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What's the answer? We do hear the feedback. When we have looked at the issue, it has simply just seemed too difficult – too tricky – to resolve in a way that we're happy with. Although I'm happy there's a blue response I can't believe that you actually say that because it's difficult it's better to do nothing. The whole problem of too much damage in low level pvp occurred when you eliminated skill levels or whatever they were called. Still you have so much tools to do sth - like I believe you have the possibility to set the percents for each skill based on the level. You can just buff hp by X percent. You can just lower damage by X percent. Anything would be better than this. Also, consider one thing. You are losing subscribers now, right? You want to have more, right? Do you think that when a new person will go to level 10 bg (full greens), he will want to come back to WoW ? |
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^ this as a person who went to play rift when it was released regardless of all its faults end game, low level pvp 10-49 was an amazing experiance the best part of the game imo. They balanced the low brackets by giving everyone in the same class regardless of gear and level the exact same damage, HP/mana, crit chance ect. sure their were still some classes that had an advantage over another class but it was fairly balanced, their wasn't any 1 shotting until max level where the problems began. |
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Edited by Espada on 12/08/11 14:15 (BST)
If you think that people will quit the game over a bad low level PvP experience, then those people are not worth holding on to anyhow, seeing as any bad experience will push them towards cancelling their subscription.
Low level PvP is fine and it evens out as you level up. I have seen basically every class dominate a WSG/AB at any point. It's simply about taking the right spec for your class and not entering the BG as a Holy Priest, expecting to 'own it up'. |
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Edited by Iloveala on 12/08/11 14:15 (BST)
Zomg, Blue Post.
It seems the hundreds of threads that have been created about this over the past few months finally got a single reply. Now we just need one addressing the balancing concepts behind PvP; can you just sop balancing around 3v3? It got dropped as an eSport because it was just a mess in Cata; surely that's an indication that it's either: Not as popular as you think or It's time to change your balancing philosophy?
Hahahahahaha, I'm sorry - You do realise that posting this from the fotm leveling class in PvP is highly contradictory and plain stupid? |
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Disallow heirlooms up to lvl. 20 (in BGs) in slots which most normal people won't any any item equipped!
Rescale low level attack abilities by at least ~ 40%! Elite mobs drop like flies up to lvl. 40+ instances. It is just ridiculous that up to lvl. 40 tanks (both warrior and paladin) are "the best dps" by far. So many times tanks deal 40% of party total damage. Due to thus above aggro at lower levels just do not matter, (if tank is at least half decent!) which is another complete turnaround from a principle that Cata dungeons are "hard" (in questing gear) and that AGGRO SHOULD MATTER AT ALL LEVELS NOT ONLY FROM 70+! Another point of that is casters are quite prohibitive to play at lower levels in dungeons. Elite mob is dead before player can cast a 3th spell on exact that mob! Rescale attack abilities down and increase elite hp by 40%! |
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Edited by Manimarco on 12/08/11 14:39 (BST)
new players have no idea if high level bgs will be any different to getting oneshotted in the 10-14 bracket do they? Low level PvP is fine and it evens out as you level up. I have seen basically every class dominate a WSG/AB at any point. It's simply about taking the right spec for your class and not entering the BG as a Holy Priest, expecting to 'own it up'. holy priests are actually very powerfull and usefull in the 60 twink bracket as a disc priest will die in a number of hits from a rogue/pala/mage and be forced to the GY while a holy priest will have 10seconds (not sure of the time) of uninterupted healing before going to the gy. Disc may be a better healer at that level but holy is far more useful to the group. edit - 15seconds |
We are not deaf to the concerns raised about low-level PvP. We feel it needs some attention too. Don't be stupid. Nothing is being considered now. Their stance on this has been the same for a long time, they won't do a thing. |
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We are not deaf to the concerns raised about low-level PvP. We feel it needs some attention too.The Heirloom is only part of the problem though.Yeah, we don't necessarily feel that it's all just "a heirloom issue," but more to do with time investments reaping rewards that give too great an advantage. While we're on the subject of PvP, when will Hunters at the end-game level be fixed for PvP, given the gigantic number of issues they currently have? Given that some of the best players in the world have offered their insight, proposed viable fixes and pointed out the equally large number of bugs that require fixing, just for Hunters, I find it astonishing that we haven't had a single reply on any of our subjects yet. |
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Why cant wow focus on anything else than lvl 85?
The low lvl balance is so bad that some classes like warrior and warlock always is the worst in a BG! Now after cata even lvl 80 is unbalanced :( |
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Edited by Nanami on 12/08/11 15:22 (BST)
Another invisible debuff in BGs to reduce damage and healing by 30% (maybe more on healing). Also, remove the extra miss/resist chance from level diff.
Can't be that hard and would serve as a temporary sollution. Ed.: oh, and put lvl75 req on Cata engi items, I'm not willing to waste any more gold on synapse. |
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Edited by Kyrith on 12/08/11 15:36 (BST)
This is appreciated, but could the results of this attention please come sooner rather than later? This has been a problem since Wrath which has grown far worse in Cata and while low-level BGs can still be a lot of fun, they can also be an immense source of frustration for many players.
The guy with a full set of heirlooms will dominate the battlefield against people who are just leveling up a new character on a new realm, or the people leveling up their first character ever. The difference is a marked one in comparison to the days of people using twink blues and epics in battlegrounds, even if the end result (of frustration and disappointment for the people on the receiving end of 1-shot kills) is the same. Blizzard quite rightly separated XP-off and leveling battlegrounds to provide a more balanced low-level battleground experience by segregating twinked characters from leveling characters. Yet at the same time players were given the ultimate twinking items whose power is way out of line with typical leveling/questing/dungeoning gear and whose stats leveled with the player, thereby providing a legitimised means to 'twink' in Xp-on battlegrounds. These items give a massive advantage over players who are new to the game or who haven't acquired a full set of heirlooms for their alts for whatever reason, thereby returning leveling battlegrounds to the same messy state as before due to equipment imbalances. It makes no sense whatsoever and has the air of reckless game design decisions. What kind of impression does it give to new players of WoW's PvP experience if their early attempts at having some fun in a battleground are ruined by someone who they stand absolutely no chance against regardless of skill, simply because of the other person having a set of items whose stats are entirely incongruous with reasonably-attainable gear at a particular pre-85 level?
I don't mean to twist your words and I understand that the cynical assumption I'm about to make is probably not what you meant - But can we please just clarify that this has very little to do with 'niche playstyles'. There is nothing niche about wanting to enjoy some semblance of balance in pre-85 battlegrounds while leveling a new character. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've enjoyed the prospect of doing battlegrounds from LV10 onwards on my characters, especially since experience gain was added to them; but the actual reality of low-level battlegrounds is a joke because of these issues.
I can fully understand why this is a difficult issue to tackle from a development point of view due to issues of balance, scaling, pve vs pvp, the cata spell-rank redesign, the broad lack of resilience at lower levels, etc. On the other hand, it's fairly obvious to me that while Heirlooms are not the sole cause of this problem, banning them from battlegrounds or restricting them to XP-off battlegrounds only would go a hell of a long way towards fixing these problems; given the massive difference in power between Heirlooms and the kind of gear most characters have while leveling. Putting resilience on the low-level blue-quality dungeon-reward items could also help, but giving players 'pvp' gear of a sort from doing dungeons would be incongruous with how the game plays out at 85. ---- Alternatively, change resilience gearing somewhat: ---- -Remove resilience from pvp gear at every level. -Instead, give all players baseline resilience of 40% damage reduction from 1 to 85. -Make epic-quality PvE items apply minus-resilience so that their use is still discourged from PvP as it is now. -Possibly make resilience affect healing done as well, to prevent healers from becoming invulnerable. This would mean that pvp becomes more balanced at every level, as well as reducing the gap between leveling characters and heirloomed characters, or fresh 85s in crafted gear facing people with Ruthless weapons in BGs. It would also allow developers to more easily tweak the reduction % value per point of resilience as necessary without worrying about a broad range of resilience values seen across the board. |
That's a misinterpretation. We are quite prepared to attend to difficult issues, and we are doing exactly that for max-level PvP, as that's where the player focus is. We are aware of the issues in the low-levels and we do want to address them. |
#116
12/08/2011
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What's the answer? We do hear the feedback. When we have looked at the issue, it has simply just seemed too difficult – too tricky – to resolve in a way that we're happy with. I thought Cataclysm was supposed to be the answer, I enjoyed TBC though I did prefer bg to arena. Wrath was terrible because "you've been wotlkd" stupid burst so I quit, I heard that in Cataclysm the pace was to be much slower and there would be less focus on Arena however the pace was not slower and I was severely dissapointed that I had resubscribed. The answer is simply to reduce all healing and damage in the game. I don't understand why it is so high? Anyway I don't like WoW anymore.
Take the time and effort spent on making low lvls do more damage and instead make them do less damage, basically do the opposite of what you've been doing (not you personally but the developers in charge of damage and hp pools)
Things aren't great full stop. |
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Edited by Korette on 12/08/11 15:45 (BST)
I am not sure you are aware of the issues though, or at least the full extent of them. Almost every blue post on the issue understates the level of imbalance at low levels To quote myself: - What exactly do the devs understand about low levels? If endgame were magically made 110% perfect what would they specifically tackle? When you say it "isn't in an ideal state" it seems to me that you are understating the problem and I am worried that when it comes to it that you might not realise everything that needs addressing |
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Edited by Wryxian on 12/08/11 15:50 (BST)
Your demeanor is appreciated. That particular choice of words is meant to be a description of a group of people and a playing style not representative of the majority of the PvP playerbase, which reside in the max level. |
#119
12/08/2011
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Is this not taking into consideration that people like to bg whilst levelling? I wouldn't call that a niche playstyle more a core component of the game, I know I for one would not like to lvl a character purely through quests and instances and only do my first pvp at lvl 85, even when you couldn't lvl in bgs people still went in them to experience a large part of the game whilst levelling their characters |
