Community? Not in WoW.

90 Worgen Hunter
10070
I've gone tired of the cross realm madness. Any community that previously existed can now be declared dead. Noone knows who anyone is on any servers anymore. PvP in its entirety and most instanced PvE content barring raids are now just littered with people you don't know that you are highly unlikely to ever meet again. Noone cares about the people they group with, it doesn't matter much how you behave because it's highly unlikely that you will have anything to do with them again. It's probably a couple of years since the last time I saw anyone speak more than two words in a five-man instance except for complaining about someone elses dps, unless it's a guild group. Basically, the main arenas where a community is maintained has disappeared.

Before, you could meet people from your own server, that are part of your own community. Making friends in the game was much more important back then. You'd get to know people outside of your immediate circle of guildies and real life friends, which you are still likely to deal with on a regular basis. Gone are the days when you actually had to communicate with people to find a group for a five man run.

While the looking for group system in its current incarnation is convenient, I think it's gone way overboard. Limiting it to one server should be more than enough. It should be much more interesting to group with people that you actually have a chance to bump into in Stormwind or Orgrimmar. People wouldn't bother with communiction with other servers outside of real life friends, sure enough, but there would be some communication within the server instead. Much more important, I think.

While it's everyone's own choice to use these features, the fact remains that people will nearly always choose conveniency over quality if the choice is there.

Removing the feature is probably totally out of the question, and probably not the best idea. But how about enhancing it with an optional cross realm search. If that gained some traction we might be able to revive some of the communities of old. Guilds would have a new reason to engage in 5-man content, because that's the best place to discover potential new members within your own server. Even while not actively recruiting, guild members would have an easier time discovering quality players for future reference. A few months later you're recruiting, and bump into this player remembering how he or she would make a great addition to the guild.

Maybe I'm just the jaded oldtimer remembering the good old days. It's been 7, going on 8 years now, playing this same good old Hunter. So, anyone with me on this? Am I wrong? Does people experience an enhanced community, or the same old one? Have I just fallen off the community cart, or do we need to go back a couple of steps?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
15645
+1
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90 Undead Priest
8570
+1
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90 Gnome Mage
16855
10/01/2012 20:05Posted by Stark
Maybe I'm just the jaded oldtimer remembering the good old days. It's been 7, going on 8 years now

Hold up your fingers and count from 2005 to 2012.

You're not wrong, but at the same time, there are some points which aren't entirely correct. Quel'thalas still has a lot of people who everyone 'knows', but at the same time not as many as before. And there are a lot of randomers who aren't really known. I agree, this is due to cross server but frankly I support cross realm. If you recall correctly, battleground wait times were horrificly lengthy. Finding a group for a dungeon was horribly hard if you weren't known.

The dungeon tool still had that element of "If you aren't known, you likely won't be picked by someone". I sat in the dungeon finder for hours and hours not being picked due to not being a desired class or "whos he? dunno, but this other guy's in a better guild, get him".

Before this we had the barking in the channel with "LFG <instance>" Again, chances are you'd spend more time looking than doing the dungeon. This was not an efficient way of doing things. If we had LFG and such without the cross realm aspect, queue times would increase dramatically once again.

It's a trade off situation. Faster queues or a closer-nit realm community. If they did implement the option of cross realm and same server in the dungeon finder, the latter's queue would be immensely longer. Ergo, in this day and age of "I want things now!", it wouldn't be used as much as cross realm, if at all.
Edited by Krisandra on 11/01/2012 00:01 GMT
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70 Night Elf Hunter
820
11/01/2012 00:00Posted by Krisandra
Maybe I'm just the jaded oldtimer remembering the good old days. It's been 7, going on 8 years now

Hold up your fingers and count from 2005 to 2012.

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 = 8?
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90 Gnome Mage
16855
11/01/2012 01:09Posted by Buakaw

Hold up your fingers and count from 2005 to 2012.

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 = 8?

You don't include 2005 when counting as that's when it was released - in EU at least. If you included 2005, it would imply that a year had already gone and was released February 2004. Ergo, it was 7 years this coming February.
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85 Worgen Warlock
9280
I agree with almost every single point. It's a shame, but it's just the sad reality of the direction gaming has gone in across the board. Perhaps if or when gaming goes back to being the niche it used to be, developers in turn will return to putting a lot more focus upon player interaction, stable communities and other things to make the game world feel more alive.
Edited by Calthric on 11/01/2012 01:53 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
3715
11/01/2012 00:00Posted by Krisandra
Maybe I'm just the jaded oldtimer remembering the good old days. It's been 7, going on 8 years now

Hold up your fingers and count from 2005 to 2012.

You're not wrong, but at the same time, there are some points which aren't entirely correct. Quel'thalas still has a lot of people who everyone 'knows', but at the same time not as many as before. And there are a lot of randomers who aren't really known. I agree, this is due to cross server but frankly I support cross realm. If you recall correctly, battleground wait times were horrificly lengthy. Finding a group for a dungeon was horribly hard if you weren't known.

The dungeon tool still had that element of "If you aren't known, you likely won't be picked by someone". I sat in the dungeon finder for hours and hours not being picked due to not being a desired class or "whos he? dunno, but this other guy's in a better guild, get him".

Before this we had the barking in the channel with "LFG <instance>" Again, chances are you'd spend more time looking than doing the dungeon. This was not an efficient way of doing things. If we had LFG and such without the cross realm aspect, queue times would increase dramatically once again.

It's a trade off situation. Faster queues or a closer-nit realm community. If they did implement the option of cross realm and same server in the dungeon finder, the latter's queue would be immensely longer. Ergo, in this day and age of "I want things now!", it wouldn't be used as much as cross realm, if at all.


LFD does in many ways fulfil a needed function, but lets face it. It's also a massive failure in terms of social interaction and encouraging bad players to troll it up like there's no tomorrow

If they implemented a server only LFD I would be all over that like it was sexy and covered in chocolate

why? because a longer queue time would most definitely be preferable to waiting 10-20 minutes for what can only be described as a brain meltingly bad time with a bunch of nuisance players who can do what they want and NEVER suffer any backlash from the servers community

an extra 10-15 minutes per queue for a community that can once again tell greedy and uncouth players to gt*o again? oh dear god yes! yes please!! where do i sign for this???
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80 Human Paladin
0
Once upon a time WoW had a great community...

I think every expansion was a step in the wrong direction as far as "massive" (in MMO) and "social" goes. I liked it in Vanilla that we needed 40 players to even raid at all. I liked it when I had to put effort to be recruited by a guild and prove myself. I liked it that each person had a reputation on the server. I liked it when I actually needed to know how to play to experience the entire game. It was an incentive. Right now everything is so easy, there's simply no incentive to do serious raiding whatsoever.

Sure, there's hard modes, but it's the same instance, the incentive of extra stats is simply not enough if I'm doing the exact same bosses and all. It's just a massive grind and rehashed content is painfully obvious when I'm doing hard mode of the exact same instance instead of a new instance (even if it was not the most original instance ever, I still prefer it to running each instance over and over in LFR, normal and heroic modes as progression).

I never minded the heroics for normal 5 man instances because they made instances that would otherwise not be relevant, relevant (in TBC it was perfect). But that's where it had to stop. Raids should have 1 difficulty. Anyway, enough venting, back to the thread's subject...

...right now I'd accept it if a community existed at all. I disagree that it's the gamers' fault, though. I think Blizzard has themselves to blame too for this, mostly, even if it's just for catering to the people that want everything on a silver platter, and, sadly, it's influencing the entire genre. Just look at SW:TOR. It basically copied all the bad (extremely formulaic) parts of WoW and none of the good ones.
Edited by Porcelain on 11/01/2012 05:59 GMT
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90 Worgen Hunter
10070

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 = 8?

You don't include 2005 when counting as that's when it was released - in EU at least. If you included 2005, it would imply that a year had already gone and was released February 2004. Ergo, it was 7 years this coming February.


I was counting 2004 actually, I was in various betas before the release. Though I played the same class I guess it's inaccurate to say it was this same old one. =)
Edited by Stark on 11/01/2012 09:19 GMT
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90 Human Hunter
14945
I've gone tired of the cross realm madness. Any community that previously existed can now be declared dead<..>
Completely wrong. Community exist within guilds. Also guild names something means on server. Its just absent in LFR/LFD, and its not needed - why would you really care about someone who you see first and last time? There are exactly 0 reasons for that. "Cross-realm madness" serves its purpose very well - you don't have to look 2 hours for a tank for your group or something. Completely casual players no can experience raid environment, and such. That's it. It has never purpose of promoting cross-realm community because its simply not possible.
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85 Human Hunter
1595
guilds are for communities
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90 Draenei Shaman
11985
10/01/2012 20:05Posted by Stark
While it's everyone's own choice to use these features, the fact remains that people will nearly always choose conveniency over quality if the choice is there.

If people continues to choose conveniency over quality, I have 2 questions:
What is the quality?
If people continues to do that, is the quality really quality?

I really cannot make any sense of that sentence.
Either because quality haven't been defined, OP have yet to explain what s/he thinks quality is or the quality simply isn't quality.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
10655
Haha, I find threads and thoughts like these to be highly amusing. Why do you care so much about a community? Why does it matter so much that you know who everyone is? I certainly would not like it to be that way thank you very much, and I'm being honest.
I mean, in an online game, anyone can tell you anything with no real consequences. I could tell you I'm a very attractive lady (which I am not) and you would not know the difference because it's all anonymous. It's all fake, it always was fake. Having a community based around a game whose sole purpose is the collection of gear and equipment is completely false.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
6305
I've gone tired of the cross realm madness. Any community that previously existed can now be declared dead. Noone knows who anyone is on any servers anymore. PvP in its entirety and most instanced PvE content barring raids are now just littered with people you don't know that you are highly unlikely to ever meet again. Noone cares about the people they group with, it doesn't matter much how you behave because it's highly unlikely that you will have anything to do with them again. It's probably a couple of years since the last time I saw anyone speak more than two words in a five-man instance except for complaining about someone elses dps, unless it's a guild group. Basically, the main arenas where a community is maintained has disappeared.


The bolded and underlined is the reason why I would actually encourage people to "name and shame". Considering how people act nowadays it might be a good thing to, by "shaming" them, make them "feel bad" about their actions.

I know it's a naive thing to hope for, but I believe that noone would like if half the forum/realm said bad things about them (if they are true and can be proven)... there might even be a chance of them stopping and actually thinking about their behavior.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11985
Haha, I find threads and thoughts like these to be highly amusing. Why do you care so much about a community? Why does it matter so much that you know who everyone is? I certainly would not like it to be that way thank you very much, and I'm being honest.
I mean, in an online game, anyone can tell you anything with no real consequences. I could tell you I'm a very attractive lady (which I am not) and you would not know the difference because it's all anonymous. It's all fake, it always was fake. Having a community based around a game whose sole purpose is the collection of gear and equipment is completely false.

Do you know WHY people would not want to take some people with them in a group?

Reputation.

If a person has a reputation for being a ninja, how often do you think a pug would take said person with them?
If the person was an immature brat who swore at people for being too slow, yet DPS'ing on sheep?

In Vanilla and TBC, reputation was everything. People knew everyone; they knew who would make a good group, who would make a bad group and, ultimately, who to recruite for their guild.
Back then, the servers were the community, not the game itself.


Who gives a damn if it's fake? Here's the thing:
WoW is not a singleplayer game. Every character, which is not an NPC, is a real human being.

This game is about more than one person; it's about teaming up with 4, 9 or 24 other people and defeat bosses.
Back then, when LFD and LFR didn't exist, it was important to know other people.
It also ment that you could evade ninjas, immature people or downright baddies by not inviting them.

That is far from reality today, which actually is very, very bad:
WoW has become more of a singleplayer-game than an MMO.

THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING!

Even though I love the LFD and LFR-features, the rewards are waaay too big for the risks.
Blizzard have gone away from guilds being the main thing in WoW, to make lone wolfs the main thing.
And that is a mistake.
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11/01/2012 11:05Posted by Teiksma
Completely wrong. Community exist within guilds. Also guild names something means on server. Its just absent in LFR/LFD, and its not needed - why would you really care about someone who you see first and last time? There are exactly 0 reasons for that. "Cross-realm madness" serves its purpose very well - you don't have to look 2 hours for a tank for your group or something. Completely casual players no can experience raid environment, and such. That's it. It has never purpose of promoting cross-realm community because its simply not possible.


My thoughts exactly....

I don't go into dungeons for meaningful conversation. I go in to get JP. It is a means to an end. My friends are in my guild. I don't mind if people hardly speak two words in the dungeons - as long as it goes OK with no flaming or griefing I am happy enough. Polite and humourous people are a bonus.

The LFD serves my needs right now. Not perfect I know....and probably nothing compared to how things used to be...but to be fair, if it is community you are after, guilds should cater to your needs in this regard I think.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
10655
And while that is a bad thing for you, it's a fantastic thing for me. Now, I can do things whenever I want because the servers are so full of people, also I can just pop master looter on to avoid ninjas and also, this game should always have been singleplayer because it would have suited it more AND because I have no time or any interest whatsoever in getting to know people who I know nothing about.

However, I will admit that playing with others is fun simply because they are people and not robotic npcs. So it may seem I am contradicting myself, maybe I am, but that's the way I feel about this game.
Edited by Turalyos on 11/01/2012 13:02 GMT
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11/01/2012 13:01Posted by Turalyos
However, I will admit that playing with others is fun simply because they are people and not robotic npcs


This is what makes wow so good for me....I have played single player games all my life, and the feel of playing with others in a world called Azeroth is simply brilliant.

The OP laments the lack of community, and makes suggestions as to how to imporve the LFD tool to increase the chances of meeting social people from the same realm.

I guess it is a good idea, not one I would probably use however. Limiting one's option of a group to same server players would increase one's queue times. And truth be told, I would probably still end up grouping with players I have never heard of anyway. And I am not niave enough to think that players from my server are gonna be any more social to me than I am to them, just becasue we come from the same server.

There still is a community in wow, you just need to know where to look.

And I would start looking in guilds and city channels, not in random dungeons :)

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Community
Unfortunately, that opinion is very subjective. The continued popularity of the cross-realm LFD tool, and now the LFR, indicates that a great number of players are just fine with using it for quicker access, rather than attempting to group up with people on the same realm.

Also, implying that every group in LFD/LFR is filled with people you'd gladly never group up with again is exaggerating the actual situation. There are many of us who use the tools a lot, and rarely experience this.

Having said all that, the future BattleTag system will go a long way to improving the ability to build and maintain cross-realm friendships, eliminating the need to fill groups with as many 'randoms'.

why? because a longer queue time would most definitely be preferable to waiting 10-20 minutes for what can only be described as a brain meltingly bad time with a bunch of nuisance players who can do what they want and NEVER suffer any backlash from the servers community

an extra 10-15 minutes per queue for a community that can once again tell greedy and uncouth players to gt*o again? oh dear god yes! yes please!! where do i sign for this???
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