World of Warcraft®

30/09/2011 11:33Posted by Cleoma

No if any 1st gen even still exist they are still members of the scourge

As far as I know, the only 1st generation death knights that joined the Scourge were immediately turned into liches. The rest followed Teron Gorefiend, who killed them and is now dead himself. So there wouldn't even be any left.

Hello there! As the name suggests, this is about necromancers. I've alwas considered making one since, and obvious class choice is Death Knight. I have a few question though before i make one.

Would a necromancer even be okay or are they all with the Scourge?
What traits could i implement to the character to avoid having the necromancy as main trait?
What races except Forsaken might consider necromancy?
Finnaly, how does a necromancer turne unbdead? I know they mostly are, but no idea how. Is it the unholy magic slowly killing them? Did the Scourge kill them?

When you make a Necromancer Character, you have to consider that the more they use Unholy Power the more undead they become until they ultimately loose their mind unless they're strong enough - that is how I know and understand it, even today I have a Necromancer, RPed as my rogue (It may seem silly but hey, why not. Better then making a warlock, and pretending your Imp is a summoned skeleton, although your Shadow Bolt would be Necromance-ish)

Our guild has necromancers. The mage/lock/shadow priest chars all work for it really.

There were/are Necromancers in Duskwood who are nothing to do with the Scourge. The undead in Duskwood are not scourge either.

30/09/2011 13:32Posted by Valliecane

A Death Knight have almost everything a necromancer should have (In talk of game mechanic spells), you get a undead minion, Army of the Dead, Undead skin, "undead" voice and from what I know necromancers seems to have a thing for ice / frost spells (Only really based on liches, but still). At which you have both Chains of Ice and so on.

"Although they did not ultimately choose to implement the class, some of the ideas for the necromancer class were incorporated into the death knight instead."
-http://www.wowpedia.org/Hero_class#Other_possible_hero_classes

So I really cannot argue with Death Knights being used to portray Necromancers. I'm just personally against Death Knights being played as anything other than Death Knights because first off they are such a special, unique class, even in appearance so they are almost like their own race. Why would anyone want to roll something so specific and then completely disregard it? Second because it's been done so badly so many times that I just recoil every time I see it.

If you insist on using a Death Knight, I'd suggest playing it as a Death Knight who focuses on the unholy Necromantic arts, making him more a caster than a knight, yet not entirely stripping him of the knight aspect. This would also allow him to walk around the cities if he needs to, so long as you don't practice Necromancy within the city walls. Yes, you are still undead, but the Death Knights of the Ebon Blade have been permitted to be within the cities.

29/09/2011 19:38Posted by Joecakebaker

Kel'thuzad (pre-lich), Heigan the unclean, Gothik the harvester and Noth the plaguebringer werent undead either as far as i know.

"Now, death knight, a brief lesson in plague cauldrons. The gas that the cauldron emits is deadly to the living, but empowers Scourge. As with all scourge creations, it feeds off death and grows stronger the longer it feeds." -Noth the Plaguebearer (those cauldrons empower death knights.You drink "Noth's Special Brew", which is basically the Plague of Undeath, and it does not kill and raise you, it heals and strengthens you. Therefore, you are not living.)

You would have to be a former mage really, last i read all necromancers were originally mages who heard the lichkings telepathic call and journeyed to northrend to learn this forbiden art and gain immortality.

Necromancy is a form of fel magic so you'd need some magic ability.

I'd say more Shadow than Fel. Besides, the first Necromancers were originally Orc Shaman or Orc Warlocks (who were also originally Shaman.)

29/09/2011 22:38Posted by Cleoma

The forsaken may still have some, though there were never alot because a necromancer cant bring an undead creature back with free will, they can only make mindless slaves and the forsaken would never do that to others into the mindless things they once were.

I forgot about this detail. Quite true.

30/09/2011 11:33Posted by Cleoma

1st gen were the corpse of a stormwind knight infused with the sould of an orc warlock, the only race you could use to represent one would be human and if a 1st gen tried to enter SW they'd be killed on sight.

This.

Dk's of the third generation were disposable shock troops, they were not taught necromancy they were shown one simple spell that could bring up a mindless creature, necromancers are rare making up less than 1% of the scourges forces you would not send one out to be bait.

I could give you a gun loaded with ammo and cocked ready to shoot but that would not make you a soldier, in the same way knowing a little necromancy does not make you a necromancer.

Dk's are not arcane spell users and so could not use the magic needed to perform necromancy.

Actually, Death Knights have far more Necromantic spells that that and they do use Arcane magic in the form of Rune magic.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Rune_magic

And perhaps the reason Necromancers make up such a small procentage would be if you're counting all the overwhelming numbers of mindless shocktroops which would make even Death Knights an almost insignificant procentage of the Scourge forces.

I think its safe to conclude that you dont have to be scourge aligned and dont have to be undead to be a necromancer.

01/10/2011 10:10Posted by Koránith

I'd say more Shadow than Fel. Besides, the first Necromancers were originally Orc Shaman or Orc Warlocks (who were also originally Shaman.)

Dreadlords invented necromancy, they are demons and use fel magics ego necromancy is closer to fel magic than arcane magic, given that all necromancy in the universe comes from the spells the legion taught others we know 100% they arent shadow spells.

Necromancy is an arcane type of magic, not a divine type there are several points in lore where this is stressed.

01/10/2011 10:10Posted by Koránith

Actually, Death Knights have far more Necromantic spells that that and they do use Arcane magic in the form of Rune magic.

They are not mages, their powers are instinctive they dont actually take arcane energy and change its form into death magic, they use their powers as a reflex, where a mage in lore can in theory do anything he wants with arcane magic deathknights can only ever do a limited number of damaging attacks.

Where a mage can form arcane energy into fire balls, change people into sheep and travel vast distances in the blink of an eye all a deathknight will ever be able to do is unleash death never being able to learn any spell not gifted to him/her in the creation process.

01/10/2011 10:10Posted by Koránith

And perhaps the reason Necromancers make up such a small procentage would be if you're counting all the overwhelming numbers of mindless shocktroops which would make even Death Knights an almost insignificant procentage of the Scourge forces.

Mages are not that common, it takes alot of training and study to be a successful mage and its not something most races have the luxury to do, and the number of mages willing to abandon their comfy towers travel to northrend so they can learn magic from a voice speaking in their head was even smaller.

01/10/2011 10:48Posted by Joecakebaker

I think its safe to conclude that you dont have to be scourge aligned and dont have to be undead to be a necromancer.

Well, you will become more and more Undead-ish as you use Unholy Magic. It comes at a price obviously.

Would a necromancer even be okay or are they all with the Scourge?

Define 'okay'. Independent necromancers certainly are possible, but dark magic would change and corrupt them such that they became quite an unpleasant person - if they weren't before - and then they might be inclined to seek out the Scourge. Or they might not. Regardless, necromancy is very much illegal just about everywhere and any practicing necromancer who got caught could reasonably expect to be executed. A LOT of people in Azeroth have plenty of motivation to hate and fear necromancers, independent or otherwise. Not only are you playing with fire using such dark magic, you're risking a painful death if anyone - close, trusted friends included - finds out what you're doing.

What traits could i implement to the character to avoid having the necromancy as main trait?

Pretty much anything that might round out any other character. You might want to consider why the character is a necromancer and what traits might have led them to that, to start off, but they should be a character first and a necromancer second, if I make sense there.

What races except Forsaken might consider necromancy?

I think any races that use arcane magic. Most necromancers in the Scourge are human, mainly because most of the Cult of the Damned was drawn from the human population of Lordaeron, but anyone can join the Cult. There are even draenei cultists in Northrend.

Finnaly, how does a necromancer turne unbdead? I know they mostly are, but no idea how. Is it the unholy magic slowly killing them? Did the Scourge kill them?

All arcane magic is corrupting and the effect of necromantic corruption is that the caster gradually takes on the characteristics of the undead, eventually becoming undead themselves. The Scourge is known to kill and raise its cultists and necromancers, but an independent necromancer would still risk being turned by their magic eventually.

As for what class? I made this character well before WotLK brought in death knights and it was a toss-up between mage and warlock. If you plan on using undead minions in RP, death knight is a good choice, but you then have the problem of people bashing you for not RPing them as a death knight.

If you don't plan on using your minions IC - maybe a character you don't intend to get caught using necromancy in public - you may prefer to pick a caster class, since the inability to command ghouls isn't going to matter and you have the advantage of not using the DK model if your character is still among the living.

EDIT: Just noticed the OP is in the TTF *waves*

Thanks for all the great answers! Helped me alot.

*waves at Aodhan*

29/09/2011 22:38Posted by Cleoma

Dreanei would not be necromancers as its a practice done by the eredar.

Sorry, but... there are Draenei necromancers. The Auchenai Draenei practice necromancy. I don't know if much of them survived after the defeat of Maladaar, but still...

The Auchenai are a draenei faction who can be found in Terokkar Forest. They are opposed to other draenei groups, and hostile to both Alliance and Horde. While they are similar to mainstream draenei society in that they are a theocratic society, their religion is very much unlike the [Holy Light]. Little is known about their cult and what they worship, but they seem to be obsessed with a coming apocalypse, and indulge in dark practices like necromancy. Their corruption is most likely caused by the void radiated by D'ore.

Those arnt alliance dreanei though, i was on about alliance races and horde races as the OP was on about not being a member of the scourge.

01/10/2011 21:23Posted by Cleoma

Those arnt alliance dreanei though, i was on about alliance races and horde races as the OP was on about not being a member of the scourge.

It's a fair point, Alliance draenei are very unlikely to take up dark magic in any form. It's not completely impossible, but would be so rare that it's probably best avoided in RP. There are draenei Scourge cultists in the Forge of Souls (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=36516), but I have no idea whether they are former Alliance or something else.

01/10/2011 19:30Posted by Tarya

*waves at Aodhan*

I miss fighting you guys :(

My char (RPing a weird shadow user/Necro in practice, and yes shes getting heavily corrupted)
is a rogue. Had no complaints yet about class choice!

What Datro said.

Dreadlords invented necromancy, they are demons and use fel magics ego necromancy is closer to fel magic than arcane magic, given that all necromancy in the universe comes from the spells the legion taught others we know 100% they arent shadow spells.

Necromancy is an arcane type of magic, not a divine type there are several points in lore where this is stressed.

A. Do not Warlocks use Shadow Magic as well as Fel Magic? Shadow Bolt, Corruption, Bane of Agony, Bane of Doom, Shadowfury, Shadowburn, Shadowflame...

B. Do not Troll Voodoo Priests also dabble in Necromancy? Calling upon the, by definition, Divine magic of the Loa to create zombies?

They are not mages, their powers are instinctive they dont actually take arcane energy and change its form into death magic, they use their powers as a reflex, where a mage in lore can in theory do anything he wants with arcane magic deathknights can only ever do a limited number of damaging attacks.

Where a mage can form arcane energy into fire balls, change people into sheep and travel vast distances in the blink of an eye all a deathknight will ever be able to do is unleash death never being able to learn any spell not gifted to him/her in the creation process.

Well, that would explain why we start with all our spells at level 55- Oh, wait. We actually learn new spells as we level up.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Death Knights use Rune Magic, which is Arcane Magic accessed by more natural means. If they have the rune for something, they can do that something, and they can most likely aquire new runes or possibly use old ones in a new way (based on being able to use Frost runes for at least 4 difference spells or combine them with Unholy runes for at least 2 additional spells.)

01/10/2011 14:02Posted by Cleoma

Mages are not that common, it takes alot of training and study to be a successful mage and its not something most races have the luxury to do, and the number of mages willing to abandon their comfy towers travel to northrend so they can learn magic from a voice speaking in their head was even smaller.

Apparently, enough find it worth it since we've got the entire Cult of the Damned up there in Northrend.


http://www.wowpedia.org/Cult_of_the_Damned

A. Do not Warlocks use Shadow Magic as well as Fel Magic? Shadow Bolt, Corruption, Bane of Agony, Bane of Doom, Shadowfury, Shadowburn, Shadowflame...

B. Do not Troll Voodoo Priests also dabble in Necromancy? Calling upon the, by definition, Divine magic of the Loa to create zombies?

On this note;

Would it be considered unreasonable of me, to suggest that you’re both right? I for one, wouldn’t be the least bit surprised, if it turned out that there are several means of accessing Necromancy.

The fact that the Loa grant certain trolls this ability, as well as the fact that the Legion bestowed it to the Lich King, seems to indicate that it can be Divine Magic, as well as Fel / Shadow Magic.

In short, who’s to say that it has to be one or the other?

indeed the blood elfs hate the scourge but im pretty sure there is a blood elf necromancer in the ghostlands called dar'khan drathir.

The Blood elves might hate the Scourge as a nation. But there are always individuals.

05/10/2011 08:02Posted by Koránith

A. Do not Warlocks use Shadow Magic as well as Fel Magic? Shadow Bolt, Corruption, Bane of Agony, Bane of Doom, Shadowfury, Shadowburn, Shadowflame...

The names may say shadow bolt, shadow fury etc, but warlocks use fel magic which is the demonic version of arcane magic, we do not draw our powers from the divine shadow.

05/10/2011 08:02Posted by Koránith

B. Do not Troll Voodoo Priests also dabble in Necromancy? Calling upon the, by definition, Divine magic of the Loa to create zombies?

Zombies are not always dead people, actual voodoo uses plant extracts and drugs to put people in a state of mind making them hightly open to suggestion.

Also the trolls worship the Loa, they are actual gods so its probable that the necromancy the trolls know was taught to them by their gods, and we dont know that the loa didnt just pull that knowldge from the nether and pass it on to their subjects.

What we do know for sure because its what lore says in black and white is the dreadlords came up with it first and taught it to the legion and the lichking.

05/10/2011 08:02Posted by Koránith

Well, that would explain why we start with all our spells at level 55- Oh, wait. We actually learn new spells as we level up.

Game mechanics =/= Lore.

05/10/2011 08:02Posted by Koránith

Apparently, enough find it worth it since we've got the entire Cult of the Damned up there in Northrend.

Training as a mage takes decades of study, those misguided fools have been up there less than 10, they arnt full blown necromancers they are acolytes learning the art, a person in training to be a mage isnt automatically one once they throw their first icebolt.

And we know they are expendable because several large scale spells require their sacrifice, if they were full necromancers at the hight of their power you would not throw their unlives away.