Raid Finder Loot Rules Update

Community
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here’s how it’ll work:

  • A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.

  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the ‘Greed’ button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls ‘Need’ and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.

So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she’s right out from the start. The Fury warrior’s Need roll was higher than the tanks’, but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn’t only for tanking items either — it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won’t overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won’t reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we’ll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it’s released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
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90 Tauren Hunter
17025
07/10/2011 17:59Posted by Meozeldian
We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we’ll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it’s released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.


And the rules for what loot you can roll on changes ONCE AGAIN during the 'leveling' process.

So 1-60 you can roll need on anything, 60-85 you can only need on things suitable for your class, and 85 hard places you start getting bonuses on some of your rolls.

Yeah, NO ONE will be confused by this. *slow clap*
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85 Troll Shaman
9425
How do you flag something as a healing item, when for example elemental shaman, shadow priest and balance druid use gear that has spirit also as healers?
Edited by Munjica on 07/10/2011 18:26 BST
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
I'm thinking similar things about agility gear. If DPS get a +100 bonus to rolls on agility leather, I wonder how hard might it be to gear a druid tank.

On the whole, it looks like a solid idea though. It'll be interesting to see how the transfers onto Live servers. I'm quite surprised with how well this solution might work out, and hopefully we'll see it implemented across the board :)

*Edit. Depending on how the technical side of all this works, my guess is that Blizz should be able to flag an item as being for multiple roles.
Edited by Galdaban on 07/10/2011 18:36 BST
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90 Goblin Priest
11710
I would also like to know how this will work for casters who use spirit, and also feral tanks vs. feral druids/rogues/hunters. There is no gear differentiation.

So you're saying that because some tanks use parry, and druids do not, they have to roll against the dps specs but prot paladins and warriors, for instance, do not?
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90 Night Elf Druid
14255
As a feral druid (bear) I am concerned about this change.

The weapons I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps) and hunters (dps)
The armour I need as a bear (tank) is also needed by cats (dps) and rogues (dps)
The rings and necklaces I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps), rogues (dps), hunters (dps) and shaman (dps).
The trinkets I need, well they are just a nightmare as I would use both agility and stamina trinkets depending on the encounter.

I honestly don't see how items can be flagged simply as tank, dps or healer under these circumstances.
Edited by Willow on 07/10/2011 18:35 BST
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85 Human Paladin
2070
Jesus christ how about instead of whining about everything, you actually appreciate the fact that they took our comments and suggestions an decided to try and address the loot issuse. You people will whine no matter what they do >.>

07/10/2011 17:59Posted by Meozeldian
please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it’s released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.


oh snap people, might that mean ptr feedback may see it tweaked/improved. y'all do realise 4.3 isn't exactly comming out next week theres time for plenty of changes.
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85 Goblin Shaman
0
So as an enhancement shaman I will get a +100 to rolls to get mail with intellect (elemental gear) for my healing spec, good to know. I hope that no elemental gets the idea of looting my agility gear, that will make me a sad goblin.

Leather with agility will be tank gear? dps gear?

Don't really think that that will sort everything out, but it might be better than it was.
Edited by Sielha on 07/10/2011 18:48 BST
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85 Worgen Warlock
12035
So it only took you 2 years or so to realize that the loot system was flawed and needed to classify items to what role it's intended for, despite people saying so from the start, now I'm getting hopeful that in another 2 years or so I might not have to choose role on role checks every time I pug when playing a pure DPS class ...
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90 Goblin Priest
11710
Dodgerz, we are voicing questions and concerns on a feature not yet implemented. In my experience, that is nothing more than attempting to ensure that everyone is as well-informed and happy about the new features as possible. Perhaps they DO need to tweak this to account for other things.
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86 Troll Druid
8070
Great job making something that should be fairly simple rather complicated. You better come up with a very clear and concise definition of "roles" and what it takes to qualify for them during an encounter.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
13790
The weapons I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps) and hunters (dps)
The armour I need as a bear (tank) is also needed by cats (dps) and rogues (dps)
The rings and necklaces I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps), rogues (dps), hunters (dps) and shaman (dps).
The trinkets I need, well they are just a nightmare as I would use both agility and stamina trinkets depending on the encounter.


Then I'm presuming you would be rolling against those people for the loot exactly like you would in a normal raid because the items would be flagged for both tanks and DPS.

They might have to split the DPS role up into casters and physical DPS to prevent ferals rolling on boomkin/resto gear and enh shammies rolling on gear for their ele/resto spec.
Edited by Dwarphman on 07/10/2011 18:50 BST
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90 Night Elf Druid
16220
Band aid solution.

The complete rulebook for instances just got another page.

The TBC systems did not require band aids, hence they were obviously better.
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90 Goblin Priest
11710
07/10/2011 18:47Posted by Dwarphman
Then I'm presuming you would be rolling against those people for the loot exactly like you would in a normal raid because the items would be flagged for both tanks and DPS.


But doesn't that mean that plate tanks will gear up faster because they aren't rolling against other specs? If you have a druid tank and a paladin tank in the raid, the paladin will just win all of the plate tank pieces because of this "I win button", but the druid might lose them to the hunter.
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85 Worgen Warlock
12035
07/10/2011 18:43Posted by Dodgerz
Jesus christ how about instead of whining about everything, you actually appreciate the fact that they took our comments and suggestions an decided to try and address the loot issuse. You people will whine no matter what they do >.>


I'm sure people would have appreciated it more if it happened like 2 years ago when it started to be an issue. Now it's just another thing that should have been done a long time ago and will most likely be half assed causing as many problems as it fixes, time will tell on that one though.
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90 Human Warlock
12000
I wonder if this system will make +HIT cloth items specific for damage dealers.

If not it will mean I can't roll on +SPI cloth as a lock (I con't care but I see enough locks/mages that have a head or shoulder with reforged +SPI) but a Priest healer can roll on a +HIT cloth item (reforge for main use or simply rolling for his shadow off-spec) that is just as bad for a healer as the +SPI is for me as a lock.

I'll give it a "like" for now, but they better do this right and not half assed with partial rules that not always apply
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1 Gnome Priest
0
On a more serious note, some suggestions:
1. Perform the flagging automatically with a (long) set of rules: this will also let you enable it for all dungeons, including leveling ones
2. Make sure trinkets and weapons are correctly handled
3. Make sure that "class restrictions" work with non-armor-typed loot: for instance, a druid shouldn't be able to need on Strength cloak regardless of class
4. As a corollary of the above, just "flagging by role" is wrong, you need to flag by spec
5. There's the issue of moonkins vs feral cats and enhancement vs elemental shamans: you might want to split the "DPS" role into separate "ranged" and "melee" roles
Edited by Lolisa on 07/10/2011 18:51 BST
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90 Pandaren Rogue
13675
As a feral druid (bear) I am concerned about this change.

The weapons I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps) and hunters (dps)
The armour I need as a bear (tank) is also needed by cats (dps) and rogues (dps)
The rings and necklaces I need as a bear (tank) are also needed by cats (dps), rogues (dps), hunters (dps) and shaman (dps).
The trinkets I need, well they are just a nightmare as I would use both agility and stamina trinkets depending on the encounter.

I honestly don't see how items can be flagged simply as tank, dps or healer under these circumstances.


This.

From my perspective as a feral tank (ignore the char I'm posting this on) nothing really changes - random morons can still ninja loot "dps" items that a bear would use to tank as well as having to compete as listed above. Compare that to the plate tanks who only have to compete with 1 other person (e.g. the other tank) - a tad imbalanced from a tanking perspective.

Other than that (which I suspect will be something we have to just live with) I like the implementation. Certainly a step in the right direction.
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+100 roll = MS need button. So may be devs should just add this this third button in order to abvoid comfusing?
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