World of Warcraft®

I really don't know why Warlocks are complaining in PvE. Sure, Destruction is underpowered in compare with Demonology and Affliction and Demonology is cinda clunky with summoning demons with hardcasts and ofcourse it is annoying that the Doomguard isn't available every single try. Overall though Warlocks are in a very good spot in PvE, we have great DPS and survivability.

Now.. the counterquestion: Did you play lock in 4.2?

Locks must have the best dps in raids.
because they are pure dps
they wear cloth armors
they have most difficult dps rotation.
but SP(with having maximum only 6 spell rotation )has more than 5 k dps than Locks:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/
and dps of locks fall down more than SP or Balance when they have to move.and it is rly suck:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ragnaros/25N/100/14/60/default/
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ragnaros/10N/100/14/60/default/
So who dont play locks in 4.2 now?
you can send your worldoflogs here to discuss about it

Alright... since when locks must have the best dps in a raid?
Really. Rogues, hunters or mages could be the best dpsing class 2. Pure dps right?
Every spec designed for damage should be able to pull off the most damage.

You however are so ignorant, you can't even see that you just make it worse.
Only those who aren't able to play a warlock and claim that warlocks are
Underpowered and totally broken make posts like you do.

Raidbots puts all the data together, it combines every single fight. Its not DPS, its a specscore
Every single fight has different classes with more advantages, mind seer spamming ftw?
To be honnest, Ragnaros p2, p4 and p5 are dps breakers for warlocks, dont you get that?
Another point is that we have to trigger the magmatraps in p1. We cant tunnel Ragnaros.
Really, next time post a encounter where warlocks have benefits like Shannox HC.
Do tell me though how we lose more dps while moving then a Shadow or a Boomkin.
Every fight with movement I encountered both classes lose significant DPS too.
Do we have a difficult rotation? I don't think so but I already told you that in a other thread...
?

I have just the way to bring this to blizzards attention. COLLECTIVE WARLOCK DELETION! That'll show blizzard how SRS you are about your dissatisfaction! Go! Do it now! FOR JUSTICE!

Bonus: the rest of us won't have to listen to this incessant whining anymore.

this.

06/08/2011 00:32Posted by Marduke

therefore this corporation we are angry with must be stupid and lazy

Your logic goes faulty there. I am not saying they are stupid or lazy (well ok patch notes would agree) but my point was it is far more likely they are oblivious. (Yes i am a firm believer of ocams razor).

Not quoting the rest of your post to save space.

But i can see your point. But dont fool yourself into thinking blizzard is entirely blameless in this and its just the community that whines.

it is often said that threads are read but not commented in. Now would it really be that difficult for blizz to just implement a system so that any thread read by a blue in the forums has a mark next to its name so people know it has been read? I think that would help a lot of forum posters feel listened to, and less ignored by blizz, and thus quenching their rage.

Even if it is not possible to create a code to show a thread has been read, can't they just copy + paste a generic response saying something like "this thread has been read and we may consider its points". Largely to accomplish the same task as my previous idea, to make the forum community feel like they have been listened to and blizzard acknowledges the problems they have, their disagreements and generally like they actually care about the future of the game.

Currently we get neither of these, and the patch notes and questions from the devs leave an awful lot to be desired. I mean when have we had a more substantial explanation than "It was causing problems in pvp so it was removed"?

I think a lot of warlock players would stop raging (or at least rage less, or more constructively) if we got some answers about what must be incredibly obvious oversights by blizzard (take impending doom not benefiting soul fire as well, or ISF feeling incredibly clunky for destro), and more subtle ones would just be a bonus (such as doomguard tripple dipping).

So yes, i can see why non-constructive raging annoys you marduke, but i think by now a lot of people do it (well i certainly do) because blizzard just don't seem to care or spend even 20 minutes of thought on warlock development.

Alright... since when locks must have the best dps in a raid?
Really. Rogues, hunters or mages could be the best dpsing class 2. Pure dps right?

Read carefully mate.the reason not just pure dps:

Locks must have the best dps in raids.
because they are pure dps
they wear cloth armors
they have most difficult dps rotation.

rogues and hunters dont wear cloth
And mages dont have difficult rotation in comparison with locks
its not mean warlocks must dps 2-3k more than other classes....just a little more

You however are so ignorant, you can't even see that you just make it worse.
Only those who aren't able to play a warlock and claim that warlocks are
Underpowered and totally broken make posts like you do.
Raidbots puts all the data together, it combines every single fight. Its not DPS, its a specscore
Every single fight has different classes with more advantages, mind seer spamming ftw?
To be honnest, Ragnaros p2, p4 and p5 are dps breakers for warlocks, dont you get that?
Another point is that we have to trigger the magmatraps in p1. We cant tunnel Ragnaros.
Really, next time post a encounter where warlocks have benefits like Shannox HC.
Do tell me though how we lose more dps while moving then a Shadow or a Boomkin.
Every fight with movement I encountered both classes lose significant DPS too.
Do we have a difficult rotation? I don't think so but I already told you that in a other thread...
?

seriously are you stupid?raidbot shows affliction locks that playing in 25HC have 1.6k dps lower than SP and about 2.5k lower than druid balance(you know the meaning of overall,right?)
in shannox HC,affliction(and not other specs)just has 0.2 k dps more than SP:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Shannox/25H/100/14/60/default/


we lose more dps than SP or Balance because about 40% of our Dot Dps rely on haunt and shadow embarrassment but for SP or Balance not like us.and because of this SP is top of dps in Ragnaros:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ragnaros/25N/100/14/60/default/

SP can trigger magmatraps even better than us
more than this,in overall data destro is in last rank:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/
about 10k dps lower than Balance druid.
and you still say locks not suck?lol

i suggest you first read about other classes and their rotation and abilitys then say lock not sucks
i discussed with another guy that say locks not suck in here:
<a href="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2423162661?page=1">http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2423162661?page=1</a>
you can read it

06/08/2011 01:10Posted by Domdon

Raidbots puts all the data together, it combines every single fight. Its not DPS, its a specscore

Read the menus and learn to use it, you can look at DPS in their means, medians and modes, Standard Deviations, check all parses or just the top 100, or even just the absolute maxima, as well as a plethora of other breakdowns of the data.

rogues and hunters dont wear cloth
And mages dont have difficult rotation in comparison with locks
its not mean warlocks must dps 2-3k more than other classes....just a little more

So because we wear clothes we are justified to be better the nother classes who dont? Im sorry, but I don't see any logica in that statement. Its just plain ignorance. I still don't get it why you think that Warlocks have a difficult rotation/priority list. Ofcourse it is not comparable with spamming Arcaneblast and Arcane Missiles but it is damn easy for singletarget and in AoE fights. If you havn't figured this out yet though I come back with your own question:

05/08/2011 21:59Posted by Cussed

So who dont play locks in 4.2 now?

06/08/2011 12:35Posted by Cussed

seriously are you stupid?raidbot shows affliction locks that playing in 25HC have 1.6k dps lower than SP and about 2.5k lower than druid balance(you know the meaning of overall,right?)

First of all, let me remember you what you said first:

but SP(with having maximum only 6 spell rotation )has more than 5 k dps than Locks:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

See my point? More then 5k DPS then Locks? On top of that I can repeat myself with explaining some bossmechanics where certain specs have benefits then other specs.
However...

we lose more dps than SP or Balance because about 40% of our Dot Dps rely on haunt and shadow embarrassment but for SP or Balance not like us.and because of this SP is top of dps in Ragnaros:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ragnaros/25N/100/14/60/default/

Lets come back to Ragnaros 25N then since you postet that link once more. Ofcourse our DoTs don't deal enough damage since in p2 and p4 the adds simply dont live long enough to apply 3 stacks of Shadow Embrance and a Haunt on every single elemental. On top of that a SP has some nice burst with something called Mindblast and they have a filler that deals more damage then our Shadowbolt. A Boomkin just has hard ticking DoTs without the need to apply some cind of debuff first. So what? It are classmechanics that have been there since WotLK and I don't see a point to complain about it.
In a tank'n spank fight where you have to move, lets say... Baleroc 25HC a Shadowpriest gets locked out since they have to bear the burden to get the full 25 stacks of the cristals. We however can just tunnel Baleroc while taking up to 13 stacks. Do we hear Shadows complaining about it? I don't.

06/08/2011 12:35Posted by Cussed

SP can trigger magmatraps even better than us

Oh really? So you think Shadows should just trigger the trap and cast Levitate while falling down? You know how much GCDs that would cost them? You know that in a encounter you want to get the best DPS possible right? By achieving this you have to maximize the raid DPS. Doing this you dont want a Shadowpriest to be useless for like 5 seconds when a warlock can do it in 2. Best class however to trigger magmatraps is and always will be a mage. Blink rules.

more than this,in overall data destro is in last rank:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/
about 10k dps lower than Balance druid.
and you still say locks not suck?lol

This made me grin. You are comparing a at the moment very weak spec with a currently very strong spec. Congratulations. Now lets compare a firemage, subrogue, unholydk, armswarior and a survivalhunter with a moonkin... OMG? They cant even reach 27k just like a destrolock!
There are always, and there will always be, very weak specs in every single patch. It now happens to be the destrolock, so what? During WotLK a destrolock was damn strong, even a while so !@#$ing overpowered that they twohitted everything in the arena? Did you hear Warlocks complaining about the state of the other 2 specs? I dont think so. Who knows will a destrolock be at rank 1 once again in 4.3, I honesty don't care. I play my Warlock because I enjoy all 3 specs. One of them happens to be slightly underpowered, fine. Then I'll just play Affliction or Demonology, I enjoy those spec too.
Apparently you do not enjoy your warlock, go reroll a Shadowpriest then if you think that they are so much better.

06/08/2011 12:35Posted by Cussed

i suggest you first read about other classes and their rotation and abilitys then say lock not sucks

Funny that I have a lvl 85 mage alt and a lvl 85 shadow alt, ofcourse I don't know where I am talking about / Irony off.

i discussed with another guy that say locks not suck in here:
<a href="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2423162661?page=1">http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2423162661?page=1</a>
you can read it

I'm sorry, but I don't see you discussing anything in that thread, I just see you claiming that you are right and others are wrong. Like I already said... pure ignorance.

Posted by Domdon
Raidbots puts all the data together, it combines every single fight. Its not DPS, its a specscore

Read the menus and learn to use it, you can look at DPS in their means, medians and modes, Standard Deviations, check all parses or just the top 100, or even just the absolute maxima, as well as a plethora of other breakdowns of the data.

Jessica, it was supposed to be a reaction on the statement made by mr Cussed:

but SP(with having maximum only 6 spell rotation )has more than 5 k dps than Locks:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

I'm sorry that I did not make that clear.

Whats with the illogical reaction marduke?

action > reaction. most of the community experiences bad mechnics, flaws and bugs and subjectively bad performance with the warlock.

what are we suppoost to do? do like you and !@#$ about it or cancel our subs or delete our warlock? guess what, if you buy a car, and that car has bad mechanics, flaws and bugs and has a subjectively bad performance you are not gonna sit there and be like:

"Oh well, im sure the company who sold that car to me is very renown in the society, it cant be wrong. It must be me. I will man up and not whine about it."

dont give me the "But i will research what car i buy so i dont get the above happening" because you should go and read what the warlock discription says and it does not prepare what customers are going to get when they create this class.

The situation right now is purely a misleading one from a certain company who does not deliver what they state in their terms of agreement. everyone has the right to "whine" if said company does not fulfill to a customers expectation.

06/08/2011 14:01Posted by Domdon

So because we wear clothes we are justified to be better the nother classes who dont? Im sorry, but I don't see any logica in that statement.

mate you are not deserved to say my statement is logical or not.why?because you didnt even know you must hit capped your hero first.
wearing cloth is a Infirmity.right?so cloth wearers must have something better than other classes.

06/08/2011 14:01Posted by Domdon

Ofcourse it is not comparable with spamming Arcaneblast and Arcane Missiles but it is damn easy for singletarget and in AoE fights. If you havn't figured this out yet though I come back with your own question

its not easy.who says its easy?could you say to me your rotation?because i`m gonna thinking you has wrong rotation after noticed that your hero not even hit capped
if you claim to locks are good in pve you must show me your proof(for example send us your worldoflogs)

06/08/2011 14:01Posted by Domdon

See my point? More then 5k DPS then Locks? On top of that I can repeat myself with explaining some bossmechanics where certain specs have benefits then other specs.

i cant understand what are you want to say.if you want to say i`m wrong in talking about Sp can dps 5k more than locks.yes your right.but I`m insist on my words:
we lose more dps than SP or Balance because about 40% of our Dot Dps rely on haunt and shadow embarrassment but for SP or Balance not like us
i say it about ragnaros not adds

06/08/2011 14:01Posted by Domdon

Lets come back to Ragnaros 25N then since you postet that link once more. Ofcourse our DoTs don't deal enough damage since in p2 and p4 the adds simply dont live long enough to apply 3 stacks of Shadow Embrance and a Haunt on every single elemental. On top of that a SP has some nice burst with something called Mindblast and they have a filler that deals more damage then our Shadowbolt. A Boomkin just has hard ticking DoTs without the need to apply some cind of debuff first. So what? It are classmechanics that have been there since WotLK and I don't see a point to complain about it.

lol
these classmechanics is the problem.its not important that these classmechanics have been there since WotLK or even tBC

Oh really? So you think Shadows should just trigger the trap and cast Levitate while falling down? You know how much GCDs that would cost them? You know that in a encounter you want to get the best DPS possible right? By achieving this you have to maximize the raid DPS. Doing this you dont want a Shadowpriest to be useless for like 5 seconds when a warlock can do it in 2. Best class however to trigger magmatraps is and always will be a mage. Blink rules.

lol
i said SP can trigger it better than us.its not meaning SP must do it.

06/08/2011 14:01Posted by Domdon

This made me grin. You are comparing a at the moment very weak spec with a currently very strong spec. Congratulations. Now lets compare a firemage, subrogue, unholydk, armswarior and a survivalhunter with a moonkin... OMG? They cant even reach 27k just like a destrolock!

sub rogue,unholy dk,arms war are more useful in pvp not pve.and if you want to discuss about surv hunter or mage dps its not the place for this.you can open a topic in proper forum and talk about it.
i just talk about my class.and use raidbot data to complain problem.

There are always, and there will always be, very weak specs in every single patch. It now happens to be the destrolock, so what? During WotLK a destrolock was damn strong, even a while so !@#$ing overpowered that they twohitted everything in the arena? Did you hear Warlocks complaining about the state of the other 2 specs? I dont think so. Who knows will a destrolock be at rank 1 once again in 4.3, I honesty don't care. I play my Warlock because I enjoy all 3 specs. One of them happens to be slightly underpowered, fine. Then I'll just play Affliction or Demonology, I enjoy those spec too.
Apparently you do not enjoy your warlock, go reroll a Shadowpriest then if you think that they are so much better.

you know what is your problem?your problem is that you cant figure out lock not mean affliction lock.

discussing with you is boring.so i give up.Just suggest you first learn to hit cap your hero then talk about about it:)

Hell yeah, I already hoped that you would respond, thanks for that. Just sit back and relax while I'm going to take down your argumentation (I am disgracing that word by calling your 'discussion' a argumentation).

mate you are not deserved to say my statement is logical or not.why?because you didnt even know you must hit capped your hero first.
wearing cloth is a Infirmity.right?so cloth wearers must have something better than other classes.

I don't deserve it to say that your statement is logical or not? Ever heared about something called 'freedom of opinion/expression'? No?
And since when do I have to be hitcaped if I can actualy produce more damage while beeing 0.3% below the cap as a Affliciontlock? Ever heared of Simulationcraft where you can virtually optimize your char to maximize your DPS? However, if you do know Simulationcraft and you have other findings while simulating MY warlock while having the hitcap and dealing more DPS, please inform me.
Since I recently got the duty to go fulltime demo though I reforged without doing some calculations with Simulationcraft, and indeed, it was better for me to get hitcaped for maximizing my DPS. So I actually have to thank you... !@#$!
About the cloth armor... I am asuming that your point of view is PvE only. Since when is wearing clothes a infirmity? Sure, if we get agro we die faster because we don't have the amount of armor platewielders have but we have something called 'defensive abilities' to prevent getting agro. If you do pull agro though... then I blaim your tank for not keeping up with a warlock... Since Cataclysm hit the live servers I never had agro problems during encounters (unless you are playing a demolock @ Lord Rhylith without giving the tanks the chance to get agro, but that is just bad gameplay). Since I am not sure if you are aware that the amount of armor has nothing to do with magical damage taken... now you are. By the way, we have Soul Link :) Saying that cloth wielders must have have something better then others... again this plain ignorance.

its not easy.who says its easy?could you say to me your rotation?because i`m gonna thinking you has wrong rotation after noticed that your hero not even hit capped
if you claim to locks are good in pve you must show me your proof(for example send us your worldoflogs)

I am sure my rotation is fine and I honestly don't care if you think its not. If you want proof that I am performing decent, here are the bosses we killed yesterday:
Shannox HC: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hrdh5hvmwewlg2uw/sum/damageDone/?s=3311&e=3676 (I got Ragefaced because a hunter and a mage couldn't crit, now imagine I survived with a executionphase including Bloodlust comming up... I focused Shannox btw and did not multidot)
Lord Rhyolith: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hrdh5hvmwewlg2uw/sum/damageDone/?s=4501&e=4778
Alysrazor: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hrdh5hvmwewlg2uw/sum/damageDone/?s=6699&e=7196 (I got ranked third, something really has to be wrong with my gearsetup and rotation)
Baleroc: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hrdh5hvmwewlg2uw/sum/damageDone/?s=9803&e=10123 (I could have performed better, I admit)
and our pathatic Majordomo trie: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hrdh5hvmwewlg2uw/sum/damageDone/?s=11535&e=12034
Is this enough proof for you to analyse?

08/08/2011 05:28Posted by Cussed

we lose more dps than SP or Balance because about 40% of our Dot Dps rely on haunt and shadow embarrassment but for SP or Balance not like us

If you are unable to keep Haunt and Shadow Embrace up while moving then you seriously sould ask yourself if you are underperforming. I don't have a problem with keeping those buffs up and I bet that most warlocks with some decent skill dont have that problem either.

lol
these classmechanics is the problem.its not important that these classmechanics have been there since WotLK or even tBC

No, they are not a problem. They have been there since WotLK (excluding Haunt) and Blizzard nor the players seemed troubled about them. On top of that Affliction is one of the few specs that did not changed at all once Cataclysm hit the live servers. Blizzard's game developers seem very satisfied about Affliction, so am I.

08/08/2011 05:28Posted by Cussed

aid SP can trigger it better than us.its not meaning SP must do it

You just powned yourself. A Shadowpriest is better at walking into a trap then we are? Are warlocks that crippled? Or is it just you?

sub rogue,unholy dk,arms war are more useful in pvp not pve.and if you want to discuss about surv hunter or mage dps its not the place for this.you can open a topic in proper forum and talk about it.
i just talk about my class.and use raidbot data to complain problem.

I never wanted to discuss about those specs, I just used them as a compare. On top of that you missed my point (I explained it in the part below the text you quoted). It is my point of view on the current state of a Destructionwarlock, if you disagree, fine, just say it and confince me that I am wrong.

you know what is your problem?your problem is that you cant figure out lock not mean affliction lock.
discussing with you is boring.so i give up.Just suggest you first learn to hit cap your hero then talk about about it:)

This is like: "You are wrong. You just play Affliction. You arn't even hitcaped. You don't deserve it to respond to my intelligent argumentation You are inferior." Did I already mentioned that you are showing how ignorant you are by saying so?
You don't even know me but you are somehow able to claim that I am doing everything wrong and that I have no idea where I am talking about, thats not how you have a discussion... you don't even profide me with proof that I am wrong and you are right. Sad.

I on the other hand hope that you do respond instead of giving up :)

Locks being the worst class probably explains why there was warlocks in 7 out of the 8 teams at battlenet invitational :]

08/08/2011 12:22Posted by Skrillx

Locks being the worst class probably explains why there was warlocks in 7 out of the 8 teams at battlenet invitational :]

You did watch what they did right? Spam Fear and UA; little else. That's the problem: We don't have anything else, take those away or nerf them and we're hopeless, keep them as they are and in that situation with a Resto Shaman and peeler and it's OP.

You did watch what they did right? Spam Fear and UA; little else.

A lot of green fire too :)

08/08/2011 12:24Posted by Jessicka

Locks being the worst class probably explains why there was warlocks in 7 out of the 8 teams at battlenet invitational :]

You did watch what they did right? Spam Fear and UA; little else.

Yeah I did, what's your point? If you find Warlock playstyle boring, don't play it, this doesn't mean the class is crap.

08/08/2011 12:26Posted by Skrillx

Yeah I did, what's your point? If you find Warlock playstyle boring, don't play it, this doesn't mean the class is crap.

It means it's crap outside of that very limited aspect of PvP. Kinda bored of "It's balanced around 3v3", because it's clearly not; we don't even have much of a choice of partners. And it's also clearly not balanced, because in that small bracket it's actually appears to be OP.

And for the record, no I've barely touched PvP this expansion; I used to enjoy Destruction but where it feels like every melee class has retained or had their lolburst buffed, I've had mine completely and utterly removed.

08/08/2011 12:26Posted by Skrillx

You did watch what they did right? Spam Fear and UA; little else.

Yeah I did, what's your point? If you find Warlock playstyle boring, don't play it, this doesn't mean the class is crap.

Don't bother reasoning with them.

Yeah I did, what's your point? If you find Warlock playstyle boring, don't play it, this doesn't mean the class is crap.

Don't bother reasoning with them.

Them? :)

Skrillx here, and apparently i'm the only warlock that can admit we're a strong class :>

08/08/2011 13:03Posted by Heatz

Skrillx here, and apparently i'm the only warlock that can admit we're a strong class :>

I don't think I've seen anyone denying Affliction Warlocks are strong in the competative bracket of PvP with the right composition. It's the other 90%+ of a Warlock's PvP experience most people, myself included seem to feel we have a very hard time. Especially if we're not a fan of Affliction as a PvP spec.

I agree, but 3v3 is still what it's balanced around, no matter if people like it or not.

give warlocks stealth ;). Imagine the possibilities!