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I would also like to add a firm disagreement exists between Vereesa (quite clearly respected by the High Elves) and the Blood Elves of Silvermoon. Vereesa leads her own Silver Covenant of High Elves (existing since Wotlk). Near Zul'Aman you can see her and her rangers discussing with Halduron Brightwing, current Ranger-General of Silvermoon. Vereesa states that she has the right to help her land agaisnt the Trolls (calling Lor'Themar a coward even!), but the discussion remains tense. The messenger sent by Lor'themar states that the Regent Lord will not tolerate interference from the outside, I quote ''Exiles'', while Brightwing states he has rightfully called for her assistance to counter the Amani insurection. Brightwing, however, also tells to the messenger that he will tolerate no ''further interference'', insinuating he might be reluctant to call Vereesa's rangers.

Also, do not forget the rivalry between the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers during Wotlk. After all, the Silver Covenant is described in game as a ''a militant core of high elves that reject the admission of blood elves into the Kirin Tor (hence defending the original pro-Alliance position of Dalaran). They have united under the banner of Vereesa Windrunner and joined the Alliance Vanguard to oppose the Lich King''. The fact they joined the -Alliance Vanguard- further increases the existence of a considerable core of High Elves still loyal and empathic to the Alliance.

This sign of division further increases the probability of seeing High Elves appear in the Alliance in a future expansion. The current expansion introduced races which were allied with the Horde and the Alliance during the Second War : some opportunistic Goblins, and the Gilneans, who provided their assistance early in the War before Greymane's retirement from the Alliance. The natural course of choice for the two next races would be to have High Elves in the Alliance and a tribe of Ogres, yes -Ogres- in the Horde. After all the Ogres share many aspects with the Horde. Brutality, strength, straightforwardness. The Ogres also participated to the Second War alongside the Orcs.

The enlistment of such old allies would further throw oil on the fire, remembering to many people the days of the Second War, hence increasing patriotism toward each faction. The war that Jaina and Thrall tried to avoid for ten years would happen after all, because honestly, the tension became too high between the Horde in the Alliance. The enlistment of Kul'Tiras into the Alliance, which will happen no doubt, will further increase the déjà-vu sensation of Second War between the two factions.

Varian, whose father was killed by Garona, would certainly not like to live ''Fall of Stormwind 2.0'' as he saw it with his own eyes as a child. Notice how the Vashj'ir starting quest starts with an Officer of the Alliance telling his troops on the pirate boat ''What the Horde/Orcs dont understand is that they will NEVER take STORMWIND! *cheers from soldiers and myself too by the way*''.

Garrosh? Engage in glorious battle with the Alliance+more territory and ressources. Bonus : experience the total War his father participated in in the past and make a name for himself. Thrall? Out of the way, next Earthwarder.

Blizzard is going that way and clearly wants it to go that way. This is the World of WARcraft and they want War to happen. A good ol' War like the First and Second one, bolstering the nostalgianess of many veteran fans, while satisfying War-hungering new/more recent players at the same time.

Seeing as to how conflict has clearly become open between the Horde and the Alliance after the defeat of the Lich King, the Cataclysm and the rise to power of belligerent leaders such as Varian and Garrosh, one of the most probable course of actions is total War. The -Fourth- War, if we are not in it already. As I observe the current conflict between the Horde and the Alliance, there are quite a few similarities with the Second War : each faction gathers as many allies as possible and conflict is open (if Stonetalon and Ashenvale arent open enough then tell me what is). The High Elves would remember the period of the Second War and gladly join the Alliance as a playable race, while the Horde would once again enlist (with a story explanation) some Ogre tribe into the Horde (just as they recruted one faction of Goblins into the Horde).

Dont forget the Goblins were in the game since Vanilla. They had the Dwarf model and a Goblin skin. Blizzard then gave the Goblins their own model when they finally introduced them as a playable race. Worgen? Exist since Vanilla too and they got their own new shiny model in Cataclysm. What would prevent the High Elves from having their own distinguishing aesthetical aspects apart from blue eyes (use your imagination Blizzard)? What would prevent the Ogres, who share a model with the Moonkins (see the similarity Dwarf/Goblins?), to have their own model as well? Give them their own model and people will play them! Guaranteed.

If someone can make it happen, its Blizzard and they know they can.

You do know one thing OP that race/culture/society can change factions if the suit there need and if you are so big fan of lore you should know the alliance trun the back from Bloodelf and Horde come and help them and also as Illusiel say Bloodelf is loyal to Lordaeron and there are keep up there part of alliance the made with Lordaeron.

Beside you should listen to this guys he have nail the lore on horde side really good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdqEmi1GbsE&feature=feedf

You do know one thing OP that race/culture/society can change factions if the suit there need and if you are so big fan of lore you should know the alliance trun the back from Bloodelf and Horde come and help them and also as Illusiel say Bloodelf is loyal to Lordaeron and there are keep up there part of alliance the made with Lordaeron.

Beside you should listen to this guys he have nail the lore on horde side really good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdqEmi1GbsE&feature=feedf

You didnt read the rest of my reasoning apparently.

The Blood Elves are somewhat loyal to Sylvanas and the Horde, not to Lordaeron, buddy. They didnt enlist in the Horde ''In the name of Lordaeron'' And Lordaeron is far from being the jewel of Light, empathy and genuine good it once was. The Forsaken there have left their humanity behind for -something else-. Plus, the Quel'Dorei were loyal to the Alliance of Lordaeron, which is no more. They were loyal to an Alliance of benevolent, good people willing to defend themselves agaisnt the shadows. They were, however, NOT loyal to a group of Forsaken practicing necromancy, practicing undead resurection through the Val'kyr, practicing horrible Plague 2.0 experimentation on innocent people. The current Alliance (let's call it Alliance 2.0) still upholds the ideals of the first Alliance, not the twisted and dark ideas of the current Forsaken of Lordaeron.

And I know lore for noobs. He knows nothing that I dont know, although his videos are very refreshing and interesting in the way they are presented. Always good to look at them to not get rusty.

And OP you did not read the Bloodelf is honor the pack the did with both Lordaeron and undead the have make a pack with rest of horde the are basic support the undead and the are with horde for horde the come out to outland to look for there king which show was trun by burinng legion if ally would have help bloodelf the would be on your side.

No i not read wall text but fact is the bloodelf is on horde side atm for it suit the bloodelf need atm im sure most people do know what im talk if the table trun and horde would trun the back to bloodelf i think the would other try to get ally with alliance or go neutral.

Face the fact OP the alliance blow the chance to get bloodelf on there side :)

Kudos on your grasp of the lore, Terovar! Although I think if we look at the lore from this perspective we might find why the Sin'dorei are with the Horde and not the Alliance.

If we look at the history of things, the High Elves were reluctant to join the Alliance to begin with. They only did so on honor of an old debt, namely the one given to the King of Arathor when the humans helped them defeat the Amani Trolls. Had that king's descendant not been there, the High Elves would not have joined the Alliance.

Even when they did join the Alliance, they did only what was absolutely required of them, sending only a token force to aid the Alliance. That is, until the Orcs made their way into Quel'Thalas and made the Ghostlands what they are now. This event caused the High Elves to suddenly commit the whole of their force to the war effort.

However, after the dust had settled, they were blaming the Alliance and what they refered to as 'poor leadership by the humans' for the Orcs getting into Quel'Thalas, burning half the forests, and killing so many elves. The High Elves almost left the Alliance then.

Then came the Third War and all the stated events. The High Elves felt the Alliance had abandoned them in their time of need, as they received no help in defending their homeland from the Scourge. Of course, this is because everyone else was either pre-occupied or dead, but in their desperation and grief, they wanted to put blame somewhere, so they blamed the Alliance for not being their allies in that battle.

Even so, what was left of the High Elves, now Blood Elves, still answered the call to defend Dalaran against the Scourge, only to have Garithos give them menial tasks clearly beneath them and when they didn't leave, give them suicidal missions battling the Scourge after having all means support taken away from them by Garithos while still being expected to keep their word and perform their task.

They accepted the all too conveniently timed aid of the Naga purely out of desperation, and managed to perform their duty and defend the city, only to have Garithos do the exact same thing to them again.

That time, however, Garithos saw the Naga leaving on friendly terms. The Blood Elves were branded as traitors for their allegience with the Naga, arrested in the dungeons of Dalaran, and were awaiting execution. This was a rather large number of Blood Elves, including Kael'Thas himself. They only survived that, again due to the aid of the Naga.

After all this, they had very little reason to at all turst the Alliance, let alone like them. Geography did not exactly make things better.

Let us skip ahead a bit, to just before the Blood Elves joined the Horde. Let us look at the situation geographically. Where is Quel'Thalas located? The northern-most tip of the Eastern Kingdoms. What borders it?

The Plaguelands to the south, with the Argent Dawn trying to fight back the Scourge. The Argent Dawn are in a rather hopeless position, outnumbered and dug in. Should the Blood Elves require their aid in Quel'Thalas, do you think they would get it?

Beyond that, what do we have? The Forsaken controlled Lordaeron. In other words, the Horde is practically on their doorstep.

What more do we have, if we keep going south? The Hinterlands. Some Dwarves, a lot of hostile Trolls (not Horde, but still).

Past that? Hillsbrad, fighting against the Forsaken. Arathi Highlands. A small Alliance outpost, surrounded by Orcs and Forsaken. Not to mention the strong Syndicate presence in both these regions. The Blood Elves would get no aid from here.

Beyond that, the Wetlands. Even if Menethil Harbor had the required forces to aid the Blood Elves, they'd have to make their way through Orcs, Forsaken (maybe Trolls) and then Scourge just to get there, not to mention the sheer distance that would need to be traveled. Don't count on them getting there in time in case of an emergency.

Beyond the Wetlands, we have the Dwarves. The Dwarves never had close relations with any Elves and would also have to make their way through all the above mentioned factors just to reach Quel'Thalas.

So, geographically, the Blood Elves were alone, surrounded by Horde and Scourge, with no possible aid from the Alliance and with even less trust for them.

However, the Forsaken were being lead by one of their own, the former Ranger-General, Lady Sylvanas Windrunner. Not to mention that a good portion of the Forsaken are former High Elves who died in the onslaught of the Scourge. (Not all, mind you, just a good portion. The rest are mostly Lordaeron humans.) Desperate for allies, the Blood Elves made contact with her and were well received by her.

With Sylvanas' help, the Blood Elves fought back the Scourge from their homelands (something which has yet to be properly represented in the game) and made it into the Horde, turning those Orcs in Arathi into allies.

Now if we look at their geographical situation, they are surrounded by allies, the Argent Dawn is still friendly to them, the few Alliance in the area are still too busy to deal with them one way or another, and they have the area of three former human kingdoms now protecting them, rather than isolating them, as any hostile Alliance force must make its way through the Orcs, the Forsaken, possibly those Trolls, and the sheer distance just to reach them.

Regardless of what they may think of the Orcs, Tauren and Trolls, joining the Horde was strategically wise and probably saved them from extinction. As well, there is a decent amount of distance between them and those more savage races.

The Alliance, which is lead by humans who have always been at least a little paranoid and xenophobic, now looked at the Blood Elves and were afraid. "Those non-humans, branded traitors, have now joined with our arch nemesis. We know they blamed us for at least three things in the past. They must really hate our guts. Um.. We should maybe find out what they're up to... through spying."

In the Blood Elf starter quests, you find that a Dwarven emissary was allowed to visit them, and he might have begun diplomatic relations, but instead tried to sabotage. A little further along, you find Night Elven spies hiding in the forests and setting up moon crystals (scrying devices) for the purpose of spying. These kinds of actions do not build confidence or trust and only made the Blood Elves more certain in their conviction of going against the Alliance.

We may not all like it, but the Blood Elves have every reason not to want to be a part of the Alliance that they didn't even want to join in the first place, and the Horde have actually done more for them in the past 10 years than the Alliance did for them in the past 2000. (The Troll Wars ended 2 700 years ago, and that debt is more than repaid in my eyes.)

Also, to highlight and clarify one/two points:

The High Elves had a debt to Arathor, not Lordaeron, and it was really only because of Anduin Lothar, the last pure-blooded scion of Arathi, that they joined the Lordaeron Alliance.

The Blood Elves' loyalty to the Forsaken is not because they are what is left of the humans of Lordaeron. It is because the Forsaken leader is the former Ranger-General of their armies and a good portion of the Forsaken are actually High Elves slain in the Third War. These ties may be broken quite soon, though, due to the Forsaken turning into Scourge 2.0 with Sylvanas as its "Lich Queen."

Kudos on your grasp of the lore, Terovar! Although I think if we look at the lore from this perspective we might find why the Sin'dorei are with the Horde and not the Alliance.

However, after the dust had settled, they were blaming the Alliance and what they refered to as 'poor leadership by the humans' for the Orcs getting into Quel'Thalas, burning half the forests, and killing so many elves. The High Elves almost left the Alliance then.

Thank you for your answer. It goes in the way of the alternative I propose to the Blood Elves. If the Blood Elves cannot join the Alliance as a playable race for the reasons you provided, the High Elves could join the Alliance as I mentionned, due to the reasons mentioned in my two posts of page 3. The Silver Covenant has joined the Alliance Vanguard (a -military- Alliance organization) for multiple reasons. They rejected the Sunreavers from Dalaran, surely still believing in a pro-Alliance position for Dalaran and also due to the fact Blood Elves abuse magic relentlessly and have trouble mastering their addiction. As for the xenophobia matter, present especially amongst Humans and Night Elves (not all of them by the way), it isnt a big obstacle for the acceptance of the High Elves. First of all, some of them have lived in the Kingdom of Stormwind and Dalaran for quite some time now, people might have grown more accustomed to them than to the Night Elves per example. Second, and most importantly, Varian Wrynn declared that Death Knights of the Ebon Blade were to be treated as respectable allies of the Alliance. I am sorry, but if you consider Death Knights as LESS controversed people compared to the High Elves, then I dont see where your priorities are. High Elves are certainly more trusted than the ethically controversed Death Knights. Quite a few ethical barriers have been crossed in the recent years in both factions, the Death Knight screen being one, if not the biggest of these barriers. High Elves look like Saints compared to them! Of course there will always be hate toward DKs and xenophobia between certain of the races of the Alliance, but common interests and common history manage to take the priority over these matters. Conclusion : High Elves can be in the Alliance as a playable race and it can be justified storywise.

As for your comment on the Ghostlands. The Orcs did not convert the Ghostlands into what they are today. They pierced in Quel'Thalas during the Second War, yes. They certainly chopped some trees and destroyed some towns, killing Elves in the process. But they did not cast a Plague upon the region now known as the Ghostlands. Arthas and the Scourge did cause the devastation of the Ghostlands while breaking throught the three enchanted elf gates protecting Quel'Thalas, Silvermoon and the Sunwell. Not to mention the Dead Scar going through it, Eversong, and the Isle of Quel'Danas. Dar'Khan Drathir, a high elf, joined Arthas during these events and further reinforced the position of the Scourge in the Ghostlands, hence securing the Scourge operation in Quel'Thalas. He then got killed during the events of the Sunwell Trilogy, when he tried to drain Anveena's powers. She decided to wield the powers of the Sunwell (because she is the incarnation of the Sunwell's power) agaisnt him, and overflowed with power and brilliance, killing Dar'Khan in the process.

The insight you provided on the reason for the Elves joining the Alliance is interesting to a certain point. I agree Lothar was the last descendent of the Arathi bloodline and was a very convincing and charismatic character, especially after all he had done to warn Lordaeron and save the refugees of Stormwind. However, the briefings of the Human campaign of Warcraft 2 explain the joining of the Elves for another reason as well. You see, the Elves had sent a contingent of scouting rangers to survey the Orc threat for themselves in the early stage of the War. But they were captured in the Alterac grasslands by the Orcs and imprisoned near Tarren Mill. Terenas then ordered these Elves to be freed, hoping to enlist the Elves further into the War. These rangers were freed by the Humans, with the help of a cadre of rangers from Silvermoon sent by Quel'Thalas for the occasion. In view of this aggression and a bit later due to the sneak attack of Zul'jin and Orgrim agaisnt Quel'thalas, the Council of Silvermoon then resolved to , I quote, ''Combine the Armies of Quel'thalas with those of Lordaeron''. The ARMIES, not a ''little'' force. The armies. On top of that, ''as a show of their support, a mighty fleet of Elven Destroyers have been sent to help safeguard the Lordaeron mainland''. This is no little support, its the entire army and fleet of Quel'Thalas which was engaged in the War! Especially since the Elves were getting attacked in their own forests!

And before you say this is not canon due to the biased nature of both campaigns, these statements from the Human campaign dont invalidate the developpement of the War (Orcs pushing to Lordaeron Capital City and Eversong Woods, Orgrim discovering the betrayal of Gul'dan who took the Stormreaver and Twilight's Hammer clans to the tomb of Sargeras, then withdrawing his forces to punish Gul'dan for this action. Result, Alliance pushes the Horde back and wins the War).

Sources :
http://www.wowwiki.com/Second_War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D2uy_trfAo (Mission 2 and 3 briefings).

And OP you did not read the Bloodelf is honor the pack the did with both Lordaeron and undead the have make a pack with rest of horde the are basic support the undead and the are with horde for horde the come out to outland to look for there king which show was trun by burinng legion if ally would have help bloodelf the would be on your side.

No i not read wall text but fact is the bloodelf is on horde side atm for it suit the bloodelf need atm im sure most people do know what im talk if the table trun and horde would trun the back to bloodelf i think the would other try to get ally with alliance or go neutral.

Face the fact OP the alliance blow the chance to get bloodelf on there side :)

Im sorry, what did you say?

Terovar.

Ok, I got the Ghostlands a little muddled. Just checked my facts now. It was a part of Eversong Woods, that was then burnt by the Orcs and enslaved red dragons in the Second War, turning it into the Blackened Woods. Then in the Third War, the Scourge ransacked it and it became the Ghostlands, with the Dead Scar and all.

As for the "little force/full armies" I did actually explain that bit, but I understand that such a large wall of text can be difficult to follow, so let me single out just that part.

... when they (the High Elves) did join the Alliance, they did only what was absolutely required of them, sending only a token force to aid the Alliance. That is, until the Orcs made their way into Quel'Thalas and made the (edit)Blackened Woods.(/edit) This event caused the High Elves to suddenly commit the whole of their force to the war effort.

The High Elves still blamed poor human leadership for the Orc invasion. They remained in the Alliance but relations were tense, the High Elves looking to blame and the Humans seeing them as arrogant.

Also, I think what Coogan is trying to say is...
And please correct me if I get thsi wrong, Coogan.
*clears throat and attempts to translate*

"Original Poster (OP), what I said was that the Blood Elves are honoring the pact they made with both Lordaeron and the Forsaken, but they have made a pact with the rest of the Horde too. They give basic support to the Forsaken and they are with the Horde because the Horde helped them get to Outland to look for their king, Kael'Thas, who was found to have been turned by the Burinng Legion. If the Alliance would have helped the Blood Elves get to Outland, they would have been on your side.

No, I did not read the wall text but the fact is that the Blood Elves on Horde side at the moment because it suited the Blood Elven needs at the time. I'm sure most people do know what I'm talking about when I say that if the tables turn and the Horde would turn their backs on the Blood Elves, I think the Blood Elves would either try to return to the Alliance or become/join a neutral faction.

Face the facts, OP. The Alliance blew their chance to get the Blood Elves on there side :)"

The Blood Elves left the Alliance because the lusted for power. Lord Garithos was just a lame excuse so they could feel better about themselves. They are losers, traitors, cowards and as such they fit into the Horde quite nicely.

Yes, it would be nice if they introduced High Elves as those Elves who refused to follow Kael`Theas and his quest for power and remained loyal to their original ideals.

Blood Elves have nothing to do with the alliance that left them to die in the Third War to save their precious skin and when they accepted the aid of the naga the alliace were ready to execute them.
Also Blood Elves have no love for the traitorous High Elf brothers who joined the alliance after all.And Horde barbaric?What's Varian then a saint?Sometimes allies are worse than Horde and proved themselves.Both sides are bloodthirsty and also the Blood Elf addiction to magic is not tolarated by the alliance.
Were not for Aethas Sunreaver and Rhonin the High Elves of Dalaran, with Vereesa as leader,would have slaughtered the Blood Elves you must know how much they loved them

10/07/2011 02:26Posted by Blueveins

The High Elves are the only noble elves left together with the night elves and they remain with us

i laughed at this, naming the most hypocritical groups in the game and calling them noble, they suit your faction perfectly indeed.

Anyone claiming to know his/her lore knows why the Sin'dorei are in the Horde, and will also know that it is the Silver Covenant wich is utter lorelol especialy their leader, who was made up by a bad writer and has without any reason this passionate hatred against her own people. and in Cata we see her trying to make claim on her "home" wich she did not even defend when it was laid to waste...

Oh to the dwarf paladin, you are obviously clueless to lore so please don't embarass yourself any further :)

*reads kalannas posts*

everything that can be said about this topic has been said.
end of discussion.

10/07/2011 12:56Posted by Serapha

Anyone claiming to know his/her lore knows why the Sin'dorei are in the Horde, and will also know that it is the Silver Covenant wich is utter lorelol especialy their leader, who was made up by a bad writer and has without any reason this passionate hatred against her own people. and in Cata we see her trying to make claim on her "home" wich she did not even defend when it was laid to waste...

Well, except there have existed High Elves in Stormwind, Theremore, Dalaran (which used to be Alliance only) and other Alliance towns, I think I'm gonna say "No".

I will also note there have been a big theme of racism throughout the game (namely Humans and Orcs, but also a big part within the Elven-society). That Knaak is a talentless writer who think this is called "World of Dragons", I agree, but the Silver Covenant being it, I disagree. Heck, I'dd rather ask how the @£$# they were accepted by Dalaran.
Besides, it's not ONLY the Blood Elves the Silver Covenant oppose. It's not like the orcs and trolls killed thousands of high elves in the past...

Owait...

I apolagize for not reading the entire thread, but we have enough elves on Wow (:

1) There are already 2 elf races on WoW. We really don't need any more.
2) "OMG BLIZZARD JUST COPIED THE BELF MODEL INSTEAD OF ADDING SOMETHING NEW THAT'S SO LAZY!!!111!" QQ... No thanks :S