Topic
The Great Guild Ban Debacle
10 Gnome Priest
30
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Edited by Underpantz on 12/02/12 17:24 (UTC)
- There is now a TLDR option (summary) on page two for those who don't wish to read the first two pages of this post, please post your opinions and feedback, its the only way Blizzard can take note and take action.. and its greatly appreciated. Thanks :D
Hey Guys Well, first off apologies for hiding behind an alt... I want to contribute to the community but hope you will respect I would also like to retain my anonimity :D Ok so i better get this first ever post rolling... I feel I run a brilliant guild on the WOW EU Servers, we're not huge (less than 100 members) and we're not doing Cata or WOTLK raids yet but everyone is really friendly funny and genuine which makes for a great environment to start with :) Anyhow, even though we're trunddling along just fine hoping to pick up and recruit more members shortly after we've progressed in our skills a bit more, we have had a few problems with the odd member along the way. And when I say odd I also mean we've had some odd ones, some of which have caused disruption, arguements and awekward situations within an otherwise fantastic guild. Eventually these members have been kicked out or have left of their own accord after I have tried to resolve the issues, but some more recent ones have left me with a new conundrum! Some of these more recent members have had several alts within the guild, I've always made an effort to make sure that I remove them all to avoid future issues or disruption within the guild... But my problem is this; how do I truly make sure that someone who has genuinly caused disruption within my guild cannot join again to create further issues? I brought this up with Blizz who suggested I post here to get all your feedback and input into a possible solution to this current problem! At the moment I can kick a player who is causing unwanted disruption or request that they leave of their own accord, but the problem is, as it stands, there is nothing preventing them from creating a new alt and pretending to be someone completely different to try and re-gain entry to the guild! Unfortunately this has left me somewhat suspicious of new members (something I really hate) so here is my proposed solution I would like you to bounce ideas off of... To have, as a Guild Master, the ability to list a player and ban them from the guild. Though this function would go further and effectively black-list that players whole account (and multiple accounts within their accounts) to make sure that they cannot re-gain access to the guild to cause further disruption. This proposed blacklisting would also last through deletion, so even if the player deleted the player name you listed originally to ban their account it would still remain banned. Im sure Blizz most certainly have the technology to implement such a feature almost immediately but think the problem may be with privacy... In other words, you may be able to reveal someones identity if they request to join your guild and their request is automatically refused because they have been banned previously... can anyone think of a way around that? ...Personally I don't think that should be a privacy issue. If they have caused disruption within the guild resulting in them receiving an account ban and then they have tried to use deception to re-gain entry to the guild then they're just stupid... if it ends up revealing their identity then so be it. Then again if you have banned several users in the past then I guess this privacy issue doesn't exist, because although you know its someone who has been previously banned from the guild you cannot specifically identify them anyway. Please can you share your thoughts and ideas on this situation and my possible solution. I genuinely feel this could make a huge difference to the community and piece of mind (less paranoia) of many Guild Masters! Thanks :D |
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This makes good sense actually-have an option to ban an accounts real ID when kicking a member from the guild, with it being purely serverside (so you never see the persons ID, the game just rolls a check to see if the ID is on a list of banned ones for the guild everytime an invite is sent)
+1 approval. |
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I think this would a valuable tool as a GM, I have also had a couple of occasions where previously kicked Guild members have re applied to the Guild with new characters and faked names only to be removed again.
Even having an application process doesn't fully weed them all out, it goes some way to help but this tool would solve all the second guessing! |
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I am quite surprised that this is actually a problem. But nevertheless, it would be quite nice to have a way of ignoring a player and not just a char. If the ignore button actually made you do that, problem solved. Not just for GMs, but for all of us
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You would be amazed the extent some people will go too. We once failed a raider on trial & he actually name changed and re-applied as PVP with a complete new identity, he failed his trial on the PVP side too funnily enough. After that he pretended to be an alt of a current member to get back in guild on a low level character, before being discovered a 3rd time. The 4th time he name changed a max level alt to re-apply & I'm ashamed to say got in again before being discovered.... We had another guy who failed trial in wrath when we used to be called <C O R E> then after we changed our guild name to Aegis he created a new <C O R E> guild & used it try to blackmail us into letting him in guild. We didn't let him in and he still tells people he used to be our old GM /sigh. You should never underestimate the extent 12 yr olds will go to, to be annoying, but thats all it is annoyingness, when these people sneak in just laugh at them for being so pathetic. I now check applicants better, and people have to whisper from mains first to get invite on alts but even now I know there are holes trolls can sneak in by, but I also know when they do that its there problem not mine. |
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i think you have hit the nail on the head with this you could Ignore Players Account on gold spammers and never hear from them again great idea 11/10 |
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There was a discussion about it while ago on the forums, well, about putting an account on ignore, not just one toon. It's a great idea and as far as i remember from Blue's answer, they were gathering feedback on it and slowly starting to introduce it. That's why we now have cross-realm ignore.
Augustie, that SO sounds like a situation our guild was in. Guy changed 5times over half a year, to be kicked time after time. In the end, ticket to a GM is your solution. Trust me, GMs take those cases seriously and that do take actions when they see harrasment. All in all, Blizzard does have an amazing customer support and best solution for you is to trust them on it and don't let the trolls provoke you into a situation, where you will be to blame as well. OP - it's truly a good idea and i don't think there would be a privacy issue if you let GMs handle it, like extend your /ignore to the account without you getting to know the person's data. Maybe that would help to keep those people away. |
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Good thread, awesome suggestions guys. Our guild has had several occassions as well with really annoying people that got kicked then applied on a different char and got back in just to get kicked after a while cause we found out by accident.
Really hope blizz will read this and listen for once and try to implement the ID guild banning. Kudos to the OP |
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I always think of the kids from southpark (well, cartman anyway) whenever i see someone acting up like this. This has got to be one of the most sensible suggestion I've seen on the boards for some time. Would also help with routing through the guild roster to try and oust any alts they may have too. |
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I, for one, am for this idea. I am sick of not trusting new people that join the guild in case they are alts of people who got kicked or left at some point in the past.
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I agree.
I haven't met anyone that bad yet while managing my guild, but have encountered people with mental issues earlier in the game on other servers. let's get /ignore account not only for gm's but for players in general - would help a lot with harassment issues |
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The account ban/ignore suggestion was made before on the old forums, by myself and others...
More than once in fact, since the threads got flooded in the Suggestions forum by a load of crap and spam. So far I haven't seen Blizzard comment on it yet, hopefully that'll change soon. Only thing I'd like to comment on myself is the question of privacy, which was also brought up on the old forums. People will wonder if this doesn't break the privacy of the banned (or ignored) player. There might be potential for that, but the player can avoid this himself. For instance if the player asks to join a guild he's banned from and he's automatically refused entry, well then he brought that on himself by trying to rejoin. And let's not forget that (in any reasonable) guild you'll have to be a serious jerk to get banned in the first place. Most of the time this will be your own fault anyway. This really can't come soon enough IMO. In fact I'd like to see more features in WoW to help manage interactions in this way... Like having just your main character listed in the guild roster with an added drop-down menu for alts. Being able to kick a player WITH all of his alts from the guild, and so on... |
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10 Gnome Priest
30
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Edited by Underpantz on 23/10/11 11:31 (UTC)
Wow guys,
I didnt check back for a while and the feedback you've given is awesome! Reserve... I dont know what TLDR means? But if its to do with hiding behind a lvl 10 Gnome alt then all i can do is apologise again :) I love the idea that some of you have brought forward about harrasment on a personal player level too. You just don't know who anyone is and I don't care to know either, but I would see it as greatly beneficial to the gameplay to be able to block a players account if they do harras you! @Carnanum your suggestion:
I think is a genius addition to how wow works, it would even work when logging in as an alt in the guild... you log in as ur alt but all ur other alts and mains could be viewed in a drop down menu! I certainly think from this thread so far theres great scope for some fantastic additions to the Guild machanics and I hope blizz looks into it some more... At the end of the day, the worst (and one of the few) downside(s) to WOW, for me, is having to deal with people you dont want to. Its a hastle, can become tiresome and also has the potential to ruin or upset gameplay. Anything that simplifies things in WOW and eleviates stress on players is a massive + to the game imo. I welcome many more suggestions in this post along the lines of what has been discussed so far, maybe blizzard will check this thread out, you never know.. ty again for all your input :D |
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hmmm.. its not just the 12 yr old players m8.. Even had this problem with plyers in the middle of the 30´s. If a player wanna be a dork, he will be a dork! |
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I have asked for this many many times from Blizz as I run a large guild and as such also encounter problematic players who then reapply with alts and cause problems again.
Luckily our guildies are not stupid and know that the officers will deal with them as soon as we discover they are disruptive. Having said that we have also had people who have been kicked and come back on alts and kept their heads down for fear of being removed again. Most however are not smart enough to stay hidden for long and usually slip up and reveal their identity (like one who asked to bring his main along to a raid and then /w'd the raid leader off said banned char resulting in his chars being kicked out again as well as him being removed from the raid). Currently there is no way to properly vet people - i have tried having conversations with all applicants to stop idiots infiltrating but most can pass the interview and don't start showing their true colours intil they get accepted. But then the kick button is only a second away and i can at least amuse myself and other guildies with a witty kick comment as they get booted back out the door. I vote we should be allowed to have an IQ test and a multiple choice questionaire prior to applicants being accepted, however my officers have pointed out that we would prob only have 3 members if we did that :) |
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This will be solved relatively easily but you will need to do some prep work first.
There are some Guild Sites out there that track IP addresses belonging to registered account holders, and its done for this very specific reason. How it works: Tell everyone with the permission to invite members to your guild, that absolutely every new member either trial or social, MUST apply via the website. Once they register a toon the IP address is logged and associated with that account on your site On the application form, request 2 alts on this server via armory link. (it shouldnt matter if they are guilded or not) When you kick someone or they leave, and you dont want them to return, you can use the admin settings to block access to your site for that particular accounts IP address. Meaning they cannot reroll and ninja their way back in via an alt. When a player request to add an alt to your guild, have the inviting officer note its "main" on the officer notes. When the time comes to totally remove someone from the guild you can search these notes for all related toons. If you accidentally kick a toon you were not supposed too, send them an ingame mail and apologise with an offer of instant re-invitation. If a player apologises to you, either on the game or website and you consider it to be genuine, you can lift the IP ban as easily as you placed it. Effectiveness: This is mainly down to how strict your officers will be, and how through they are in there duties. There may be instances when they are to busy or forget entirely to add the main name to the officers notes. If a player really wants to troll you, they could make the application away from home, but this type of player is rare, and easily removed after the fact. Result: You have successfully perma-banned this user from your guild and website, Members will take your no trolling policy very seriously and behave in kind. Your guild will respect you for making their game time more enjoyable and productive. Downside: You may have to relocate your guild host // site, to one that uses this feature, or request the feature from the service provider, either way it could take some time to set everything the way you like it. Hope it helped |
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The term "12 year old" doesn't necessarily go to physical age, it's more of a mental age reference ;) As to the topic: I wholeheartedly agree! I run an open perk guild with an open guild bank. I take in everyone that can use the perks whilst leveling and I've set up a 6-tab guild bank full of goodies for everyone to use. As I level a lot of alts I run into a lot of cloth, ore, herbs, etc that I supply to the rest of the guild if they can use it. I've also given everyone the right to invite people and set up NuttyRecruiter with an autoinvite system. That way I can be sure our hospitality reaches as many people as possible. Lately it's been abused.... a *lot*.... up to the point where someone was creating alts to get past the 5-stack withdrawal limit and pretty much emptied out the bank. As soon as I discovered this he was, of course, removed from the guild including all of his alts. 2 days later he whispers me the keyword again and gets autoinvited. There's a lot that can be done to improve on this. - First off: Give me an option to permanently ban someone. In a way that they can never be reinvited, by anyone. - Extend that option to not only a player name but a Battle.net account (should be possible; if I can "friend" a battle.net account, why not ban an entire account?) - I like the idea of listing people and their alts together in the guild roster. Wouldn't just make banning easier, it would make chatting a lot easier as well. "Who the hell are you, I don't know you!" "I'm your guildmaster you doofus" ;) - While we're at it: Give an option to promote/demote the entire alt list. That way when you promote someone to officer, you don't have to manually go through the roster to promote all the alts as well. Maybe even link a rank to the Battle.net account? (or would that take away too much flexibility?) Any more ideas to add to this? |
