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I was in a raid and i kept the tank alive fine, but someone complained "dude yopur heals per second suck" but i didnt need to constantly heal, i was tank healing on ragnaros, so when they switched to my tank was when i needed to heal (progression raid, didnt hit phase 3)

My tank only went as low as 50% twice, the rest of the time was 75%-100%

my overhealing was minimal, and i still had alot of mana but my heals per second were only about 5k.

should i overheal to look good on the meters? or should i just heal what i need?

You should not overheal to look good at the meters.
Just tell them to shut up, you never lost someone, no one was in danger, and no one got stressed out because of the healing.

Having said that, it does not hurt to help the other healers.
And even if there is no apparent damage incoming on the tank.
You want to keep on casting your mana efficient casts in order to keep Ancestral Fortitude.

Your job is keeping people alive. If you can help the other healers with a chain heal or anything else when you got some time out of the tank,then that is welcome.

But as long as you do your part correctly,you shouldn't let meters get you.

When I'm healing on my resto druid, there is fights where my HPS is the lowest in the group, for example heroic 25 Beth, this is becuase i'm assigned to heal myself and 2 dps talking the broodlings, while another aoe healer is stood in the middle doing a LOT of aoe healing on well over half the raid.

As long as you keep your assignment alive, HPS dosn't mean a thing.

this player saying your hps is bad, tell him so shut up :)

What the others said, basically.
If someone in our raids were !@#$%ing on meters when things go smooth i would take it as a personal crusade to make that persons life really miserable

Well the thing is, (I'm assuming u ran with 3 healers?) with that sort of HPS I'm quite convinced that another healer was healing your target. I know I'm tossing mana efficient heals on tanks if I've got the time. So it's likely that even when you felt that you don't need to heal was because someone else was doing part of your job for you straining them more. With 3 healers on normal raggy each should be somewhere between 8-11k hps without much of a problem. In p3 this will drop as there's no raid damage at all. If you did it with 2 healers then I'm guessing the strain on your healer counterpart was even more =/.

You need to give m

I was in a raid and i kept the tank alive fine, but someone complained "dude yopur heals per second suck" but i didnt need to constantly heal, i was tank healing on ragnaros, so when they switched to my tank was when i needed to heal (progression raid, didnt hit phase 3)

My tank only went as low as 50% twice, the rest of the time was 75%-100%

my overhealing was minimal, and i still had alot of mana but my heals per second were only about 5k.

should i overheal to look good on the meters? or should i just heal what i need?

You need to give more information before we can legitimately determine if you were at fault in anyway. For example, why were you only tank healing?

In p1, you can have the melee stack on top of the tanks, since there's no seeds spawn. In that phase alone, you should be able to throw out some chain heals and drop healing rain to heal melee as well as the tank.

One thing that bothers me as a raid leader, is a healer who only heals his assigned task, and doesn't try to push himself. Yes, its great that your tanks didn't die, but given you didn't hit p3, other people obviously did (and innevitably you and the tanks eventually). Did those other people die from minimal damage you could have helped with? A spare chain heal, or even a riptide (you can use every second riptide on a random raid member and still keep it up 100% on the tank).

Were other people healing your targets? This is a big cause of hps loss, especially in a 3 healer set up. I will ALWAYS spam my nourish on a tank and keep lifebloom up on one, even if he's not my target, because it helps the raid overall.

End of the day, healing isn't about whats in the meters, its about keeping people alive when it matters. If other healers went OOM while you stood casting riptide every 12s and staying at 100% mana, then you did bad.

I was in a raid and i kept the tank alive fine, but someone complained "dude yopur heals per second suck" but i didnt need to constantly heal, i was tank healing on ragnaros, so when they switched to my tank was when i needed to heal (progression raid, didnt hit phase 3)

My tank only went as low as 50% twice, the rest of the time was 75%-100%

my overhealing was minimal, and i still had alot of mana but my heals per second were only about 5k.

should i overheal to look good on the meters? or should i just heal what i need?

My question is how other healers were with mana?
If they struggling with healing(or mana) and you are at full mana then maybe you doing wrong...

There will be XXX amount of damage from a boss, that needs to be healed. You can't really choose to stand around "save mana" (if you don't want to be a burden to the other healers).

If you do so low healing compared to the rest cause you don't feel the need to heal, then maybe the group would be better off with 1 less healer, many fights gets a lot easier with more dps.

Completely agree with Drena.

The extra 5k hps that you're doing on that 1 tank (very odd healing-tactic btw) could also be healed by the 2 other healers. Having another dps gives more breathing room.

But on the subject, why do you heal just 1 tank? Did you really have 1 healer on tank A, 1 healer on tank B, and 1 healer doing everything else? Sounds a bit weird.

On that fight on normal it usually works if you go ffa on healing. Or, if you prefer, ask a healer to take extra care of a certain tank with still healing everything else.

I'm not sure if I can agree that a too low hps is wrong by default. But the healing assignment was. And if you really did nothing else than heal 1 tank on that fight, then yes, you got boosted by the whole raid

I mainly healed the tank and we had a good enough healer to keep the raid up, they were managing fine and i only had to heal a couple of raid members once or twice.

i did have to heal the other tank a couple of times but not often, the other tank got hit harder, but we managed fine, the tank i was healing is a good blood DK with 6k self healing per second and nice mastery (good shield bonus if you know about blood DK mastery.)

We wiped because of one or 2 adds reaching the hammer once, and when we stacked once we got unlucky with the firey floor that goes around raggy and one of his hammers with the waves in bad places. I can safely say that my tank survived perfectly fine and i did help the other healers when needed.

As for my healing tactic, i just dont see the point in wasting mana when you dont need to, i see it as kinda like paying off a debt and then giving the company more money, its pointless and wasting resources. Yeh ill keep doing a bit of healing to keep ancestral fortitude up, but not so much i get alot of overhealing done.

We could 2 healer it, but the other tank was a pug, was a good tank but lacked gear.

(also due to guild events we've had to rebuild our raid team, meaning atm its not as well geared and not as practiced as we once were.)

Basically we had one rather good tank and the other wasn't amazing, i helped all i could but we wiped due to different reasons each time.

If people aren't dying your HPS doesn't matter. You could probably two heal though.

10/11/2011 20:44Posted by Halaberiel

If people aren't dying your HPS doesn't matter. You could probably two heal though.

This is such nonsense

Maybe the actual "hps" doesnt matter, but an underperforming healer DOES matter. Just like an underperforming tank and an underperforming dps matters (even if the boss went down). Now in the example the OP gave us, it's clear he isn't a top-knotch healer.

He prefers keeping his mana (for what?) until the end of the fight, rather than helping his fellow healers. And yes, healing just 1 tank (and once or two times healing someone else) is pure slacking. It means the other healers are carying him. Sure, if I'm some random member in that raid and we kill it and the loot that I want drops, I don't care about the fact that 2 of the 3 healers carried one.

But as a healer, I can get a tad annoyed by the ones that refuse to make an effort

As an example imagine a dps who doesnt bother about dpsing the boss, he will just take care of that one add every 30sec that will take him 3 secs to kill. The rest of the time he just wanders arround and drinking his tea.
The boss dies anyway with a dps less.

Now imagine you have this dpser with you, every raid you do
Would you then say: it doesnt matter because the boss went down?
If so, then I think we will never come close to an agreement

I was having a similar issue a couple of days ago on Heroic Alysrazor. I was on my paladin alt, two healing it with a resto druid.

I ended up with lower Hps than the druid, it wasn't an issue at first, but then when alysrazor resumes phase 1 i.e. ignition when she does the massive aoe and tank damage people were generally low but not too low as to the point of dying. I was able to heal them back up but just barely. My raid leader then made a comment about my overhealing which was over the roof. I dont ever go OOM and I didnt go oom on that fight either so I was explaining how protector of the innocent/beacon etc were contributing to my over healing and that over healing isn't a worry for me because I've done the fight b4 etc...

If people aren't dying your HPS doesn't matter. You could probably two heal though.

This is such nonsense

Maybe the actual "hps" doesnt matter, but an underperforming healer DOES matter. Just like an underperforming tank and an underperforming dps matters (even if the boss went down). Now in the example the OP gave us, it's clear he isn't a top-knotch healer.

He prefers keeping his mana (for what?) until the end of the fight, rather than helping his fellow healers. And yes, healing just 1 tank (and once or two times healing someone else) is pure slacking. It means the other healers are carying him. Sure, if I'm some random member in that raid and we kill it and the loot that I want drops, I don't care about the fact that 2 of the 3 healers carried one.

But as a healer, I can get a tad annoyed by the ones that refuse to make an effort

As an example imagine a dps who doesnt bother about dpsing the boss, he will just take care of that one add every 30sec that will take him 3 secs to kill. The rest of the time he just wanders arround and drinking his tea.
The boss dies anyway with a dps less.

Now imagine you have this dpser with you, every raid you do
Would you then say: it doesnt matter because the boss went down?
If so, then I think we will never come close to an agreement

Your analogy fails, a DPS can always do more damage, a healer can only do so much healing. The fact of the matter is, the job of a healer is to keep the raid alive, and if the raid isn't dying the healers as a collective are doing their job. The resultant raid damage is being healed through so what is the point of him healing? He'd benefit the raid more if he sat there lightning bolting the boss to kill it faster.

As long as the boss dies to be honest I really couldn't care less. If someone can do low DPS & the boss still dies then you obviously over gear the encounter; if you can do low HPS & the boss still dies then you should probably drop a healer - there's no point taking too many healers so some of them have to twiddle their thumbs half the time (no healing to be done...)

I mean it's like on Rag HC, I could do more healing in P1 but what's the point when my druid healer tops everyone off & ends the phase with 100% mana? May as well just sit on the tank so I'm prepared for any spike damage...

A healer who goes around sniping other players heals to increase his HPS is a very bad healer indeed. As a resto druid yourself you must know this more than anyone? Imagine raiding with someone who max healed all your hot targets to full every time you put a rejuv on them... You'd feel a little useless wouldn't you? Not to mention you'd be losing lots of mana for essentially no healing at all.

EDIT: I just realised I could use my Rag normal run today as an example. We used three healers, a disc priest, a resto shammy & a resto druid (me). I was sitting on 42% of healing, the disc priest 25% and the resto sham 23%. It was no problem, at this level of healing I would still finish the fight with quite a bit of mana. One of our DPS had to leave so we decided to 9 man & use two healers. My healing went up to 55-60%, and the other healer to 30-35%. At this stage it was pushing it, I just about finished the fight before going oom. The point I'm trying to make is as long as you finish the fight it really doesn't matter how you get there. My healing was far greater than the other healer but it didn't matter, the resto sham no doubt could of healed some of my hot targets (to increase his HPS/%H), but it wouldn't of made the fight any easier.

The thing about Ragnaros as well is, especially at low iLv, warrior & DK tanks can easilly get globalled (ie killed within a matter of seconds). This makes it very attractive to put someone permanently on the tanks & no one else. Which is (from what I could see) kind of where the OP comes in. This is actually the biggest problem with Ragnaros at least in the pugs I've been in. Tank deaths happen far too often because healers start healing different targets & don't concentrate enough on the tank HP. You really do need to try to keep the tank above 50% all the time if possible, they're the only people that take spike damage (as long as no one gets hit by waves/engulfing, but that's their fault anyway). You can leave a DPS on half HP until the next trap spawns, it's only at that point that they have any real priority as far as healing goes.

Anyhow just my few cents xD

10/11/2011 22:51Posted by Uuizz

He prefers keeping his mana (for what?) until the end of the fight,

Reason is i usually go oom a bit too soon, i think this is a matter of gear atm, hopefully i will be able to go all out healing soon once ive got more gear behind me. I help them down ragnaros, but only when im the only healer left, only get priority on 6/7 bosses.

e.g. major, 2 scorpion phases usually hurt my mana pretty bad, although its nice everyone being stacked, healing rain and chain heal i find quite mana consuming.

And if you add the tank self heals with my heals it comes to about 11-12k hps.

@ Halaberiel

You raid with the assumption your fellow raiders are good. You probably raid in a team where you know what the other can and cannot do.

I've raided in good guilds in the past, but atm I'm just socializing in a guild of friends. I raid in pug's which usually end up killing Raggy. The problem about pug's is that you can't be too picky and you have bad apples in there.

And instead of pushing hardmodes where the whole team has the same mindset as you do, you raid with people who's reason for being there, are completely different.

My analogy didn't fail, because I wasnt comparing the amount of dps with the amount of hps. As I said in my previous post "maybe the actual "hps" doesn't matter, but an underperforming healer DOES matter". I compared underperforming people in a team, where the team can succeed when underperforming people fail. I could compare it with a footballteam where you have one player who consistantly shoots the ball in his own goal, but you can still win the match.

I'm not interested in hps. I was talking about a bad healer. Your examples all refer to hps as being bad healing (apperantly you think that's what I meant; I did not).

This part of the discussion is more of a generalisation and not really appointed to the OP.

Whem I'm solo tankhealing the tanks on the ragnaros fight I'm doing around 16k hps. I'd say something indeed is wrong. You doing 5k dps probably means one or both of the other healers constantly had to jump in on healing the tanks.

I once raided with a paladin doing 8k hps on the tanks, he was supposed to solo tank heal. However this was way too low and I was constantly jumping in to save their asses as his 8k was way too low.

5k can never be enough on solo tank healing whatsoever. :O

10/11/2011 20:44Posted by Halaberiel

If people aren't dying your HPS doesn't matter. You could probably two heal though.

Actually Halaberiel is right here. The healers' jobs it to keep people alive. If people are not dying and don't need to overstretch themselves to keep people alive, HPS doesn't matter. Like Hala said, on Beth Heroic (10man for me, that is) my healing is way higher than the Druid but that's because he is healing the Broodling DPS.

If a healer is under-performing, the other healer/s would be the first ones to pick it up and raise their concern. Healing isn't about individual performance on most fights, but about the collective healing team. Once again, if people aren't dying and the healers are not having troubles healing them, then HPS does not matter. Except if you want to get ranked (Damn you Sypro, forgot to log Beth HC, I would've got ranked ffs!)!

Think of it this way: As long as people never die, your HPs is always fine. In fact, HPs is a pretty crappy estimate of player performance overall. It doesn't work quite as well as DPS, which also happens to not be the most optimal way to judge somebody.

That's because during some encounters, you frankly never have to go above 5000 HPs unless somebody screws up. Then suddenly, a huge burst of damage is incoming and you do your job right - but the other healers don't. Your group wipes and you end up on say, 6200 HPs average whereas the other healers had 7500 average. Now everybody's looking at you with angry faces, eventually kicking you from the group.
But why did this happen? Well, you never needed to cast any big heals and wanted to conserve your mana for the tougher phase. The other healers were just streamrolling through the entire encounter - never changing a thing. As it turns out, during phase 2 you had say 18000 HPs and the other healers had 7500.
But nobody is ever going to know that. You'll still get kicked and whined at, whereas the other healers will think they're awesome because their meters tell them so.

That said: As long as nobody dies, It doesn't really matter what your HPs is. If people start dying, you can ask yourself if you're healing enough. Although HPs isn't always correct due to the scenario I described above, It can at least be refered to "more" accurately if people die - because then obviously enough healing wasn't done one way or another.

Overall, don't pay too much attention to HPs. Instead, focus on your job. If you're assigned to healing a tank and the tank never dies, you're doing your job no matter if you have 2000, 5000 or 15000 HPs. However, just because you're tank-healing doesn't mean you cannot assist anywhere else when needed. If your tank is topped off or if someone else is in immediate danger, throw a couple of heals around. As long as you don't go OOM before the fight is over, you should always heal as much as possible everywhere.
"Tank healing" essentially just means that It's your primary focus - you should never overextend yourself so much as to lose your tank, and you should try to always stay in range of him if he's in any kind of danger. But optimize your role as much as you can - Healing Waves can be cast pretty much nonstop, Healing Rain can be put in place on a cluster of allies in need of healing without too much disruption to your tank healing and a couple of the previously mentioned Healing Waves can be switched out to Chain Heals if other people close to the tank need healing as well.

Because HPs is so inaccurate, It's hard to tell exactly what healer is doing his job wrong. Just optimize your class and role as much as possible - when you do, you can stay confident that It's not YOUR fault.