prevent guild disband. We considered this once, and that was during early TBC. Back then, we barely had twenty-something people and couldn't even get full team for our raids - first Maulgar kill was with 22 I think. The guild itself was barely few months old - and it's hard to consider late vanilla as "serious raiding for us". Think it was Magtheridon that pulled us through, turned out our progress wasn't nearly as bad amongst polish guilds as we thought. As such - nope, not changing, sorry ;) We do compete with other polish guilds, and even though it's cross server, it is pretty motivating.

The thing is, 10 man format should, in theory, allow people to compete "easily". There is a problem of terrible content balancing and absurd bosses, which made this impossible, but I believe 4.2 might change that. Ignoring wonky class balance and stacking, it is easier to get 10 "good" people and provide nice challenge. 'Course, it all depends on 4.2 PTR. Checking T11 beta threads, it seems quite a bit of feedback was ignored and tons of reported bugs made it to live servers. If they repeat that again, 10 man raiders will be screwed again.

I didn't really make this thread as "How Can PF Change Its Horrible Ways To Serve You" ;) Nor is it "Ailawiu Quest To Save Bronzebeard!". It's just few random things, that might perhaps let people get bit more progress before 4.2, get some more steam, and then provide some challenge in the future. Then again, it might not, who knows. I'm not going to change PF into international guild to solve other people recruitment problems, that'd be ridiculous.
guild mergers never work and it would compromise the existing established guild franchises which are so valuable.
And yet somehow going international would go perfectly well and be a magical solution, eh? :)
I've no idea what Profanity did wrong. They did get Vashj first, so at least some of it worked. So it is possible to beat us. Imagine that.
I just don't think you can completely disregard suggestions such as recruiting non polish people should your good intentions for the server be genuine

Old SoL members might remember that we were always a separate group from "main" guild, always sitting in Polish vent channel ;) In the end, that did cause few conflicts, so I doubt it would go any different nowadays. And that's ignoring that I'd be screwing people who joined Polish guild in the first place. I'd say people who I played with for years take priority, sorry.

E:
have pugged with PF celebs like Mordant, Holymaul, Lifesinger
Damn, you picked your celebs nicely ;) Whiniest Paladin ever, and a Warlock that's always afk when I explain tactics ;)
Edited by Ailawiu on 25/04/2011 02:39 BST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
16215
25/04/2011 00:44Posted by Tobermory
Please don't say a new competitive guild should be created - its most likely to be Profanity all over again, guild mergers never work and it would compromise the existing established guild franchises which are so valuable


Then do exactly what you expect us to do - pick the best players from other guilds, lure them with something their current guilds cannot offer them. Promise and give them a better progress than they may have now. Oh wait, you can't? Thent it's not a lack of player pool to recruit from being your problem. It's a lack of raid leaders with a passion to beat encounters, leaders with a will to spend their time to think about every tiny bit of tactics they gonna try, leaders with a courage to try things in a different way over and over again, if the tactics taken from community didn't work well for us. We just have such leaders. And do we speak polish, english or chinese, it will change nothing for other guilds unless their leaders start do the same.
Edited by Lauré on 25/04/2011 13:34 BST
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Hunter
11295
your saying the raid leaders in the other guilds are %@##? Thats a very general statement


id be careful, that bubble your in is getting bigger laure.


Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
16215
Whatever "%@##? " is supposed to mean, i'm not a PF raid leader and i don't pretend that i myself would lead anything in a better way than other guilds do. Even more, i've tried once and kinda failed on it. What i say is that maybe people too easy look for issues and explanations outside ("zomg, there are no players to recruit from!!!"), instead of looking at themselves with a little bit more of criticism (like "hum, what about i'd try to spend a bit more time to find a different way to beat this, if we wipe 10th day on it"). Since for now, this topic from "how to improve BB raiding" turned into something like "blame PF for that noone can establish a guild which could compete with them like equals" which isn't kind act either. Admitting that some raid leaders of some guilds may not be, lets say, a proper person in a proper place, shouldn't be offending to anyone (unless one has a problem to face own mistakes, ofc), it's quite normal that not everyone who tries to lead raids actually has a mindset for such a demanding task. Sure they may create an enjoyable atmosphere, but that's not what we talk about now.

And about the "bubble" - actually i have quite a few non-polish names in my friend list, people who aren't afraid of normal talk with one of these "horrifying PF". And i think i find our relationships quite satisfying for both sides. So, maybe again, try to start some interactions yourself instead of waiting gods only know what for...?
Edited by Lauré on 25/04/2011 14:52 BST
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
8155
Allthough Laure's wording is kinda rude he has a point. There's a world of difference between a good natural leader and a leader of convenience.

As for PF going international that's just some veiled qq from people who want to progress/get boosted but cant because they are not polish. A purely national guild never really competes with the rest of the server, they are a national enclave and as such will allways punch above their weight if they have gotten reputation for their outfit established.

The problem why the rest of the server cant pull their act together is Caesar's syndrome, "I would rather be first in a little Iberian village than second in Rome". Ego, safety, general apathy and social ties beat any potential promise of super progress. True achievers have left this server long time ago. Most other guilds consist of boosters (who stay for social reasons, funky schedules, w/e) and boostees (who are well chuffed to made it that far and socially integrate themselves strongly within the guild).

If we'd get one truly good and charismatic leader another competetive raid guild would be quite likely. Then again a good leader probably never comes or stays here because there are far better realms with superior source material in much greater quantity to work with. Those from vanilla can probably remember many a top guild built around a charistmatic and skilled main tank.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
10545
24/04/2011 23:10Posted by Ailawiu
Competition is motivating... and we didn't have any since Vashj.


Maybe you havent had any competition at all, but when other guilds beats you on some bosses you start going emo... Do I have to remind you of Poloney and yourself?
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
16215
Kamoolina
Allthough Laure's wording is kinda rude he has a point.

well, im afraid you must forgive me that, since i'm used to find issues / weak points and then use my time to think/speak about opportunities to improve, not to use this time to search for words soft enough to not to hurt anyone's e-peen. maybe that's because as a girl i don't have one and it's beyond my imagination to know how much it hurts you boys :> /sarcasm off.
Edited by Lauré on 25/04/2011 15:11 BST
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Hunter
11295
apologies cant write poo poo on forums.

Some may wish to blame pf laure but the majority of us have nothing but respect for yous, but do not underestimate the good recruitment you guys have, success breeds success, yous attract top players, the majority of the other guiilds dont.

As for interacting with you guys thing, i have been in 5 mans, done alt raids with some of your players many moons ago, thing is though, i dont really care if yous interact, and i dont really see why anyone else cares. I dont interact with many players outside my guild unless its recruitment or alt raids.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
16215
25/04/2011 14:58Posted by Wraithlord
Some may wish to blame pf laure but the majority of us have nothing but respect for yous, but do not underestimate the good recruitment you guys have, success breeds success, yous attract top players, the majority of the other guiilds dont.

Sure, this is how things may look now (actually there are polish guilds doing better and since they recruit from exactly same pool as we do, it doesn't look so good for us like you might think it does). But c'mon, PF wasn't born with it at a day zero. At that time they were nothing more but a bunch of players who - big words, but it damn fits - had a dream. And they made this dream real. So, don't say please it's not possible to do such a thing again, by someone else.
Edited by Lauré on 25/04/2011 15:17 BST
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Hunter
11295
and by them achieveing there success back then it has came on leaps and bounds laure. So much so its a very daunting task to try even keep equal progression let alone try challenge.

Sure we can all have dreams.


You guys ever try out bosses on the PTR?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]