World of Warcraft

I've been away from the game for some time.. one month or so.. and before I made the break I already saw a bit of "desertification".
That same desertification had increased for like 4 times when I went back (some days ago).
The trade channel is almost dead, the same goes with economy and that affects raiding ofc.
I even asked for a GM help on this topic, to try to see what would be the best course of action.

I then wonder if it would be possible for the blues to try to reach someone who could look into it and try to make something work out of the server, for it to become more enjoyable, like putting a free migration on it, or something like that.

I am glad to see that some other ppl share the same thoughts and concerns about TVC.

This Realm was never full on ppl but recently things got out of hand. I witness many players transfering to other servers due to lack of activity. Some of the "old" and "hardcore" guilds are either disbanding or forced to mass migrate. Same goes for individual players. At the same time i get the impression that no new players join the server. There is a decent amount of low lvl chars but most of them are actually alts of current players. The few existed RPers have been driven away. Many dedicated hardcore players left to conquer high-end encounters in more populated and established servers. Even outdoor PvP is slowly dieing.

Fact is that some of the ppl who have been playing this game for the last few years have got tired and they need to either take a break away of it or quit once and for all. This is something that we can't do anything about and we have to deal with it. However there should be something we can do about the server's desertification. A free migration to TVC or a server merger under certain conditions would be a solution (this is a PvP server and personally i would like to keep it like that).

On the other hand i guess there should be some ppl who enjoy the "peace" and calmness of the Realm but i would like to think that those are just a minority.

Some of you may be wondering why don't the ppl like myself who are a bit frustrated with the current stauts don't transfer to other servers. Personally i have made many friends here during my game time and i wouldn't like to leave. Therefore i am trying hopefully with your help to revitalize the almost dead TVC.

Blizzard allows server transfer. They make money out of it. And they should do. Blizzard is an enterprise and as such they need to focus on profit and the quality of their products which i find very satisfactory. However there are several moral and personal factors that disencourage many of us to procceed in a server transfer.

So in conclusion, what are the plans of Blizzard regarding TVC? Are you willing to take some actions towards the "colonization" and rebirth of the server?

TVCers this is the time for you to speak. Share yout thoughts. Thank you.

Realms are like economies, they go up, and they go down, but certainly The Venture Co is being hit hard, and things are not going to get easier. There is much talk of some of the bigger guilds disbanding, stopping PvP / PvE / RP & mass-migrating.

With summer hitting, at the same time as 4.2 we'll see even bigger losses. 4.2 isn't going to be any easier then 4.0.1 and with less content to contend with, and the option of a social life now available to many due to the nicer weather, The Venture Co is going to suffer badly.

However, I don't see this as a huge problem, while recruitment can be difficult, it is far from impossible, but people need to break out of the old "Mindset". People recruit and handle recruitment as a Full Realm, with Applications, long trial periods and more. People need to think out of the box and handle their guilds with a dwindling population a little better to survive.

This isn't a personal attack, or a criticism on any one or guild, this is just an observation I see happening. Guilds insist on using recruitment methods and guild management methods, which are choking their numbers and realm numbers, and they're blind to the issue.

Will a Free Transfer here help? No. We'll have in influx of new members to the realm, which could help a little bit, but not enough to resolve any major problems. The problems as I highlighted above are purely the management of our few, is not strong enough.

What are you opinions on the matter?

It's true that in raw numbers you are able to increase your guild size by dropping recruitment standards. However, and I am speaking for Veneficus Ex here, that would do more damage then good to our guild.

A larger player-pool brings a higher possibility to find the right type of player for your guild and that's why I agree with Fataltouch that a server merger and/or free character migration does solve part of the problem. It's then up to us to do something with the new players given to us and make this an attractive server again.

Plz let's all of us keep the guilds out of this. This is a matter that concerns every individual of TVC and every opinion should be handled with respect.

Thornar i partially agree with you. Free migration towards TVC or a server merger may indeed cause other problems (out of control inflation, temporary server disorder, difficulties in absorving new players quicky etc.). But it will allow all the guilds to recruit from a larger player-pool as Anguisis mentioned. It will then be in our hands to initiate most of those ppl in the ways of TVC and of each guild. New guilds will arise. Old ones will get fresh blood in.
Free migration doesn't mean that all the of the hardcore raiders will get here. We will have casuals, PvPers, RPers and yes possibly some dedicated raiders. It will be up to each guild to focus on what kind of ppl they want in. I think what you recommend is another way -it may even be better i can't say for sure- for better management of the player resources.

Recruitment isn't hard at all. If each guild drops it's standards by a bit (and only if they don't mind doing it) then i guess they will get new members. But in general take a look around you. There aren't many ppl there anymore. You can even check the impact in the AH as well.

Let's keep it up ppl.

@ Anguisis & Fataltouch

The issue isn't so much in dropping the standards, but changing the methods. While this isn't going to solve the issue of the low population, it will resolve a few population issues within the guilds. Application processes have been around for years, and many guilds implement them without really thinking about the benefits and disadvantages, or they just do them because other guilds do them.

This is besides the point, and not the issue at hand. The issue here is the low population, but The Venture Co isn't an attractive realm to move to. We can't offer anything that other realms can. We've got a steady PvE situation, meaning anyone moving here solely to get on top of the ranking / Realm First is going to have a hard, if not impossible time. Making it unattractive to PvE Realm First Enthusiasts.
We've got a dying Roleplay Culture also. While I commend the efforts of the RP Community to keep it alive, it is also rather secluded and elite in some cases. This means we're not attractive to RP Enthusiasts and can rule them out of moving here.

The same goes to PvP also. While we're fairly good in some cases, we're not special or worth moving here for. As you can see, my belief is that this realm has got nothing going for it. We're to good to have the semi-hardcore Realm First Wanna-bes and PvP Wanna-bes come here, but we're not good enough to have the Hardcore fans move either.

What The Venture Co needs to so is work with that it has, and let the natural balance of new subscribers move onto the Realm. The only real thing we need Blizzard to do, is to mark our realm for "New Players".

Agree, Disagree? What are you thoughts?

As i see it a rush of new players will be a good thing for our server, either by means of a server merge or free migration.

The current economy sees some ppl benefit completely from the week competition and others again suffer. World pvp is almost none existent, at one point there was a city raid EVERY night, both ways now if one is happening is a guild event nothing more.

RP......(sad sad sad) Gold Shire is dead :( The only RP is see now is the World RP that goes on with the Knights walking around.....

In the end we will be a server that no one wants to play on and all move away from. This can be prevented.

@Luciana - Merging a Realm is an absolute last resort for Blizzard, they've said this themselves and believe it or not, there are in-fact realms far worse then us. There are realms where they only downed the Lich King on normal, in Cataclysm.

In terms of Roleplay, the issue I forsee is a lack of public activity. While I see a fair bit of private activity amongst fellow Roleplayers, there doesn't really seem to be any major effort to get new people involved with Roleplay. I could be wrong, and missing the point, but I just wanted to make that clear that myself, am unable to find any real assistance with getting involved with RP.

In terms of PvE, the realm is pretty much filled with PvE Guilds, and many of them are going no-where. I'm not asking for 1 mega-guild, but we've far to many small guilds, all attempting to do the exact same thing, at the exact same times, yet choking each other to death, due to them stealing the members they should be sharing to form a successful guild.

In terms of PvP, that isn;t so realm based anymore. Cross Server PvP is now a big thing, and as I don't PvP myself I don't notice to much of a problem. We may lose regularly but the benefit is we get more frequent battlegrounds and arenas.

Also, I just wanted to point out your mention of World PvP. The issue here is of two things. 1) That Blizzard have inadvertently created a game where World PvP is no longer in effect, due to the lack of rewards from it. 2) There also, similar to RP in my view, appears to be no major push for World PvP.

All these times i've seen posts asking about World PvP, RP and more, and while I respect your desire for these, the issue is simply that people lack the commitment to organise these events and get them going. Great ideas are one thing, implementing them to the realm is another.

This isn't about me criticising anyones opinions, or anyones views on the matters. This is just how I see things. As i've already said, a mass-influx of members would do nothing but to destabalise the Economy, flood the realm with new guilds, give a temporary boost to the numbers, until the cycle repeats itself in 6 - 8 months of them dropping off. We need a steady and commitited influx of new players to develop on this realm, and call this place home.

So basically you want to do nothing and hope it all works out?

@Anguisis - You're clearly not reading the entire of my thread, or just not understanding it. Please don't deliberately make silly statements, you know that is exactly what I am not saying.

Realms are based on the people on them. Every realm starts, and is maintained exactly the same. The players on the realm must then shape that realm into something more attractive. What we as an entire community, both Horde & Alliance need to do is to work together in a more clear and public way to begin mending the attitude of the realm.

Personal experiences and reviews are the strongest form of "marketing" around. If we can change the attitude of players on the realm, start the make a difference where it matters, news will spread of a Realm that is the up & coming next great place to PvE / PvP / RP.

Other successful realms which attract people from all over Europe have strong bonds with the community. The Argent Dawn is a successful RP Realm as it has taken the time to build an entire publicly available RP Community. Tarren Mill has many people too flock their in the hope of getting into Ensidia, and due to their open community relations on PvE & PvP.

We shouldn't hold out and hope for a Free Migration / Transfer here. That is sitting around and hoping it'll solve itself. What we need is the new players who join World of Warcraft or wish to re-roll on new realms join this realm.
As I pointed out earlier, Blizzard can help us by flagging us as a "New Player" Realm, but unless the attitude of the realm changes and adapts for the better, we're just going to scare off the newer players anyway, thusly going back into this vicious circle we're in.

You are losing the big picture here Thornar. You see the tree , but you don't see the forest. Server dieing is a fact. You can adapt methods as a guild to survive this crisis, but there is a saying "the operation was successful, but the patient died". Meaning while some guilds might survive, the server will die non the less.
Methods as you suggested in your last post are wishful and romantic, but they require a very long period of time to produce actual results to negate this downhill situation of our server, by which time with mathematic precision even more people will have fled / quit the server.They could / should be adapted once a more immidiate coarse of action is taken first.
Our situation requires far more drastic messures such as proposed by some previously (free migration , server merge) .
Vex is one of the guilds that are holding just fine so far, so the concern is for the general well being of the server and not a one guild need.There is solid evidence that this server is dieing , and even more solid evidence that it requires an outter intervention to save it.
Yes of course people in the server are responsible for it's status and yes they can help, but at this point IF you want to be a realist (seeing the last strongholds of this server are falling apart) you have to ask for help.
Just take a look at the population numbers.

PS : the fact that there are worst servers around, doesn't mean that we don't have the right / need to ask for something better for ourselves. That's just a moo point

When I came to this server during classic it was a relatively but not busy server. There were quite a number of guilds doing 40 man raiding, more than raid 25 man these days.

As time progressed the sub-top in raiding closed in on the top raiding guilds on the server. Not because they got a whole lot better, but because as far back as the Sunwell days the top guilds were starting to have problems filling vacancies with decent players. It was back then that the canabalising of other guilds that is necesity these days started. At first because it was the only way to get geared players, but even when that was no longer an issue in WotLK it persisited due to the small recruitement pool. I don't see how a proces that has been going for so long is going to be reversed without some action.

We've seen it happen and options have been discussed. A server transfer is out of the question for many of us that still have (RL) friends in other guilds on the realm and some that do not have the financial means to transfer their main plus the needed support characters. I wish we had the cash, because all the raiding guilds moving server would be the clearest message we could send, but alas that will never happen.

On the other hand I don't see a free migration to this server as a solution. Mainly because the comments on the forums to people asking about the server has been so negative that whoever reads it will think twice. This is unfortunate, because for the past few years this has been a quiet, but fun, little server. A merge may be a last resort, but does Blizzard realy want to wait so long? People won't stick along very long when all the fun is gone. And I for one do not feel like starting over on a server where I know noone at this point.

So far people from three guilds have posted here. And all including Nutz, even though they think the problem will be solved by itself, agree that it's gone down hil here. I'm really interested in what others think. There are stil some YOGS left here, RR is stil around (although it hurts to do a /who redrum around raiding times and see 3 people online). SoD has been raiding with people from outside their guild recently. Omerta, Unity, Vision, all still around in dwindling numbers, anyone in those guilds willing to share their thoughts?

(And how are things on the horde side?)

P.S. If other servers are worse - and this is because of low population - I would say they are prime candidates for a server merger.

Horde side? Isn't better we need to make raids from ppl that are online not because they are good. Recruitment comes down to nothing really, it's very hard to get any raider with decent skills. Right now even once bigger guilds straggle for survival.

There's no way that server merging would come to be, too many programming difficulties i think, what may work is free migration out off low population servers for few weeks. This would make every unhappy soul happy again.

@Xontroula - I totally understand what you're saying, and it is good to see that you roughly see what I mean, but as you stated yourself:

11/05/2011 18:11Posted by Xontroula

Methods as you suggested in your last post are wishful and romantic, but they require a very long period of time to produce actual results to negate this downhill situation of our server, by which time with mathematic precision even more people will have fled / quit the server

Resolving this issue short term, will only mean in 8 - 12 months, we'll be back here talking about the same issue. As I said before, I know this will be a painfully long process, but news will spread and the realm will improve.

From what I've seen you're having quite a decent-leveled discussion here, let me put my finger in it if you don't mind.
I've read all your suggestions about the server merge, free migration etc, but to be honest I don't think Blizzard would ever do such a thing.
First of all, merging servers is a difficult and should be handled with care, thus it will probably consume more money than this (and probably the other server) server earns annually.
Secondly, there for sure will be players objecting to that idea. I myself know a handful of people who had chosen this server because of it's low population and empty capital cities, what is more, I belive 80% of the subscribers playing here are mainly (if not only) staying here because of their bonds with other players / friends.
Summarizing, I belive none of the previously mentioned solutions are a perfect cure, but they won't do any major harm to the server. What is more, there's also an option of free char. transfer FROM TVC (which is unlikely as there are many other servers doing worse than us). If you'd like to know my very personal opinion about this - I would love to see a server merge happen, as marking TVC with blue "New Players" words can't possibly do as much as the company itself can (what we've had an occasion to see somewhere in the ulduar or ToC I reckon).



PS Also, I think it will be impossible to merge TVC with realms other than flagged as rppvp, so only Sporeggar and Scarshield Legion come to my mind (maybe Ravenholdt as well though).

I agree that something needs to be done, but i don't think allowing transfers to TVC would help us that much - At least in the long run. As someone mentioned above, TVC isn't a prime realm for anything really.

PvE Progression wise, we're 177th out of 264 realms. If people are looking for PvE, they won't come here. Alliance has 2... maybe 1 active 25 man guild now after YOGS migrated and Redrum are down to 10man due to lack of potential recruits (i assume?) . Horde side isn't any better, we've got 3 "active" 25 man guilds. Can't speak for Dignitas or Orc of the Covenant, but HD are struggling to get full raids some days due to simply not having a big enough raiding roster.

Things looked quite promising at the start of Cata due to a few new 10 man guilds appearing, but most of them seemed to have stopped raiding. Horde Defenders has had new members from 3 different 10 man guilds since the start of Cata, and we're still having recruitment / attendence issues. Effectively killing 3 guilds in the process.

PvP is in the same stale state. I PvP alot on my priest and i try to get some world pvp going as often as i can. It has come to the point where i can sit outside Stormwind's gates (as horde) and nothing will happen. Occasionally you'll see some people outside dueling in Elwynn / Goldshire but any newcomers would never think this was a PvP realm. From a horde perspective, Durotar isn't much better. I've leveled a new char on a PvP realm and the difference is night and day. The problem doesn't end with world pvp either - there just isn't that many pvpers left on TVC which in turn effects things such as the creation of arena and rated bg teams. Most of them left a while ago. With that being said, why come to TVC for PvP when there are other better options.

As far as RP goes, i don't know how it is myself as i don't participate, but i can only imagine the amount of RP can't match more populated realms (such as Argent Dawn/ Defias Brotherhood). Again, most people would just rather go elsewhere.

Solutions? Well there are a few that could potentially work. Merging with another RP-PVP realm as mentioned above. I think most people would be okay with that, although some people do choose low pop. realms on purpose. I don't think blizzard are too keen on doing this however.

Another option is to open transfers TO TVC. If this happens, i don't think it'll help us that much for the reasons i mention above, unless it's from a realm in an even worse state than TVC (and the majority of their pop. transfer), but even in that scenario we'd only gain a small amount of new players.

Personally, i would like to see free transfers off of TVC, perhaps to a few decent realms of each type. The only reason i'm still here is because of my guild, and also because i'm not paying to transfer 5+ characters. Free transfer would allow a guild to stay / move together which would not only benefit the guild moving, but the destination realm also.

Spread the word and keep this thread active, and there may be a slim chance of Blizzard taking action.

I think that neither solutions, asking Blizzard to help or trying ourselves to improve the server, will work on their own, but that we have to find a nice mix between the too.

In order to get Blizzard to do anything I expect we'll need to show a more united front, as an entire community, get more guilds to join the cause for one thing, but also take some responsibility for improving our server. Try to get more people to have their say on the matter both by keeping this thread active and by talking to friends from other guilds, maybe not everyone checks the forums often enough.

While TVC may not, at the moment, be the prime realm for anything, selling it like that won't get any new members to stay, and even with free migration or whatever, will find ourselves having the same problem a few months from now, just like Thornar said. I'm sure that there are still some great things about TVC, like for instance how so many of the players are so nice, mature and helpful or the snug community feel I've noticed in the RP community. We'll have to asses those things that are great, and the ones that are bad, which we'll need to figure out how to sort together. One example would be, when we're dancing in front of the gates of SW, please someone attack us. We should then start marketing and selling our server with a big welcoming smile across our faces, and keep the dirty laundry away from the new recruits, at least until they get to know us lovely bunch of people.

What I mean to say is that we can't really expect to have someone come and fix our server for us, we're the people on TVC and we're the ones that have to shape it into a server that attracts people and makes them want to stay and bring over all their friends. Sure we need BLizzard's help but I highly doubt that would be enough.

@Thornar The thing is, we might not have that much time before we have another trasfer (away) wave from the server. Many friends I've had on this server already tranfered off (Kielle etc), and I keep seeing the "goodbye tvc" messages in trade channel. There is no doubt we need to do something about it, but waiting 11-12 months sounds abit to much tbh.

Any of the suggestions over would help. A free transfer from argent dawn would probably give us alot of members, I've spoken with a friend of mine on Argent dawn and there's alot of people that don't like the "lolrpers" in stormwind/goldshire. If anything we can post recruitment threads on the different wow forums (Unofficial aswell).

And I think the venture co was flagged as "New Players" earlier if I'm not wrong.

I've kept a keen eye on this thread, and it is good to see people are concerned. But I am worried that people seem to be missing the point I am trying to make.

All realms are created and maintained equally. What makes realms more attractive is the players on the realm. Free migration here wont attract people, it'll kinda force people here.

What we need is to make this realm attractive, with what we have! All I ever see is "World PvP is dead" on MMO-Champion and this forum. Why not make our realm the only EU Realm where World PvP / RP is alive? Many players will flock here to participate in World PvP once more!

Nothing is impossible, while it may take time to improve the realm, it certainly can be done. If we do nothing about the core of the problem, then the circle of realm low population will continue, as the influx of members leave for brighter lands.

These are just a few points, I would go on and on, but I really don't feel like that'll help with a large post. What are your thoughts?

To summarize:

Look past guild differences and even faction differences and let's put our heads together to make remarkable events happen. World PvP, Cross-faction RP or any other interesting event we can come up with. The second step in this process is to make a report/review on it with some nice screen shots and put them on the official forums, but also other server related unofficial forums out there.

To make this work though we need to find people who are willing to put in the time and energy to keep these events happening.

I would like to take the first step and invite officers and guildleaders of TVC guilds (both horde and alliance, although horde players might want to make an alliance alt for this ;) ) to take an hour or so and sit around the table in an Inn somewhere to make these events more concrete and assign them to individuals who should set these up.

Would the other guild officers/masters be interested in this?