World of Warcraft®

26/04/2011 19:07Posted by Soraýa

Except the Alliance and Vareesa Windrunner especially (even moreso after WotlK!) aren't their allies. The Horde are, and they're already helping one another. It's just another degradation of Horde integrity to shoehorn the Alliance into this plot.

True, true. But now you can hate on the blood elf general, that summoned her aid.

It almost sounds like you actually think Blizz is taking their lore seriously...

They don't, we do. We are annoyed because they don't.

Valid points, made me look twice at the trailer, but unfortunately this is the wrong place to have our concerns seen.
Perhaps it could be useful if Zaanjul or Adnaw made a post on the RP forums about this.
I would be interested to hear Blizzard's official stance/explanation on this.

The RP forums are still not enough, as it isn't an issue with RP but more with inconsistent lore.

Still, I have posted about about the issue both on the RP forum and in the Story forum as well - which is the more relevant forum.

Turns out there already is a thread on the story forums and it's just me being dopey.
No response as of yet, though.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874253835

I'd love to see Red Shirt Guy ask them half the amazing points you've pointed out during Blizzcon 2011. They'd probably die on the spot. Or respond:
"We're gonna get that fixed..."

Mother of god. My mask is missing!

26/04/2011 19:34Posted by Nehran

Perhaps it could be useful if Zaanjul or Adnaw made a post on the RP forums about this.

26/04/2011 19:36Posted by Nehran

Turns out there already is a thread on the story forums

In fact, there are a half-dozen threads on the subject on the story forums [and I've managed to contribute to almost all of them], and these concerns were also noted in the ZG and ZA feedback threads in the PTR forum.

The closest we've seen to a response is that after the initial posts regarding the turn-around for the Zandalari, Blizzard released the information citing a new prophet named Zul - prior to that post, the reference was on the PTR to Rastakhan being the troll behind it.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874253835?page=3#49
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874251988#12
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1820954311?page=4#73
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1917903474#18
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874253835?page=2#29

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en-gb/forum/topic/1874670952#7

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en-gb/forum/topic/1840264318?page=2#35
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en-gb/forum/topic/1840304272?page=3#49

Reusing classic dungeons and make random faction suddenly go evil.

Never change, Blizzard.

Well, I don't know about you but I see an oppertunity here for cross-faction RP of somesort. Atleast I'll try with my guild to get a connection with the Darkspear Tribe.

I'll try to adress the various things posted about in this thread, but please forgive me, if I miss something, or confuse some facts due to not remembering everything. ;)

Also, disclaimer: Please have in mind, that I only know, what was on MMO-champion and in the trailer for now, not playing the game after a patch yet, so might have some facts and stuff wrong. (and the usual, my memory may fail me)

Anyway, here goes:
1) Vol'jin and Darkspears not leaving the Horde after his conflict with Garrosh - I think the reason is two part, the Vol'jin's chat with Thrall and an oath is one part, but the fact, that surviving on their own would be much harder (especially if the Horde would treat them as enemies from there on, and attempt to wage war on them) is the other.

2) calling Horde "his people", brothers, and whatnot - the way I see it, Vol'jin, cunning troll that he is (supposed to be?), could have been lying to the Zandalari representative (whoever he was), presenting the Horde as one strong body, able and willing to oppose the new alliance of trolls, and the "war on the whole world" that they will bring. (and the whole siding with Gurubashi affair, and following that, Hakkar)

3) getting help from the Alliance - I assume that Vol'jin also wants to be a good leader for his people and their survival/well-being, and that sometimes means temporarily putting aside your hatreds for the sake of the world in which both races/factions live (it can also be the influence of the earlier Zandalari "teachings" before their "face turn"). That possibly wouldn't stop him from stabbing the Alliance in the back afterwards, assuming they are no longer needed. In short, politics, and "gray and gray morality". (read: nothing being inherently "Black" or "White")
Tough it sure might lead to some "disagreements" with Garrosh.

Oh, and also, the Darkspear emissaries aren't probably making deals with the Alliance as the political body, just recruiting "heroes", that have the "tradition of saving the world" and "killing various Big Bads in the process".

4) various holes in the plot - no doubt they are there, but as (I think) Tsathoggua posted, they let us build some more RP on them, and fill them up, instead of being forced on some fixed path.


As for what my characters will do - for Zargh, I'd rather not say it yet, as he will probably be involved with Adnaw's plot of separatists (and he knows her character that will take part in it), so I don't want to put any spoilers here. (as Adnaw said she'd rather not know in advance)

Ziyambe, being fairly "good" character for a troll (though something close to True Neutral I think, if using AD&D alignment system), and being supposed to be quite smart and cunning, will probably stick to Horde too (as she isn't likely to side with Hakkar etc either, even though her knowledge on the subject is more limited than Jungle trolls might have), plus submit to the will of her chieftain (Revantusks have no reason to leave it, and I doubt Blizzard will even bother to make up any story about them - plus their village is the only Horde quest hub in Hinterlands, meaning it highly likely stays), and be able to put whatever hatred for the Alliance she may have aside (and/or hide it well), if the situation calls to really cooperate with them for now.

Reusing classic dungeons and make random faction suddenly go evil.

Never change, Blizzard.

Someone needs to burn Metzen's pen. With a gas burner, if need be.

The appearence of the Alliance is, like basically everything these days, lore made to fit content. It may not make sense, but that's not what matters - getting rehashed old content out the door does.

As far as I'm concerned, it makes absolute zero sense for the Alliance to be even remotely interested in helping the Darkspear. If the Darkspear are going to war with the rest of their Empire, great, it keeps the Horde busy. Let's wait and see who wins, then gank them.

However like most lore this expansion, it's put up to explain content and not the other way around.

The plot they work on however would more be. "If the Horde fails, the Alliance would be next." And that is how they work these plots into eachother. :P

The patch in itself is too lazy for the lore to be an outrage. It's just icing on the cake.

Frankly on my part it comes down to Blizzard to decide if we're neutral super heroes that adore going around the universe and saving it from evil, ala D&D style, or if we're a bunch of faction cheering nut jobs who like ganking the other team. You can't be both, not in the middle of a full scale war. The joke that is letting orcs into Hyjal is evidence enough.

Like I said, lore has become a plot point to explain content and nothing more. Quests like http://www.wowhead.com/quest=29324 only prove to reinforce that.

Well the druids and the sentinels do not have the same views on things. Ecspecialy not when they are under such a big threat. (Like back in warcraft 3) They'd summon aid, in fact it's kind of generious of Garrosh to agree. But he looks on the druids another way, than on the sentinels.

Also I don't think he wants more problems with the druids, after that meeting Hammul (Hamuul?) had in Ashenvale.

And also it's selfish by the druids, to summon the aid of some that their "sister force" sees as a hated enemy. But well...

The mechanical content of the patch itself is good. The effort that was put into Zul'Gurub should've been put into the next tier of raiding but oh well, it's Blizzard's decision. There are still a few bugs but at least all you can accuse 4.1 of mechanically is being lazy.

The lore is the real abomination. Completely half-arsed. I'm already giggling at the trolls in Stormwind City.

Druids and Sentinels having different views is one thing. Inviting the faction that is currently killing their children, relatives and buddies in Ashenvale to Hyjal is just down right absurd. You can seperate the two parts of Kaldorei society, but they're still the same race. They're not mutually exclusive. Families include both.

Near half of Ashenvale has been consumed by orcs, do even think that civilian casulties were not ridiculously high is lunacy. Why Cenarius hasn't turned around and started playing squish the orc is only answerable with one thing - they need him neutral for the next tier of raiding.

Regardless, Blizzard have come out with some wonderfully interesting plot twists over the years. However this piece of content simply comes out as lore used to justify random dungeon upgrades. Why in the name of all things holy is miss baby producing High Elf, hater of all things Blood Elf, visiting Silvermoon.

The RP forums are still not enough, as it isn't an issue with RP but more with inconsistent lore.

Still, I have posted about about the issue both on the RP forum and in the Story forum as well - which is the more relevant forum.

I've even had Amercians try and alert Blizzard to the problem with the previously referenced Darnassus fishing quest. It got utterly ignored, they're interested in getting content out. Not fixing lore.