World of Warcraft®

Edit : Before making your final verdict (''No! QQ!'' or ''Okay'' or ''Meh''), read the whole post, or you will miss some extremely important elements and arguments. I know, Wall of Text crits you for over 9000, tl:dr etc... , but the thread has developped in an interesting way, which is a very solid and valid one imho. You wont regret it.

First allow me to introduce myself. I am a die hard Alliance supporter and I've followed it's lore since Warcraft 1. I am also a very frequent PvP player. As such, I do believe that the patriotic empathy/fanatism towards the faction must play a role into bolstering the spirits of the players to give their best in righteous combat agaisnt the opposing faction.

The High Elves of Quel'Thalas were known for being important allies to the Humans of Lordaeron in the Alliance created during the Second War. Since then, it always seemed like they belonged to this Alliance of advanced civilizations bound by their common interest for mutual survival and prosperity.

The tragic loss of Quel'Thalas by the High Elves during the Third War, due to the Scourge's advance, was a terrible and undeniable blow to them.

The High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves in honor of their fallen comrades and joined the resistance of Lordaeron under the command of Lord Garithos. The blatant, unacceptable racism displayed by Garithos in front of the Blood Elves' acceptance of Naga help agaisnt impossible odds convinced the Elves that the Alliance wasnt interested in them anymore.

Now, after a certain amount of events, the Blood Elves have joined the Horde to ensure their own survival. They sided with the Orcs who ravaged their Kingdom during the Second War and with Trolls, a race with which they have a very conflicting past (due to the mutual hate between the Amani and the Elves). I know the Horde Trolls are from the Darkspear Clan, but still, you dont erase racial prejudice so easily, at least in my opinion.

Many do believe that the loss of the Elves to the Horde and their loss of confidence towards the Alliance is due to the incompetent and stupid behavior coming from Lord Garithos who doesnt represent the entirety of the Alliance mentality. Sylvanas helped getting the Elves into the Horde, yes I know, but that's another factor. The lack of diplomatic interactions between the Alliance and the Blood Elves resulted in their loss to the Horde. A clumsy, yet sad mistake from both sides, when you know there could have been a way to find a point of agreement.

If Varian and Lorthemar opened constructive negociations today, the result might be more interesting than we anticipate. Varian might be hotheaded, but he would not necessarily reject the Elves who helped free his destroyed home : the Kingdom of Stormwind. Yes the current War situation deteriorated the relations between the Alliance and the Blood Elves and mutual inflicted casualties are difficult to forget. Yet I know there is hope for a call to reason to be heard between these two parties.

...Even more so when the Horde itself is divided from the inside : Garrosh clearly rejecting the Elves from Orgrimmar, excluding Vol'Jin from Orgrimmar, killing Cairne, calling Sylvanas (ancient Ranger General of Silvermoon!) the B word. It would certainly not surprise me if the Elves were EXASPERATED by such unbearable and unacceptable pressure AND intolerance from their Orcish allies. Such division elements would certainly remember certain stratums of the Blood Elf society that the Alliance is a better option which would respect them more than these brutes, even after the brief interlude of Lord Garithos.

I cannot possibly believe the Blood Elves like to be with these barbaric monsters they themselves fought and slauthered in the past.

When I fight Blood Elves in Battlegrounds, I cannot help but facepalm or frown sometimes due to the thought of them being close allies in the past. They have so much in common to the races of the Alliance : they are benevolent, have an advanced civilization, have an extended knowledge of magic, they fought with us in the past agaisnt the barbaric Horde and even agaisnt the Scourge in the early stages of the Third War and on top of that they worship the Holy Light (even more so since the sacrifice of a Naruu to renew the Sunwell into a fountain of pure Light).

The High/Blood Elves belong in the Alliance, not in the Horde and you know it! The presence of such a refined race admist the barbaric and ruthless Horde (THEY FOUGHT IN THE PAST!) is a stain, an error, that I wish could be corrected. But this might be a fleeting dream that will never come true due to the irreversible nature of gameplay » story and due to the fact you cant force all the Elves of the Horde to suddenly faction transfer to the Alliance (=gigantic QQ).

I am aware the High Elves, who have managed to master their addiction to magic and as such still have blue eyes are still in the Alliance, but they are far too few. If one day Alleria Windrunner was to come back into the story (which will surely happen), -maybe- it would be appropriate to reintroduce the remaining High Elves of the Alliance as a playable race. On the other side, would Vereesa support the return of the Blood Elves to the Alliance? Or better, encourage the intervention of the remaining High Elves as an ally of the Alliance? In my opinion, she certainly would. Her husband is Rhonin, a human from the Kingdom of Dalaran, ancient ally to the once glorious Alliance of Lordaeron. Not only that but Alleria, her sister, wherever she is, is still married to Turalyon, General of the Alliance Expedition in Outland. She is not aware of the current changes and still holds her vow towards the Alliance, a vow she wouldnt forget so easily seeing as to how she loves a HUMAN! Alleria and Vereesa are both heroes and well respected rangers in their people, their influence could certainly influence a future comeback of the High Elves or (less likely) Blood Elves into the Alliance. I do however admit I am heavily speculating here, because the Blood Elves might not take their opinion into account now that so much has happened. However this reasoning goes in favor of the enlistement of the remaining High Elves of the Alliance, who resent their cousins for their actions and respect their Vereesa and Alleria certainly more than the Blood Elves, etc (see page 3 of the post with further explanations, very important). This is an option I support.

I know the aesthetic problems of such new -race- due to the fact it would be a blueish reskinned version of the Blood Elf model (=lolblizzardbeinglazyrecyclingforthe99999thtime). But seeing as how Blizzard is intending to polish/modify the models and skins of the existing races In The Future (trademark), wouldnt it be an opportunity to give the High Elves some distinctive aesthetic and racial features (appearance and racial abilities) to distinguish them from the now separated Blood Elves? I am sure that with such an elongated separation (ten years since the end of the Third War) they must have developped and modified their own vision of their bond with the Alliance and their own cultural, social and political identity.

After all, these remaining High Elves have been working in the Alliance since Vanilla (and even before lore wise), yet, the only thing we can do is watch them...as NPCs.

Fellow Elves of Quel'Thalas, I wish we could have you at our side once more to fight agaisnt the Horde War Machine which will stop at nothing to increase their presence on Azeroth agaisnt the will of many of its inhabitants.

Hear our plea and fight at our side once more!

Terovar Proudheart, Paladin. Defender of the Alliance, defender of the Holy Light.

(Also, may we get a redirect to the story forums please, I underestimated the Lore/RP oriented nature of my post. I thought it would be more grey than that, but I was mistaken. I apologize! : ) )

RP forums are this way --> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874702/

Funny, i don't miss the Alliance at all...

Wall of Text...etc..

No. Please, no. Enough kids already play Alliance already, hoping desperately that their Night Elf model will bug and some skin might be exposed.

No. Please, no. Enough kids already play Alliance already, hoping desperately that their Night Elf model will bug and some skin might be exposed.

How can you call them kids with a name like "Bradpittlol"

I do not seek the side boobage from my character, how ever lovely she may look.

The Blood Elves are still allied to Lordaeron.

The Thalassians' involvement with the Alliance was tenous at best. Much like Gilneas, they wished for maximum gain for minimum investment. Quel'thalas had no wish to join, much less remain in the Alliance after it had served its purpose after the second war.

The Blood Elves are still allied to Lordaeron.

The Thalassians' involvement with the Alliance was tenous at best. Much like Gilneas, they wished for maximum gain for minimum investment. Quel'thalas had no wish to join, much less remain in the Alliance after it had served its purpose after the second war.

meaning the destroyed human kingdom inhabitet by the forsaken or ?

The silly thing is, every single playable blood elf is old enough to remember being on the same side as humans - and not even humans like Garithos.

They are old enough to recall honourable humans fighting alongside them.

Blizzard seems to have forgetten their timeline.

(oh, and on 'there aren't enough high elves' - There are more high elves than gnomes. There are more high elves than darkspear. There should be more high elves than Forsaken, preValkyr, but that seemed to get ignored in Gilneas et al. Numbers are not the reason they got ignored.)

No, kill high elves already. Must be a shame for the blood elves to see those little spongers in Qulel'thalas.

You being a die hard Alliance fan it is perhaps difficult to understand the honour of the Horde. They are not barbarians or monsters as you make them out to be. Having played both sides, I can easily say that I have met more kindhearted and honourable characters (npc and lore characters) on the Horde side.

We are ruthless, we do whatever we can for the glory of the Sin'dorei. So far the Horde, and most of all Sylvanas, has given us strength to raise again. There has been little to nothing new about the Blood Elves since TBC, so as you say, they could indeed open negotiations with Wrynn. But cutting ties and bonds they just recently created will demand a lot from a political view. Currently there are quite a few Forsaken in the Ghostlands and I don't think Sylvanas would give up her hold quite that easily.

That said; I don't even want her to. I love the Horde and to me the Alliance appear twofaced and biggoted.

How could you forget the Orcs who invaded your home during the Second War? How could you possibly forget your Human allies? You Elves live long lives and should know better than to trust ancient enemies or even your old Ranger General who is now adopting a policy getting dangerously closer to the Lich King's regarding ressurection with the Val'Kyr. Remember than it was the monstruosities launched upon you by Arthas which destroyed your Kingdom. Would you tolerate another monster to rise to such practices once more?

The silly thing is, every single playable blood elf is old enough to remember being on the same side as humans - and not even humans like Garithos.

They are old enough to recall honourable humans fighting alongside them.

^^ this

It makes life a bit complicated for the Blood Elves as they will have mixed feelings towards the Humans.
As mentioned by Boxerion, the political reality however demands that we support the Horde. I personally would be in favor of a more isolationist policy now that the Sunwell is restored and with the Scourge under control, but that is unfortunately an unrealistic ideal.

The silly thing is, every single playable blood elf is old enough to remember being on the same side as humans - and not even humans like Garithos.

They are old enough to recall honourable humans fighting alongside them.

Blizzard seems to have forgetten their timeline.

A small regiment of High Elves were dispatched to aid against the Horde via Alleria Windrunner.

A handful of mages interacted with the Kingdom of Arathor at the dawn of the humans rise to power, teaching them magic.

Some High Elves lived with humans in the city-state of Dalaran, but the vast majority of High Elves had probably never even seen a human in their life. They did not speak common, for instance - they didn't need to. The High Elves of Quel'thalas did not interact with other races if they could avoid it; they were perfectly happy to remain within the borders of their enchanted lands, and the rest of the world be damned.

wall of text crits you for over 9k!

You know what, im writing this on my blood elf, he hasnt gotten alot of love in game and this is a good opportunity for me to (almost) log into him.

Anyway on to the point, im going to put forth two situations and i want you to think about who you would be more angry with.

The guy next door is a nasty piece of work, you havent gotten on since he moved in and hes always constantly breaking the person next door but one from you's things, breaking into their garden, that sort of thing. One day you come back to find that theyve broken into your garden, have killed your pets and is in the process of breaking into your house. Turns out he does this because hes an alcoholic and is blind drunk all the time.

on the other hand.

Theres a guy youve been good friends with since you were in primary school, You even did them afew major favors over the years and theyve done their best to repay you. You wake up one day to find that the guy hasnt just broken into your home but has killed all of your new pets and trashed everything in every room in your house, theyve found it and whatever it is it only makes the mess worse (i dont know...maybe your an engineer and are sneaking explosives into the house or something..be creative.).

So your home is in ruins, days later you find out that through their own stupidity this friend of yours has managed to destroy their own home, you decide to give them another chance so you go to help them rebuild their home--the pair of you have history after all-- when you go there they give you various impossible and sometimes downright dangerous tasks while they swan off with all the tools, throw a tantrum when you accept the aid of a passer by and calls the police claiming that you helped them break into his house.

alright, so who are you more angry at?

Ive tried to write the examples so they match the races as a whole rather than just one individual. how i hope you see the people in each case is what i think the blood elves would think of/remember of the orcs and humans.

08/07/2011 03:23Posted by Terovar

Garrosh clearly rejecting the Elves from Orgrimmar, excluding Vol'Jin from Orgrimmar, killing Cairne, calling Sylvanas (ancient Ranger General of Silvermoon!) the B word

but she is!

Many do believe that the loss of the Elves to the Horde and their loss of confidence towards the Alliance is due to the incompetent and stupid behavior coming from Lord Garithos who doesnt represent the entirety of the Alliance mentality. Sylvanas helped getting the Elves into the Horde, yes I know, but that's another factor. The lack of diplomatic interactions between the Alliance and the Blood Elves resulted in their loss to the Horde. A clumsy, yet sad mistake from both sides, when you know there could have been a way to find a point of agreement.

If Varian and Lorthemar opened constructive negociations today, the result might be more interesting than we anticipate. Varian might be hotheaded, but he would not necessarily reject the Elves who helped free his destroyed home : the Kingdom of Stormwind. Yes the current War situation deteriorated the relations between the Alliance and the Blood Elves and mutual inflicted casualties are difficult to forget. Yet I know there is hope for a call to reason to be heard between these two parties.

now why would varian take interest in interfering in affairs so far away from home that poses no direct threat whatsoever or will bring any direct benefits. stormwind has numerous problems of its own to solve. besides, negotiations will most likely fail anyway.

and as for the elves freeing stormwind, get your warcraft 2 lore right. sole credit does not go to the elves. they were reluctant to join the war in the first place, and by the time they did put their full effort in, lothar was already laying siege to orc supply bases near grim batol. also, i dont recall the elves playing a decisive role in the battle of blackrock spire(which effectively won the second war for the alliance.) it was the leadership of lothar and the diplomacy of terenas(arthas' father) that won the war. the dwarves did more to help than the elves did, by holding the orcish horde in place when they were sieging ironforge. and besides, elves as front line soldiers? an orc cavalry charge would send them fleeing(the orcs in wc2 were demonically enhanced).

It makes life a bit complicated for the Blood Elves as they will have mixed feelings towards the Humans. As mentioned by Boxerion, the political reality however demands that we support the Horde. I personally would be in favor of a more isolationist policy now that the Sunwell is restored and with the Scourge under control, but that is unfortunately an unrealistic ideal.

true, opening relations with the belves would not sit well with the night elves, and the alliance needs footholds in kalimdor.

08/07/2011 15:16Posted by Boxerion

You being a die hard Alliance fan it is perhaps difficult to understand the honour of the Horde. They are not barbarians or monsters as you make them out to be. Having played both sides, I can easily say that I have met more kindhearted and honourable characters (npc and lore characters) on the Horde side.

so explain that general in stonetalon mountains(krom'gar i think) who drops a hydrogen bomb of sorts on night elf(and some tauren) druids? additionally, just look at how the horde 'dismisses' their generals(hint: gravity). i thought introducing belves into the horde would make them more civilised, but it appears you belves have a long way to go. good luck teaching the greenskins!

08/07/2011 14:54Posted by Dambala

No, kill high elves already. Must be a shame for the blood elves to see those little spongers in Qulel'thalas.

you're just butthurt just because the high elves destroyed your might troll empires.

Us? Rejoin the Alliance? You must be joking.

You can blame the betrayal we faced on Garithos all you want, but his troops and the city of Dalaran supported him in his attempts at genocide. Moreover, the rest of the Alliance did nothing to either stop or punish him. He continued to serve the Alliance until Lady Sylvanas ended his miserable existence, herself.

You do realize that even before we joined the Horde, after our people escaped Dalaran's prison where they otherwise awaited execution, we were still branded traitors by the Alliance as a whole for accepting the aid of "the wrong kind of people," something, I might add, we did to save your miserable hides and your city after you left us with nothing to defend it with.

If you want us by your side again, you have a long way to go in proving yourselves worthy of our cooperation. Simple fact, we do not trust you.


To look at another race in that Alliance of yours, the Night Elves are just as much two-faced biggots as the rest of you. They exiled us for the use of arcane magic 7000 years ago, forcing us to leave behind our homes and our immortality, only to now turn around and start accepting the few remaining Highborne back into their society? Even allowing the practice of arcane magic? I always knew they were hypocrits, but I honestly didn't expect such insult.


Now, as for our "relation" to the Horde, I am personally not very pleased about that myself. I am certainly not pleased with how close we seem to be with those rotskin Forsaken. In my personal opinion, undeath only made those humans more despicable (with only a very few exceptions.)

Alas, I am not in charge of Blood Elven politics, and it is a sad fact that we do need allies at this time, mostly to defend ourselves from you.

I remember those times you speak of. I remember those honorable humans and brave defenders. I remember my time with the Silver Hand in Lordaeron.

I also remember the Troll Wars, and the Orcs burning down our forests, and the Scourge sieging our homelands.

As well, I remember the foolish ideals of Garithos and his betrayal, and how the Alliance did nothing to stop him.

And I remember the horrors I witnessed and I myself committed as a Scourge Death Knight.

I see the valiance of the Alliance. I see the honor of the Horde. I see the foolhardy leadership and internal struggles of both. I see the strong and the weak, the brave and the cowards, the soldiers and the civilians of both sides.

I have chosen to side with both, and to side with neither. The war between the Horde and the Alliance is unnecessary and only serves to hinder us in our efforts to defend this world from far more pressing threats.

I recall how the Horde and the Alliance stubbornly insisted on hindering and sabotaging for each other even while trying to fight their way to Arthas, the Lich King. In the heart of hostile territory, with a common enemy, they still squabbled like children over who would be the ones to kill Arthas. The whole Northrend campaign would have been over much faster, with far fewer casualties, had both sides cooperated.

Now, with the Lich King dead, a new threat faces Azeroth, and I see the same scenarios playing out again, both sides fighting each other when they should be fighting their common enemy as a united front. We will surely suffer a great many losses and grave defeat in battles we should have won because of this narrow-minded arrogance.