World of Warcraft®

I'm quite baffled reading this thread. Kateriina you don't want to roleplay in the current setting and lore background created by Blizzard. The policy you linked mentions respecting Immersion in a RP realm, what exactly are we supposed to be immersed in, if its not the lore and setting of warcraft itself?

You don't want to Roleplay with the existing community and respect the traditions and setups that have grown over time to both create and facilitate RP for the wider community. In your specific example of the Cathedral I've not seen you acknowledge at all that the Infirmary RPers there are actually there providing RP for others who care to come by and play along, I personally think thats an important point to note.

I can't fathom why someone who doesn't want to RP in the provided Lore of the World of Warcraft setting, or RP with the existing community on this server would feel the need to start having a go at the people who do both of those things.
/Baffled O.o

If people stopped assaulting and attempting to kill everyone we wouldn't need infirmary rp, simple.

The irony of all this is that she keeps claiming the problems she sees put people off from RPing here, and yet RP has only increased over the past year (I quit when it was at a low point and returned a few months ago - Trust me, there's a whole lot more going on now than there was then.)

I'm quite baffled reading this thread. Kateriina you don't want to roleplay in the current setting and lore background created by Blizzard. The policy you linked mentions respecting Immersion in a RP realm, what exactly are we supposed to be immersed in, if its not the lore and setting of warcraft itself?

You don't want to Roleplay with the existing community and respect the traditions and setups that have grown over time to both create and facilitate RP for the wider community. In your specific example of the Cathedral I've not seen you acknowledge at all that the Infirmary RPers there are actually there providing RP for others who care to come by and play along, I personally think thats an important point to note.

I can't fathom why someone who doesn't want to RP in the provided Lore of the World of Warcraft setting, or RP with the existing community on this server would feel the need to start having a go at the people who do both of those things.
/Baffled O.o

This indeed.

I am sorry Katariina, but please stop being so overly negative about us and everything. This server has existed in this shape for a tad more than six years, and we have always done fine. Yes, there are a lot of of OOCers, but they are also relatively easy to ignore as they tend to stick to certain parts of Azeroth/Stormwind.

The church has been -there- for a long time, and they have created RP for people and provide the necessary aid when someone falls injured, and they have always done well. The RP community accepts them being there as a result. Why don't you try engaging in RP with them rather than fretting over them being there?

You're free to go against the flow, if you wish, but don't be surprised if people will ignore your existance for it.

20/05/2011 21:32Posted by Kateriina

The community on Earthern Ring is largely non RP, I suspect they have been put off RP by exactly the attitude you display here Vandross.

...Attitude?
Due explain further.

I'm quite baffled reading this thread. Kateriina you don't want to roleplay in the current setting and lore background created by Blizzard. The policy you linked mentions respecting Immersion in a RP realm, what exactly are we supposed to be immersed in, if its not the lore and setting of warcraft itself?

You don't want to Roleplay with the existing community and respect the traditions and setups that have grown over time to both create and facilitate RP for the wider community. In your specific example of the Cathedral I've not seen you acknowledge at all that the Infirmary RPers there are actually there providing RP for others who care to come by and play along, I personally think thats an important point to note.

I can't fathom why someone who doesn't want to RP in the provided Lore of the World of Warcraft setting, or RP with the existing community on this server would feel the need to start having a go at the people who do both of those things.
/Baffled O.o

21/05/2011 10:34Posted by Karlotte

You're free to go against the flow, if you wish, but don't be surprised if people will ignore your existance for it.

I believe no one has the ability to say it better than these two.
And everything I wanted to state is directly in this thread, so I won't bother much more, because i'm both lazy and a simple man.

And for the record, Vandross, I still wuv you. Pwomise. <3

And for the record, Vandross, I still wuv you. Pwomise. <3

Love you as well, my big furry woflman.

What Prynkesse and Karlotte said.
Kateriina. I don't know who pissed you off in the first place - I bet someone did, because I doubt you would just start a thread like this for nothing.
But truly, if you insist, you can ignore the people you think are doing wrong. But remember - this will result in you being ignored too. By most of the people here.

Irony is that you say owning places kills RP. The thing is, it only SOMETIMES kills random RP. For the guilds etc. owning the places, it provides regular RP. Heck, why not to outsiders, too. When people know the Church is in the cathedral, they know where to go to contact them. And yes, they have earned the place. No matter what the links you post with the Blizzard rules say. The roleplayers own it, and the roleplayers agree with it. One pissed off individual can't do much. And I doubt Blizzard cares if you report someone for owning a place. Just ignore them, dammit.

I cant help but wonder what kind of RP you and your group are engaged in, when you feel a need to debate the validity of what I earlier mentioned as Blizzard Sanctioned Lore? I can only assume someone claimed you and your groups RP to be in conflict with above mentioned Lore.

And again, have you tried talking to the church? If you wished to use the church for something, and it became clear your RP contradicted one anothers, you could simply have agreed to ignore one another. I am certain that an amicable solution could have been had.
Unless of course one party demanded that they had sole rights to use the cathedral.

So, enlighten us. Do you RP as the Queen of England as was suggested earlier? Or is it something else entirely?

Blizzard Sanctioned Lore
Just to make it clear, with Blizzard Sanctioned Lore I mean everything from books, over questlines to trading card games that describe the Wow universe and have been published in compliance with Blizzard. Most of it can be found on Wowpedia with references to the relevant material. There are contradictions, sure. There have been retcons, indeed. But both applies with RL history of Earth. Sure, there exist people who still claim the Earth is flat, but most of us just shake our heads and chuckle at them.

Like Prynkesse, I'm a tad baffled, although I'm baffled in the sense that people actually even bother standing on either side of a fence, barking their different opinions at ... well, everyone else barking it at Kateriina – when it's not their place to tell others how to spend their game time.

It's not new that I'm crusading for the "live and let live”-concept, and I refuse to take a side, but I do have an opinion regardless.

On one side, the RP server policy states: "Creating an immersive world that holds true to the base story line of the World of Warcraft is the driving motivation behind our Role Play Servers.", and it's said quite outright that we're to immerse in the story lines and lore for the universe we play in, this being the World of Warcraft one, not the one we create by our own whim, wants and wishes.

However, this isn't to say that we aren't allowed to create alternatives to the lore we're immersing in, or do more about the lore we're handed than restricting ourselves to being peasants, criminals, servants to a higher authority/power, commoners, war veterans and heroes. I do draw the line on the queen of England-deal, but if people want to go as far as creating a guild circled around RP-ing out the concept of the Bronze Dragonflight, then they're entitled to do so.

Some might call it lore@@%@, others will say that they merely use their creativity in other ways when they RP, but regardless of what the label is, the rule always apply; don't shove it down over people's heads unless they want you to do so. But that rule applies the other way around as well. Mr. Commoner can, but shouldn't, crusade against a concept just because that isn't the way he pictures things being done, and certainly not the way he does it himself, unless he wants the other side to retaliate.

For the most part, that works out fine. In fact, those diving further into the lore (and higher up) usually ends up outside hubs, because they are shunned and labled lol-RPer. Apparently problems arrives when your-not-so-average-RPer wants to come back into the warmth of a hub again and want to bring their perception and concept with them.

Solution? Play the tavern. It's easy to be in the very same room, and not talk to someone or grant them your attention and time, but still enjoy yourself.

I too aren't overly enthusiastic about being restricted by pixel-ownership. The perfect example here could be the Cathedral, and the catacombs. According to their IC, the catacombs is living quarters for the employees. According to my IC, the catacombs is the catacombs and not apartments and could provide me with tons of cultist-in-a-dungeon RP should I wish. The problem arises when my opinion clashes with theirs, because it's widely accepted that they have the ownership of the place. And that, I can agree with, is not something that is okay, because it restricts other people's RP.

Opposing that, however, is things like the infirmary, or a tavern. Someone have claimed ownership, but while they have, they also provide other people with regular RP instead of letting them stand out in the cold wondering where to go to have fun. It's one of the knots in our humble society where we know we can go for RP. But we also know that if we go there, we play by their rules. Shooting someone in the Command Centre and then scream "unfair" when five guards jumps and arrests you is the "how not to play by the rules".

TL;DR
Live and let live. Do what you want to, but don't impose it on others, just as they shouldn't impose their "correct way to RP" on those who plays a bit outside the normal square. But remember that first come, first serve, and if someone RPs regularly in the same spot, it's quite okay for them to claim it as theirs - even more so if their conquering offers RP for those who come and go.

Just to add, having seen these types of discussions pop up a bajillion times before, this whole debate thingy has a lot to do with how people RP on the Alliance and the Horde respectively.

RP on the Alliance side is very traditional, so to speak. There's a lot of history behind it, there are a lot of rules, both concrete and unwritten within guilds and even the community as a whole, certain guilds make their home in certain areas and expect RP to happen in a certain way while they're operating there, and so on.
This makes the whole thing feel a lot richer, like a living breathing world with a certain rigour to it that can really enhance the atmosphere, but at the same time it leads to a lot of disagreements about what constitutes "proper" RP like this one.

The Horde by contrast has virtually nothing set in stone within the RP community, nobody really has any anthority over anyone else both ICly and OOCly, nobody tends to stake claim to certain areas, and people are more or less free to RP whatever and however they want.
As a result the Horde side doesn't feel like a tight community with a rich history and atmosphere in the same way as the Alliance does, but equally there are far fewer disagreements and conflicts regarding this "proper" RP holy grail, and the community often feels more carefree and fun-loving as a result.

And I mean, I play on the Horde side because I like that. I'm not a fan of a lot of Blizzard's lore, and I like to have my characters mock the existence of Deathwing and come up with zany explanations for the silly choices the writers make. That's not to say it's any "better" than the other side of the fence, it's just what I love.

I've always kind of seen it as the Alliance being the right-wing of RP, while the Horde are the left-wing. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and ultimately it just comes down to which style you enjoy more.
It sounds to me like you're far more suited to the style we tend to have on the Horde Kateriina, I know I've found the way things happen on the Alliance to be frustrating in the same way in the past, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. ^^

I'd like to just point out that I do recognise Warcraft background stories... they make good history and as Blizzard intended, they make a good base storyline for any RP, but as with any good RP, the story moves on and new lore is created by both players and the game owners.

History is a very useful source for many things, but it's just that, a source. I think the thing I've failed to truely get across here is that some guilds (and to be honest I have no idea who "The Church" is... unless you mean the "Order of the Silver Hand"?) tend to treat the Lore as LAW.

Lore is history, it's a re-telling of a collection of events up to a certain point, it's not the LAW, there's a huge difference.
More to the point, as with any history, interpretation can be wildly different from one person to the next, and there is no right or wrong interpretation, only different viewpoints.
If individuals or guilds want to bring in new storylines or even new factions, so long as they fit into the Warcraft universe, and so long as they don't interfere or impose on other players, then why shouldn't they? It's their game, let them enjoy it their way.

Someone asked if somebody had p**sed me off... very insightful... yes someone did, there are one or two people who seem to believe that there is only one way to RP and that every other form of RP is incorrect. I've RP'd in various games for the best part of 30 years, starting with tabletop D&D in the early 80's, progressing to LARP in various settings, often at night (yes heaps of fun!), with many MUD's and RPG's inbetween and it near enough makes my blood run cold to see people get themselves into a knot over so many rules and regulations. They really do seriously miss the point of RP, and they are missing out on a whole heap of fun.

Thank you Syuríel, you seem to have understood me completely, and I share your views.

Just for the record... I am not RP'ing the Queen of England... I'm really not quite THAT old yet.

IF you're that old, a bit more understanding for the established guilds and player history on the server could be expected of you. Because in the end you're no better than us - Where you feel we're trying to push our vision of the server on you, you're also trying to force your perspective on us. Someone mature enough ought to be able to see the merits to both sides and make the best of it, rather than childishly thanking everyone in this thread who remotely agrees with you and calling the rest a bunch of silly people.

I'd like to just point out that I do recognise Warcraft background stories... they make good history and as Blizzard intended, they make a good base storyline for any RP, but as with any good RP, the story moves on and new lore is created by both players and the game owners.

History is a very useful source for many things, but it's just that, a source. I think the thing I've failed to truely get across here is that some guilds (and to be honest I have no idea who "The Church" is... unless you mean the "Order of the Silver Hand"?) tend to treat the Lore as LAW.

Lore is history, it's a re-telling of a collection of events up to a certain point, it's not the LAW, there's a huge difference.
More to the point, as with any history, interpretation can be wildly different from one person to the next, and there is no right or wrong interpretation, only different viewpoints.
If individuals or guilds want to bring in new storylines or even new factions, so long as they fit into the Warcraft universe, and so long as they don't interfere or impose on other players, then why shouldn't they? It's their game, let them enjoy it their way.

Someone asked if somebody had p**sed me off... very insightful... yes someone did, there are one or two people who seem to believe that there is only one way to RP and that every other form of RP is incorrect.

(...) They really do seriously miss the point of RP, and they are missing out on a whole heap of fun.

I must say. Your last post gave me a much more positive picture of you and more importantly the points you have been trying to get across.

Interestingly, I agree totally to what you have written in the above quote. And I do think we as a community should try to be less restrictive and more inclusive about other peoples RP - even if they brush up against the edges of what we think is "proper RP"

21/05/2011 20:50Posted by Kateriina

Just for the record... I am not RP'ing the Queen of England... I'm really not quite THAT old yet.

Good, cause that would really have been an immersion-breaker for me.

The Church claims ownership to nothing. Our circle does however possess the right to view the IC layout of the cathedral as we desire.

If this is a conflicting issue, we pretend to play in alternative realms and do not interact with eachother.

TL;DR
Live and let live. Do what you want to, but don't impose it on others, just as they shouldn't impose their "correct way to RP" on those who plays a bit outside the normal square. But remember that first come, first serve, and if someone RPs regularly in the same spot, it's quite okay for them to claim it as theirs - even more so if their conquering offers RP for those who come and go.

This is what i go by as well.

While i think that the political scene in Stormwind on ER has always differed ingame from how I personally would see it thematically, I've still abided by it because it's not that big of a stretch imaginationwise. If I'm to give examples of what I find a bit silly, it's for example the brawls all over, the guard's current HQ, the whole infirmary roleplay utilizing the cathedral as it does with so many paladins and priests that we don't see (npcs) around, but i understand it still adds to the immersion, adds roleplay and so I tolerate it.

I'm willing to tolerate quite a bit this way, all i ask from people is that they consider what they're doing and hopefully make it at least somewhat seem plausible in the setting. I mean, not everything about it has been written down as law, and some things would just make sense. One example is something like the draenei background. It's not very defined in lore because blizzardhatesdraeneiahem, I mean, blizzard hasn't added much about the race, and so I take some liberties based on loose facts from quest texts hinting at their past. An example would be that I play Rhyn as if she is part of a clan/family and that the draenei use such a structure (loosely hinted at in a Auchindoun quest), and even if this changes I still keep it ambigous so that in that ase she just had a big family.

I think what I'm trying to say, like others and even the OP to an extent, is that we should just try to keep things in perspective. There is some room for experimentation, one just has to try keep it within the limits of making sense in the world of warcraft.

PS. My mask is awesome.

No-one has any right to tell you what you can and can't do (within the rules) whether their RP'ing or not... Your a bit vague on what actually happened so im just going to assume you needed to use part of the cathederal which was being used for another RP at the same time..

2 (mature) options available really, you either leave as they ask til their done, but i'll admit this is unfair on you, or you simply ignore them, go about your business and don't interupt them, which seems a fairly simple option to come to.. The game has many mechanics to enable you not to interact with people, whether by ignoring, or creating private chat channels.

I'd simply send a /w to whoever tries to stop you and say that your going to continue RP'ing where you are, and if they don't bother you, you won't bother them and as such theres no reason you can't all get on with it.

On a general note, a lot of people mention that as a whole faction they 'understand' that a particular RP guild/group 'owns' a particular place within the game, and its only 'fair' to abide by this in the greater sense of things, which I can agree with in part, and certainly if you don't want to burn bridges. However, Blizz haven't installed them as part of the game mechanics and so that all means nothing in regards to you RP'ing in a place you want to, and no-one can argue with that.

This thread is pretty cool. Makes me miss ER even if it's pale compared to threads we used to have.

gok worst