Topic Frost Mages are >NOT< Overpowered.
Edited by Каббал on 02/05/12 22:44 (BST)
Unkillable class, with endless control, imune to stuns. Ofc not OP...
3 good specs in PVP and 3 good specs in PVE. Need some more buffs and this class will be OK.
All they need is AOE ice lance, no GCD after deepfreeze and evocation without cooldown.
i have to say out of all the classes ive played ( i have all 85) mages are by far one of the most ridiculous, one of the easiest and also one of the most boring classes to play. ive never known a class that just critted so hard but also had the survivabilty most classes just dream of. i was just in a tol barad where i was crit 30k by a mage, with 4.1k res. these numbers i can only achieve on low resil/pve geared ppl. but low and behold they just cut through me like paper...no other class can do this, except mages.
ive found the problem with mages is the fundermental machanics of the class, and that there is to much slowing abilities and other abilities with very short cds. getting close enough to a mage to attack it is hard enough, but even just hitting a mage shoots yourself in the foot because of ice barrier and mage armour. deep freeze + fingers of frost should NOT do as much dmg as it does to ress geared players. y can i only hit 20k tops against a ress target when a mage can do it with an instant cast spell? and then there is the cds and survivability abilities, so many and in all honesty to many. they seem to have every ability every other class has. for example, ice block is similar to paladins bubble. invisibilty same as prowl and stealth. stuns, the same as other various classes. polymorth, which is the same as hex. blink which in many respects is a similar ability to charge. so many different forms of dmg absorbtion effects as other classes. remove curse....evocation, which unlike locks can be cast in combat? then add to that the other things in there arsenal like mirror image, the longest silence of any class, a pet, ring of frost. the point im trying to make is its reaching the point where mages literally have every other class abilities, slightly altered or not as advanced, but they have them none the less.
now im all for balance but at the moment there is a large divide with mages compared to other classes with the possible exeption of blood dks. i wouldnt mind so much if there was an natural strong class against mages, but there isnt, and thats what i dislike about it. but to fix this problem would require vast alterations to the key mechanics of mages as ive already said, something which isnt going to happen any time soon.
ghostcrawler has added these abilites in, not really thinking of the overall implications these would bring, and now that these are added its now near enough impossible to remove without altering the main mechanics of the class which what makes them enjoyable for mages.
apologies for the longness :)
Can't tell if you're trolling or not, but either way I feel compelled to respond before some poor other forum dweller reads it and thinks "My god, this guy is on to something here!"
1. Saying that mage abilities are carbon copies of other classes' abilities is just ridiculous. Polymorph a copy of Hex? Evocation a copy of Harvest? Puh-lease....
2. The reason that casters always do ridiculous damage from range is simple, and it's a concept you don't seem to understand, so I'll break it down for you:
Melee classes (rogues, warriors, ret-palas, enh-shams, f-druids and DK's) should be in CLOSE RANGE combat. Their struggle is to stay in melee range of casters in order to do DPS. Melee classes keep doing damage while moving and are able to prevent incoming damage by skilfully running through you..
Caster classes (Mages, boomkins, locks, spriests, ele shams) should be at LONG RANGE. Their struggle is to keep melee off them. If a melee is in range, they cannot DPS because of the extreme risk of interrupts and immense damage they take.
3. Rogues complaining about mages' survivability are absurd. Have you noticed that mages have ZERO immunities that prevent 100% of incoming damage or crowd control but allow them to continue doing damage? a-la AMS or DS. Hell, even deterrence and dispersion still allows for some tactical advantage because they can continue to move and trap.
4. Do a few arenas and for each match you face that includes mages and rogues, note down the effective healing done at the end, see how much rogues have and compare it to mages ;)
5. If you want "OP", how about this:
Iceblock has now become: Ice Bubble. Prevents 100% of incoming physical damage for 6 seconds and the mage can continue to cast. 1 minute cooldown
Ring of Frost has now become: Ring of frozen obscurity. In addition to its freezing edge capability, targets inside the ring may not be attacked by, nor may they attack targets outside of the ring.
Permafrost: the healing portion of this talent now also affects the caster. Each time you cast frostbolt, you heal yourself for 5% of the damage done.
Cold snap: Cold snap now also affects invisibility.
^ Carbon copies of "certain" abilities I'm sure you can relate to. How would it be then, do you think?
PS: "s problem would require vast alterations to the key mechanics of mages as ive already said, something which isnt going to happen any time soon." Go read the MoP changes troll.
well i was just bringing my thoughts to the discussion but you obv think otherwise. i am fully aware of the concept of melee and range and how they work. but other caster classes have far less cc to get away from melees. i have no problem sticking to a lock for example, or a hunter due to how the mechanics of their class work, if played right they can still be very challenging but overall it is far easier to get into melee with them
a mage on the other hand is a different story. now im not saying mages should be nerfed to the floor so be unable to get away from melee but when u are even unable to get into melee after shadowstep or pounce or charge or deathgrip is used it makes attacking a mage v difficult. you talk about the 'struggle' of casters and melee, but with mages that 'struggle' is hardly there. it is far easier to keep a melee off you as a mage than other classes.
the reason mages dont do as much healing is because of ice barrier which has X amount of absoption + mage ward etc. then ice barrier is recast at 50% health again...this will im guess equal close to the amount i heal with recuperate, i could be wrong but simply put mages have a bubble and i dont. that is just a comparison between rogue and mages, other classes will ofc be different.
as to your last point 'go read mop changes troll' i am ofc not bringing that factor into the discussion. yes things will change then but they will for every class and that is a good 6 months away yet. mop will be a new start, a new chapter to wow which will have its own set of overpowered and underpowered classes, ridiculous abilites etc which we shall meet thoughs in time.
btw i missed timewarp and bloodlust/heroism of the list of similar abilities
No good mage should take that talent EVER.
Tbh this post is full of people that can't beat a mage in duel and claim they're op afterwards.
Edited by Каббал on 04/05/12 12:05 (BST)
5. If you want "OP", how about this:
And if I want mages hotfixed before MOP, how about this:
Blink no longer removes stuns.
Improved cone of cold talent removed from the game.
Mage can no longer reset the cooldown of Ice Block in arenas.
Ice lance damage reduced by 30%.
Will they be as bad as warriors after this changes? NOT EVEN CLOSE. They will still be one of the best classes in the game.
"Blink no longer removes stuns"
- Sure, so we're killed the moment any melee gets to us
"Improved cone of cold talent removed from the game"
- Wouldn't be a massive loss... but if you're moaning about this talent, you have issues, heard of DR?
"Mage can no longer reset the cooldown of Ice Block in arenas"
- I would make that trade if rogues lost prep.
"Ice lance damage reduced by 30%"
- You mean the ability we use most to counter skillee who can just run through you or interrupt you while also beating the crap out of you because hey they got stuns and gap closers and we won't be able to use blink for anything useful ;)
Those who believe it, are simply Idiots(Yea. I use to say it once, too)
50k+ shatters on 4k resil without on use trinket... Oh yes, that's not OverPowered.
[quote="25687673070"]Those who believe it, are simply Idiots(Yea. I use to say it once, too)
When people complain i think it is because they're forgetting to ACTUALLY wear items with Resilience rating.
I just got shattered for 25k Frostbolt and 27k ice lance
I use 5.2k resilience
85 Human Mage
You can hide Hotkeys. I'm not exactly sure he is... but you can. Which would give the impression they're clickers.
Either way his point is still valid, more so then 'LOLJKBRO'.
85 Human Paladin
Would love to make a pole and see what percentage of the comunity thinks Mages r OP and what percentage does not, I would trade my bubble the very second the OP scale goes under 99%, hell most of u Mages know ur OP as well.
And the DK that Rolled a Mage is prob the saddest, most FoTM thing iv seen someone do, and now that he is playing one he complains that ppl are able to kill him?... I cant even express what a sad story that is.