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Its nice to see how an observational post about the current state of Horde RP has turned into such a S-Storm followed by some licking then more Storms and more licking and the licking being "Gold" and then more pointless Storm.

Classy

Atleast a few people actualy had something constructive to add.

It would be nice if you went and re-read Nimblepod's post..the one I described as "gold". I wouldnt call it "licking" or anything of the sort. I tend to see Nimble's posts as both funny and insightful, and generally more constructive than half the posts in the rest of the thread.
His point was well made I would say.

Simply put, its easy to stamp and shout about how bad you perceive the RP situation to be, and just as easy to dismiss a whole host of people linking all sorts of threads and RP channels and so on (which many of us found strange because the initiatives we've been bringing up, in response to the OP and others, are intented to make it EASIER to find RP), but in the end if you want RP you do somewhat need to go looking and actually try to start some. You cant just assume it'll fall into your lap.

And as I have also suggested (though that point was attacked...), you have to take into account the situation of the players you approach. Are they AFK? Are they busy? Are they in the middle of an IC situation that will make them inwilling to IC react well to randomly being poked?

In the end, a lot of players are happy to engage with random RP (like drunk goblins, as an example), and a lot arent. Massive generalisations dont help, and attacking the server as being "bad" or "disappointing" when theres so much being done to try to make things better, doesnt help either.

Quite to the contrary Illusiel, I personally do regret engaging in this discussion with you as you’ve shown yourself to be ill-equipped on the etiquettes of debating and the whole ordeal has proved itself to be long-winded; I don't really need to do the back-and-forth thing. Your posts have been riddled with ad hominem attacks to insult/provoke me, particularly with your last post; it suggests to me that you drew offence from my own post and if so, my apologies.

Though I’m typically indifferent to mediocre/childish jibes, it's somewhat under-handed that you scoop as low as to cite unidentified sources posting remarks that bear no relevance to the discussion at hand; perhaps it was folly of me to believe that we were all mature enough to put aside the differences in our opinions save for some who wish to undermine my integrity.

I could choose to resort to the same level of indecency but I’d like to think I’m above sheer barbarism. An interesting thing to note would be that given how you’ve been so fanatical in rotating this whole discussion around me --- it’s a tad ironic you’d mention “stalkers and harassers”, wouldn’t you say?

Also, to ask whether or not you have permission to post said chat-log is futile as I can re-call that my so called “permission” was disregarded in an earlier post of yours. “I have no problems making the full conversation public” – This isn’t a scandal as you seem to be making it out to be, it’s an informal conversation which lasted 2 minutes or so. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say this sounded like a threat.

I see that people weren't wrong about you, Vell.

Please do not approach me again in the future. If even half of what I've heard is true, I'd rather this be the last we see from each other, in-game or out of it. I'll leave it at that. No snide remarks, nor any veiled insults.

Have a decent continued existence.

I find your sudden ploy in portraying me as some sort of "villain" or that I have wronged you in anyway, comical - frankly your guise is transparent as your earlier post created the impression that you took offence to my comments.
I'd like to remind you not to engage in debates of this nature in the future, if you're not going to be prepared to handle or indeed respond accordingly to the valid criticism(s).

21/09/2011 19:48Posted by Illusiel

I see that people weren't wrong about you, Vell.

While we're on the subject, I'd like to invite those "people" (assuming they're not non-existant) into the thread.

Insulting and slurring someone behind the scenes is one thing, actively feeding someone because you lack the audacity to speak up yourself can be interpreted as being cowardly and deceitful. Like it has once been said: “a person who dares not approach strangers - in a game - have much more severe social issues in real life.”

Oh stop it. Both of you

Try to keep the discussion civil and on topic, please? All this sniping at each other is pointless

21/09/2011 21:17Posted by Desolane

Try to keep the discussion civil and on topic, please? All this sniping at each other is pointless

In case you hadn't discerned, many of the so-called reputable Rpers were the first to purge this thread of civil discussion and thus rendering courteous debate unwelcome. I think you’d find that one of the very first foul-mouthed comments - though removed - was made by a player from Nimplepod’s guild. I realise that he apologised for the said player’s misconduct but what’s a late apology when the damage has been done? In light of the fact that, Camille’s comment was undoubtedly one of the principal impressions that many posters pertained to me the OP.

I’d also like to touch upon one of the fact that it’s the familiar RP faces that’re spearheading the defamation of this thread, and in particular you and Ajaxxor. (See quotes below)

19/09/2011 22:33Posted by Ajaxxor

Lets get one thing straight. This thread shows some people voicing sincere opinions, but most of the accusers are jilted, bitter people firing off slander at legitimate supporters of RP, through the thin veil of mature debate. You don't fool me.

17/09/2011 20:22Posted by Desolane

I'm finding this bashing of Moonglade RP to be a tad odd...

17/09/2011 20:22Posted by Desolane

Perhaps if the OP were to explain why such a large cross guild initiative is still not good enough for him

Then again, he has proven multiple times now that he doesn't really care what the server has to offer, as he has already decided it has all gone so horribly wrong.

Some people will simply cling to the past in nostalgic denial and rant on about how things are never as good as they used to be. People do it in pvp, pve and certainly in RP aswell.

[..Need I continue?]

I’m not too sure about you but these comments, given the context of my opening post, don’t correlate with my idea of a “civil discussion”, as you have put it. Moreover, I don’t understand why you’re shunning me and indeed countless other people – of which Euric and Marosha are included - for stating our opinions on a topic we passionately care about.

I’m inclined to think that you misguidedly believe that staging an RP event is going to mystically mend the problems with RP on Moonglade, which not only reflects poorly on you, given the short-sightedness of such an approach, but also makes me wonder whether continuing this conversation with you is going to yield in anything productive.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that the Union Event was a success as you've eagerly mentioned earlier, but I believe it’s significant to appreciate that this is only a step in the right direction. Thus I find your original question of “why such a large cross guild initiative is still not good enough for him” a touch out of place.

In regards to Ajaxxor’s insinuation that this thread was created for the soul purpose of flame-baiting, as it were, I can only display my disappointment in someone who is meant to be a pinnacle of hope for the Horde and indirectly somebody who newbie RP’ers may perhaps choose to look up to. I can’t fathom how you fared to dismiss my points completely because apparently they didn’t agree with you.

@Euric. Spare me your lamentations about Union members or affiliates.....

In particular, I’m disgusted at how you (Ajaxxor) addressed Euric’s valid post thereby silencing him. It’s one thing to protect the interest of the Union project, but that doesn’t give you or your "affiliates" the right to smack-down anyone who expresses an indifferent opinion.

How are either of the things Id said, that you kindly quoted, a defamation of the thread?
The first is a statement that I find something odd (stating an opinon), the second is a question hoping for a response. Neither of which is an attack or defamation or somesuch.

My post above was simply an attempt to get things away from personal attacks on each other, which I didnt believe was helping at all. Im all for reasonable discussion but "you said...no, you said...no, you said" doesnt seem like that to me.

I never had any intention of seeming to attack you, or Euric or anyone else, and if it came across like that I apologise. However it did seem like a lot of perfectly reasonable points were being made and being somewhat unfairly ignored by the ones who have such a poor opinion of the server.

Terms like "misguidedly believe" and so on dont seem to me to be helpful either. Im sure by now you know what the Union Accord is and represents, so you know its not just one event, but something intended to change the flavour of RP and help create the very conditions that would make casual, incidental, RP easier...as we have tried to explain several times now. Im sorry you feel we are misguided in thinking that this "step in the right direction" is still worth doing.


In the end im saddened that you seem to have taken a heartfelt request for more polite discussion as some kind of attack and then responded in kind. Can't we go back to just discussing the issue and stop prodding at each other?

In the end im saddened that you seem to have taken a heartfelt request for more polite discussion as some kind of attack and then responded in kind. Can't we go back to just discussing the issue and stop prodding at each other?

You can continue being "saddened" all you like, I'm not going to apologise for sharing what I think about you based on the information you have posted so far. If a thread on an on-line forum makes you sad, then by all means please stop posting for your own mental health's sake. "Heartfelt", that genuinely made me laugh. I hope you're not seriously suggesting that your - markedly late - plea asking people to not argue in such a immature way was heartfelt in anyway, are you?
I'm not sure you fully fathomed my previous post, allow me to clarify if I may, you're asking people to stop the sugar-coated insults and instead to engage in a civil discussion but when you haven't done so yourself from the get go, I think you'd fall into the pitfall of sounding like a hypocrite, though I don't beg to differ.

Finally, you mention not wanting to get into a petty argument, but I hope you do realise you're about 2 pages too late.


Bottom-line: Stop derailing this thread, or let it die.

Certainly. If thats your response to someone trying to be polite, I'll waste no more time or effort on trying to converse with you at all. I hope you find what you are looking for. And a little common courtesy along the way.

You know, I would love to try and get some of the Horde initiatives going on the Alliance side also, but there are a couple of problems holding me back...
1) I'm completely burned out all the time even before I start playing games...
2) If I can get enough energy to play the game, then chances are I'm going to be helping my real life friends with their raiding guild

This random RP (which the Dwarf Warrior RP that I mentioned on Page 2 was) is scarce nowadays. It could be because Moonglade was one of the worst hit realms when tons of players left the game (wasn't it something like 10 million subscribers that Blizzard lost when Cata came out?) but, for those of us who can sow the seeds (I promise you if I could, I would work with other players on the Alliance to try and get it going again), shouldn't we work together. I must say though, that I have not found the Alliance hostile towards me when roleplaying (I've never tried roleplaying on Nomfur with a Horde, I can see that ending badly). However I cannot relate to the Horde as I have not Roleplayed on the Horde side. Only Alliance.

I can't comment about the state of Moonglade RP, let alone the state of Hordeside RP, but I just wanted to say that the defensiveness of some posters here does not paint a good picture of it.

I admit that comments like the OP do not help when there is such a huge and impressive effort going on, but I think that the tone of some posters betrayed more about what they think of the situation than the actual content of their posts.

The truth is, actions always speak louder than words. The Horde community has already a lot to show for their efforts, and a single thread with a couple people whining about "the state of RP" would have gone unnoticed. Because such threads will always exist, as role-playing is something completely subjective, and you will never make everyone happy.

20/09/2011 15:21Posted by Pickford

You're right there. I'd advise people to think twice before choosing Argent Dawn as an alternative, the grass certainly isn't greener in many respects. Personally the only reason I felt forced to leave was because everyone I'd ever known had uprooted and gone off, which left me with little choice but to regretfully depart.

Well another thing I'd like to add, most people I knew on Moonglade, my good friends or known people left towards Argent Dawn, then ANOTHER group of my friends left, because those first friends left there. They I want to say "Blindly" follow their friends, and that destroys a Servers RP usualy, not only from Moonglade but other realms people transfered to Argent Dawn.

What does that equal? A server overcrowded with all kinds of elitists, idiots, but good people who dont feel inplace around these types.

@Desolane. The idea of people being 'busy' in an IC sense is one I can understand but when said people are standing about alone in an inn with their MRP flags set to looking for contact I think it's fair to assume people will think they're looking for contact. Also in IRL situations, like a bar for instance people don't just ignore people when they're talking with someone else and approached by someone new - in IRL it would be considered rude to do so. In game it wouldn't take a matter of moments to whisper the newcomer and tell them they're unavailable or use the RP Network for that, I think that's more polite than treating the newcomer as though they're invisible.

Plus I think part of the point of this thread was to highlight how insular RP can be and how difficult it can be to get involved with it - if everyone you try to RP with is 'IC busy', wouldn't you get the impression it was difficult to get involved? I'm not saying everyone should drop what they're doing and include people all the time but how else will people get involved without other people giving them a chance? How do we as individuals get to know other people without talking?

I guess in short you're expecting people to know the difference when you're looking for contact or in a private roleplay but in defence of that people aren't mind-readers and the closed attitude of 'I'm busy for you, but not for someone else' is why RP comes across stuffy and cliquey to an outsider.

@Dento. I think Ajaxxor and others involved with the Union would view this kind of thread and discussion as a personal, broad, and uninformed attack on their efforts to restore RP, and can you blame them seeing people complaining about the lack of exactly what they're trying to do? That wasn't what I had intended to do earlier and I apologised to him for it, and likewise he apologised to me for what he said. In short I'd like to think we both understood where the other was coming from.

Fundamentally the Union Accord project and Roleplay Network among other things are making waves to improve the quality and organisation of RP on the server, but as this forum has probably highlighted there are still a lot of people that are isolated or feel unable to get involved for one or another reason so it's probably got a long way left to go. In any case from what I understand this was the first one and it's not a problem that's going to be fixed overnight for either side of the discussion - those with, or those without.

I suppose patience and continued effort is the best thing for everyone to do because really all both sides of the argument want is more RP and if we're going to achieve that it'd be a better idea to pull together to get it rather than complain about it.


To that end, would it be an idea to suggest a day, location and time for 'casual RP'? Make a weekly server-based thing, same location every time where the people that attend go with the specific intention of socialising with everyone and anyone? IC it can be explained as a celebration, downtime/shore leave from war or information sharing within the Horde and OOC it can be used to improve general, casual, spontaneous RP between guilded and unguilded alike. If anyone's suggested that before/is already happening then do let me know.

If you want more RP, the best you can do is to simply add to it. If no one around you is roleplaying, then start it yourself. Roleplay at all time. I think the problem is that if you regard RP as something meta-game you do only when you've finished with your dailies, and your dailies are done running around like a chicken on fire, then you'll find that when YOU are ready to RP, everybody else is running around like chickens on fire doing their dailies. If you – we – stop doing that, then we'll suddenly see that the world is teeming with roleplayers. (And all the non-roleplayers will feel like they're out of place, which is an added bonus.)

"Roleplaying alone" – emoting a bit, walking and not running when in towns, saying things in /say… that creates a roleplaying atmosphere around you, and will attract other roleplayers. And if you do that while playing the game – at all times, and not only when you suddenly get this urge for epic hour-long RP – you'll end up having more RP encounters than you can stomach.

And if you don't have time to RP just then – it takes only a few seconds to explain that to the one who tapped your shoulder. But the seed is sown. And the next chance will be there. If we're patient and keep at it.

^ This. *gives the two coppers to Rod instead*

Thank you Euric, you saved me a lot of letters. Also good points made by many of my peers here, from both factions.

@Dento - I wont waste my time being nice or pretentious with people i consider destructive forces for RP. Thus, i don't care what you think of me; speak to role-players who have encountered me on this realm, new and old and judge me by those accounts if you must.

I'm well within my rights to defend myself and the members who strive on this realm, if your going to attack us then you should be able to support your argument with facts. So far you seem to just state things to cause indignation then trump it up by leap-frogging off the contexts of other peoples replies. If you really had a positive agenda you'd be trying to reign in the tone of this thread; i don't really see any evidence of that, just someone prolonging 5 minutes of fame by any means necessary.

Yes i defame this thread, its bad press on the threshold of what i hope to be an inclusive new chapter for our RP. If you and the other naysayers had taken advantage of the RP that is on offer in Moonglade over the past tenure, or joined one of our excellent guilds; perhaps your outlook would be more optimistic. We would be silly to say RP is never fleeting or elusive on a low pop realm, but its also what you make it. If being a guild master has taught me anything it is that you can never make everyone happy.

I don't know anything about being a 'pinnacle of hope' for anyone, i certainly have not touted myself thus. I would blush about that comment if it wasn't being used to attack my humble efforts. I attribute the majority of successes i have witnessed on Moonglade to the community at large, and their prevailing desire to see the realm endure. The people of Moonglade have always, and will continue to be its guardians, you will not succeed in dividing us.

With or without your approval we soldier on.

I see you've shown your true colours; still, I ought to at least commend you on finally mustering up the courage to post your real intentions without attempting to pertain to a friendly tone.

@Dento - I wont waste my time being nice or pretentious with people i consider destructive forces for RP. Thus, i don't care what you think of me; speak to role-players who have encountered me on this realm, new and old and judge me by those accounts if you must.

If your definition of ‘destructive’ is pointing out obvious flaws which are prohibiting roleplay, then that really speaks for itself. You realise that the very points raised in this thread are well-founded so you swiftly move to chip away at their reliability; the fact that you’ve out rightly stated that you will feign ignorance to veil the problems away, again just goes to further my point.

I'm well within my rights to defend myself and the members who strive on this realm, if your going to attack us then you should be able to support your argument with facts. So far you seem to just state things to cause indignation then trump it up by leap-frogging off the contexts of other peoples replies. If you really had a positive agenda you'd be trying to reign in the tone of this thread; i don't really see any evidence of that, just someone prolonging 5 minutes of fame by any means necessary.

You’re not defending anyone or yourself when you go as far as to openly show aggression to anyone who opposes your reasoning. Asking me to provide facts would indicate in some gist that you wish me to name and shame people that I’ve had the pleasure of exchanging pleasantries within an endeavour for you to silence me completely. You are a conniving one, Ajaxxor.

You allude to me being something of an antagonist, funnily enough. At the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that these ‘peers’ of yours are just that, by itself you will support them regardless of the points made in yet another example of blatant double-standards. My vision looks towards the imminent fate of Moonglade as opposed to the present day; like a doctor would examine his/her patient for symptoms to diagnose them before their condition(s) take a turn for the worse, so do I. In short, I seek to help nurse Moonglade back on its feet but hostile forces at work are restrictive. You see Ajaxx, unlike you my agenda does not just pertain to providing roleplay for me and my peers whilst ignoring the rest of the server, I mean to make Moonglade a server for everyone, or at least push forward the initiative.

24/09/2011 15:07Posted by Ajaxxor

Yes i defame this thread, its bad press on the threshold of what i hope to be an inclusive new chapter for our RP. If you and the other naysayers had taken advantage of the RP that is on offer in Moonglade over the past tenure, or joined one of our excellent guilds; perhaps your outlook would be more optimistic. We would be silly to say RP is never fleeting or elusive on a low pop realm, but its also what you make it. If being a guild master has taught me anything it is that you can never make everyone happy.

When RP is on the decline, why should I take advantage of the second rate RP? If anything, it will only desecrate the memories I cherish. You will always get a select minority of people who are unhappy with the way things are being done, that’s a given. But when said minority becomes the majority then that places emphasis on a serious blunder that should be a cause for concern.

25/09/2011 13:52Posted by Dento

My vision looks towards the imminent fate of Moonglade as opposed to the present day; like a doctor would examine his/her patient for symptoms to diagnose them before their condition(s) take a turn for the worse, so do I. In short, I seek to help nurse Moonglade back on its feet but hostile forces at work are restrictive. You see Ajaxx, unlike you my agenda does not just pertain to providing roleplay for me and my peers whilst ignoring the rest of the server, I mean to make Moonglade a server for everyone, or at least push forward the initiative.

Well, running the risk of sounding rude, while I agree that you have a point on RP not being immediately noticable on Moonglade, and that that's a sad fact…

1) …all we have seen from you is an anonymous complaining. Now, that's perfectly understandable when one wants to bring up a sensitive point. It's rather more suspicious when it keeps going on.
2) …if your wish is to help RP on Moonglade, you're doing the exact opposite by complaining. Unlike others, I don't think complaining is belittling people's efforts (I just think it's pointing out that despite the efforts, there's still room for more), but really, what you're doing is not helping the least, so claiming that you do all you can to help, rings very very hollowly.
3) …directly stating that Ajaxxor's agenda is to ignore the server, is blatantly stupid by two reasons: a) no one except Ajaxxor can ever claim what Ajaxxor's real agenda is, as we're not in his heads. We can only observe his actions and draw conclusions. b) Ajaxxor's actions have so far been to be leader of an RP guild, open up a roleplaying channel for anyone to participate in, and to start up a project to help roleplaying guilds work together to inspire more RP events, open for all. At least two of these three actions have been very open for everyone to participate in. To regard that as "ignoring the server" is, thus, stupid. Quad Erat Demonstrandum.
4) …generally, insinuating that other players are selfish, never helps. It often, however, does the opposite.

Shortly put, you just proved to everyone attentive enough that whatever your agenda is, what you are actually DOING (in this thread, I don't know what you're doing in the game as you're still anonymous) is just being destructive. My conclusion so far is thus that you are little more than a troll who simply wants to stir up things. Alas, there are many like that.

Hence from hereon I will stop replying to this thread, lest it be kept at the top, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. If you, Dento, really want to help out RP on Moonglade, I am the first to be thankful but I advise you to log on and roleplay instead of continue complaining in this forum thread. You've made your point, no one is helped by you throwing sarcasms at those who actually try to do something about the problem.

Am I alone in thinking it odd how an anonymous troll has, in just one post, just declared himself the savior of our realm while in the very same post dismissing all such ongoing initiatives to restore and uphold roleplaying as being privatized and monopolized between "peers" ?

I'm going to call you out on this, Dento. By all means, tell us more of your iniative and your agenda. If you're not going to reveal who you actually are, please tell us why you choose to conceal yourself, if indeed your intentions are as altruistic as you seem to portray them to be.

Nothing would make me happier than to see even more people enjoying the roleplaying atmosphere of this realm, but for all your cynicism and criticism, i've yet to see any suggestions as how to improve the state of the realm.

And that is why you are - indeed - coming off in an antagonistic light. You dare not show who you are, and all you've done so far is trying ti belittle the efforts of everyone else on the server.

Feel free to prove me wrong. I would be happy to be proven wrong, and to see that you actually have an agenda beyond just trolling and venting your personal frustration.