Ask the Devs #6 - Guild Advancement - Answers

The answers are in from our last installment of Ask the Devs. Please keep in mind that each edition of Ask the Devs is focused on a specific topic, as noted in the thread title

The guild perks system makes it unnaturally hard to start a new guild, since a guild without all perks is at an obvious disadvantage in recruitment. In addition, it rewards just recruiting random people (who might only care about the perks) to get guild XP. What are your thoughts on this? Will it be addressed? – Lolisa [Europe, English], Mith [North America]

    We knew when we decided to add guild features for Cataclysm that this was one of the risks. If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild. On the other hand if they are too powerful, then you feel shackled to your old guild, even if it's not a healthy relationship for you. We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power, and we let you keep any rewards you earn if you ever have to leave your guild. The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks.

    We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.

    On the other hand, there may be some benefit to having less churn on starting guilds. Before Cataclysm, some guilds would get started halfheartedly and then crumble again after a few weeks or months. Maintaining an active guild asks a lot of the guild master and leading officers. If you join an established guild in Cataclysm, hopefully it will continue to be around for awhile. But because of reputation, even brand new guilds may seem like a more serious option than they were before Cataclysm, since the founders of the guild know that anyone interested is likely looking for a long-term home and are not just hopping from guild to guild.



Leveling guild speed varies depending on the amount of players. Have you considered tweaking the system so that guilds with fewer members get more experience per player and bigger guilds get less to even it out? Are there plans to allow smaller guilds to level their guild faster? – 信蜂 火星小喵喵 [Taiwan], Sergan [Latin America], Jardar [Europe, German], Паладиа [Europe, Russian], Amasisa [Europe, Spanish], Shory, 부너맨/노대현혹, Meltdown, 치킨아고마워/유진님 [Korea]
    Guild Challenges coming in patch 4.1 are designed to help address this issue. Obviously we already enforce a cap on the amount of XP that can be gained per day to keep the disparity from being too large, but it’s clear that smaller guilds still need some help. We'll monitor the impact of Guild Challenges and see if any further changes need to be made.



Are you planning to address the issue of Guild Leaders mass kicking members, once the guild reaches level 25? – Bloodbliss [North America], Юхани [Europe, Russian]
    We don't really have any interest in controlling who a guild leader chooses to kick, or when. Guilds are fairly transparent and simple player-run groups, and we have to be extremely careful about what systems we implement that impact how people can operate their guilds. We could absolutely make it more difficult for guild leaders to kick their members, and that might help very slightly with these situations, but the result would actually be that guild leaders would just be much less likely to invite new members. We want people to be in guilds, as opposed to making guild masters afraid that if they invite someone they may never be able to kick them if they don't work out.

    Allowing players to keep some level of guild reputation is an option we can look into to help with this situation, though.


Is there any way to recover a guild which is deliberately disbanded by evil account hacker or lunatic guild leader? – 哇靠不是吧 [Taiwan]
    The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.


Are we going to see guild houses someday so we could finally get a special gather place for the guild, to meet and interact easily? – Ellidryl[Europe, French], Греланд[Europe, Russian], Ledieri [Europe, Spanish], Bodywreckér [North America]

    Guild housing is something we have discussed many times. It would be neat to have a place for people to hang out, but every time it has come up as a possibility we don't think that is worth the amount of time and resources it would take to implement (and do it right). This is one of those features where if we ever decided to do it, the benefit would have to outweigh other content we could be working on. Also, we don't feel that we need any new ways for players to hide themselves away. If possible we at least like people to be hanging around in the cities, if not out in the world. We know that many guilds, despite lack of official guild housing, have designated meeting locations throughout the world, which we think is really cool. If you don't have one yet it might be something to explore.



Why is guild experience capped daily instead of weekly? – Omegal [North America], Nuckels [Europe, English]

    We implemented a daily cap so that more players get a chance to contribute every day. A weekly cap would make this more difficult since a guild might hit the cap the first day, leaving no experience for the other members to gain over the remaining 6 days of the week. If you could only login on Thursday, and the cap was always already hit before you could log in, you might not be as interested in this whole guild progression thing.

    However, we will be reducing the impact of the cap as we move though the Cataclysm patches. We will most likely start by increasing the daily cap, and removing it from more of the higher levels.



Why isn't guild XP from quests a factor of character level, quest difficulty, and intended quest level, instead of being derived directly from XP gained? Why is guild reputation so hard to gain before level 70? It feels as though it's harder to gain reputation with your guild at the beginning and easier as you gain levels; shouldn't it be the other way around? – Atun [North America], Threshold [Europe, English], Helíana [Latin America]
    The experience gained from a quest is directly related to all of these factors, which is why we use it as a basis to reward guild experience. Clearly this value is much smaller at lower levels and we know that this does not feel great with the current tuning. We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste. Guild reputation suffers from this same multiplier issue too, and when we tune the experience the rep gain will be improved as well. Rep gain will also be much improved though in patch 4.1 with the introduction of the new guild tabards, and increased values on clearing dungeons, raids and winning arenas and battlegrounds.



It seems that the new guild system is killing off the Pick Up Group culture in KR. In KR, raids were generally done through PUG and players did not care what kind of guilds they joined for raids. Can we expect more localized guild features to support the unique raid culture of the Korean region? –밥상의달인, Jeran, 블러드베인 [Korea]
    We will continue to pay close attention to and work to protect the various in-game cultures in each region. However, we don't have plans to change the structure of the system at this time.



Are there any plans to allow for easier alt access to the same guild rewards as someone's main character? Perhaps some kind of +rep item that is BoA and can only be bought by an exalted character? [i] – Serule [North America], Xheevas [Europe, French]
    This is one of the main reasons 4.1 has new guild tabards with 50/100% bonus to rep. We made sure to place these at friendly and honored so they would be easy to obtain by alts. We are considering adding an even larger bonus to an exalted, BOA version as well. Great minds think alike!



Will there be additional levels of rewards for those guilds that have reached the cap in future patches? Are you going to add levels beyond 25? [i] – Sergan [Latin America], Carnesîr [Europe, German], Zippi [Europe, English], Gabän [Europe, Spanish]
    Yes, we will continue to add rewards to the system as necessary. A great example is the guild reward we intend to add in patch 4.2 for guilds that obtain the new legendary staff. Guilds at level 25 also get the benefit of large gold deposits for completing Guild Challenges. Capping the guild system at level 25 felt right for the amount of content we wanted to provide in Cataclysm. We designed the system with expansions in mind, so raising the cap is something players will most likely see down the road.

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90 Blood Elf Priest
11405
So many excellent questions left unanswered :-(
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4 Human Warrior
0
" then there is no motivation to join a guild"

There is still no motivation to join a guild, it contains people - and people are jerks.

Oh well.
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85 Gnome Mage
5120
disappointing answers
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33 Human Mage
120
the guild tabards will go nicely i think, ive heard a lot of people ask about it :)
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75 Draenei Shaman
1280
Ohh dear this is one of my fears that they seem to be loosing interest with intreracting with the player base and not answering the questions asked but more like skirted around the topic raised.

I can see why soo many people have moved on to other mmos etc...
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64 Worgen Warrior
720
Ohh dear this is one of my fears that they seem to be loosing interest with intreracting with the player base and not answering the questions asked but more like skirted around the topic raised.

I can see why soo many people have moved on to other mmos etc...


rift *cough*
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85 Goblin Priest
3925
They seem to have missed the point that guilds have become anti social and hollow. The question answered first was reworded and asked the most by loads of different players, and it's a genuine concern that players have.

To remain competitive, you DO need the latest perks. I was thrown out of a raid because I happened to be near the raid entrance, but didn't have access to the 'Have Group - Will Summon' perk. That's just one example.

The guild system encourages mass guilds of hundreds of players, regardless of how friendly or interactive they are. This defeats the purpose.

I have had fantastic experiences in guilds, and have met some life long friends who I'm in touch with regularly. However, Blizzards attitude to guilds now solidifies what I've been considering - I will just quit.
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85 Night Elf Death Knight
3600
Edit: My bad, this was supposed to be in reply to Saynt.

If a raid leader kicks you because you don't happen to have a certain convenient guild perk (Like mentioned), you don't want to follow that raid leader.

You cannot hold Blizzard responsible for what you encounter through social interactions on the internet, even if it's their controlled environment. Sure, they can motivate you to stick to your guild like they did, but they're not telling the guild members to be anti-social. Like you said, you sometimes meet gems of people that you don't want to let go and that feeling is mutual.

The guild system currently indeed favors the idea "More is more and less is less", when you're solely looking at the guild experience progression that is. Blizzard's employees did state (And I agree) that inviting random people around the clock every day will have a great chance of the guild turning into an anti-social environment.

"Blizzard's attitude to guilds", could you perhaps explain what you mean exactly? The system introduced, like mentioned above, encourages inviting a lot of people, but also encourages people to stay in the guild and contribute to it. Sure, some don't care and are just in it for the perks, but a guild leader that cares about his/her guild will at least make sure he/she [the "leecher"] will not mess things up in the guild.

If you join (semi-)hardcore guilds you will mostly find people that are strong-willed into progression, but not so much on social (As most of their time in the game is already focussed on getting the most of their character/role/leadership). Maybe you should try joining a social guild that tends to take "baby steps" towards raiding, meet new people and see if you can bond? Or ask your existing friends to start a new guild together?
Edited by Celaste on 28/04/2011 03:27 BST
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85 Goblin Priest
3925
The point was it's now much harder to create a social environment In a guild.

Perhaps my example was a bit subjective, but I just wanted to point out how extreme things can get here. Much more likely, people who aren't in a high level guild will be at a disadvantage when farming, levelling, or instancing. Poorer than other players as well.

It's all well and good for blizzard to say that they still encourage social environments, but this new guild system, as they even admitted, doesn't encourage that! And yes, I can hold blizzard accountable for designing a system which rewards anti social 'add as much as you can' behaviour, it's their system!
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85 Tauren Shaman
5495
Why in a retrieval system, guilds is not possible to post your ad to the Guild Master can view the announcement and include filters to the desired people?
I expect that will be easier to find a guild, rather than choose one of them. By the way information about the guild as a few or no filter on the comments.
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85 Tauren Warrior
7680
For some unknown reasons United Nations achievement screwed up after 4.1. We had 54/55 rep before patch and now it is 46/55. You still did not answer who has which achievement and how is it possible to lose 8 exalted reputation after patch?
Edited by Baelros on 28/04/2011 14:41 BST
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85 Dwarf Hunter
5675
28/04/2011 14:41Posted by Baelros
For some unknown reasons United Nations achievement screwed up after 4.1. We had 54/55 rep before patch and now it is 46/55. You still did not answer who has which achievement and how is it possible to lose 8 exalted reputation after patch?


There are simple work arounds.

My guild has a forum, and on that forum everyone who had a rep not struck of the list was asked to post and the ticks struck off.

If your having them problems, I would advise doing that =)

And if you don't have a forum or anything, get one! you can get free websites and stuff from freewebs atleast.
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85 Goblin Rogue
4455
An interesting insight into planned guild-related changes. My main difficulty was gaining guild xp and rep at lower levels, but that's been addressed. Thanks =)
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85 Gnome Warrior
0
Guild Housing would be amazing....I've seen it suggested so many times and it works sooooo well in many other MMOs, so don't give us the "it's not worth the time and effort" excuse...because it IS worth the time and effort! I just want somewhere to hang out with my guildies that's not already crowded with hundreds of other noobs =(
Edited by Zandorr on 29/04/2011 12:17 BST
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85 Goblin Death Knight
1930
Im an gm and it is hard running the guild but its nealry lvl 10 and i cant log on
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MVP
85 Gnome Priest
13245
29/04/2011 12:16Posted by Zandorr
I just want somewhere to hang out with my guildies that's not already crowded with hundreds of other noobs =(

There are plenty of empty buildings throughout the zones that never gets visited by any players, and thus make out for ideal "guild houses".

Just pick any building in the Stormwind Mage District for example, barely anyone ever goes there.

Point being, in terms of a need for places to hang out, then there are plenty. Most people "hang out" in the Trade District in Stormwind or outside the AH in Orgrimmar. That leaves the remaining 99,99% of the world pretty barren, and ripe for the taking if you need a place for your guild to hang out in peace.
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85 Night Elf Death Knight
8040
I have a suggestion regarding the guild perk system. Consider that there are perks that make raiding a little easier and there are perks that make it invaluable to have.

For instance, Mass ressurection is a shiny perk. It can be used regularly but is hardly necessary for a new raiding guild to compete against an established raiding guild.

The cauldrons though are totaly different. These should be available almost straight away for the lower levels cauldrons at least, and should not take a guild long to get them. For me our guild provides free flasks per raid due to us having the benefits from cauldrons and i find it so much better than providing my own flasks. But i feel sorry for new guilds that start and can't even use a cauldron, even though i can use it for them should they inv my alt to the raid. This is doubly better when you get ALL the perks for cauldrons ( extra time limit on flasks, and bonus flasks per cauldron ). Considering a fair amount of players struggle to get large sums of gold without alts and high profs, or a good in game knowledge of the AH markets, these realy pay off in dividends.

Realy should shuffle the guild perks and put the core raiding perks much lower down the guild perks tree, and the less consequential perks that are purely for the shiny factor, way up there.
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85 Night Elf Priest
2715
27/04/2011 17:14Posted by Draztal
Guild housing is something we have discussed many times. It would be neat to have a place for people to hang out, but every time it has come up as a possibility we don't think that is worth the amount of time and resources it would take to implement (and do it right). This is one of those features where if we ever decided to do it, the benefit would have to outweigh other content we could be working on. Also, we don't feel that we need any new ways for players to hide themselves away. If possible we at least like people to be hanging around in the cities, if not out in the world. We know that many guilds, despite lack of official guild housing, have designated meeting locations throughout the world, which we think is really cool. If you don't have one yet it might be something to explore.


It isn't worth it? So you prefer to have players standing in SW/just outside and Orgrimmar/just ourside? LOL!



Anyone got a link to Rift?
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85 Tauren Druid
5995
I wouldn't go from WoW to Rift if you paid me... Unless it was a lot of money. Even for this tiny trivial idea of "Guild Houses". I think honestly the idea is pretty awful as it will only create (as said) more places for people to hide away, this will almost destroy the idea of raiding a city for it's prizes of titles for killing leaders etc. Because no one will be there to defend it! Blizzard have created hundreds of empty buildings all around the World of Warcraft maps and they would be "lucky" to get entered by one player a day normally.

Also if you think about it, the number of guilds WoW has, adding a specific area for each of those guilds as well as all the current land is going to be difficult to get around and every time someone makes a new guild house, it's going to need more memory space on the servers.

Yeah the simple idea may be fun at times, but thinking into it, I would hate it! It's just bringing on thoughts of Tabard customization/creating all over again!

As for people leaving for Rift, as we can see Rift hasn't got nearly as many amazing aspects are WoW as. Remember the old World Events? Remember Rifts last World Event... You pay for a great service with regular updates and customer service. The only thing I can see about moving to rift from WoW, is that you get the chance to start a new account and level all over again starting with nothing... Seems like a waste of time to me. But that's not the point.
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