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tbh i think ret is fine but odly it's to proc based and like it feels like evryone has a way to remove anything u pop/use.
i only started to play ret after i saw the incoming nerf to vengence in pvp but from what i saw so far is compared to other classes i die quite fast in arena (mage+rogue says hi srlsy died in a opener from a rogue mage as ret -.-and yes i have pvp gear 4.7k resil )
the damage is fine to bad 90% of teh time ppl manage to kite me(maybe its a problem on my side still learning ret like i said) while the wog heals i get are sexy(specialy on the partner i play with, 120k wog crit on rogue <3) dunno i wont say its bad or good until il get some hours playing as ret.

PS: rest in pice my prot spec in next patch.

I don't want to bash anyone or anything (I'm hardly in a position to anyway), but I find it abit odd that many of the people who say that ret is fine play holy with a PvE-ret OS, and most of them don't even have 10k HKs. No, HKs don't determine skill, but it gives us a rather clear hint of how much PvP one has done on a particular char, and the appearent fact that almost no one plays the spec (compared to how many play holy, ignoring how many warrs and DKs are around) speaks for itself.

15/01/2012 06:18Posted by Pootis

I don't want to bash anyone or anything (I'm hardly in a position to anyway), but I find it abit odd that many of the people who say that ret is fine play holy with a PvE-ret OS, and most of them don't even have 10k HKs. No, HKs don't determine skill, but it gives us a rather clear hint of how much PvP one has done on a particular char, and the appearent fact that almost no one plays the spec (compared to how many play holy, ignoring how many warrs and DKs are around) speaks for itself.

man the damage a ret does its fine the problem is evryone who has a clue can kite a ret and just take care of his wings/bubble and so on, ret needs babysiting alone ret sucks ballz paired with the right ppl it can be op , but the NO1 problem it is to proc based u get the procs = 1 happy ret no luck = sad panda.in this patch my prot spec is better then ret(maybe cuz i just played it for the last 3 years) i manage to slow ppl so i can get near them as prot whiles as ret god hellp me.

PS i got 56k hk's me is pro ?XD

MFW Pallies will get a buff in Ret form, whilst their OS healer spec is the most powerful in the game - Soloing 10man HC Ultraxion

Whilst...

Warriors are the weakest tanks (Magical damage migr- oh.)
Warriors are the joint weakest pvp classes - See any hunter and warriors in the top 100? Maybe... 2-3?
Warriors don't even have a healing OS.

15/01/2012 05:33Posted by Pisciotta

AW+Sacred Shield+3HP WoG (w/ Last Word) = From D: to :D

U do realize the conditions needed for this?
1) be at low life (else no Sacred Shield)
2) save 3hps (or 1 dp proc)
3) burn a 2min dmg cd to selfheal
4) stacking crits just for that (heals)
5) don't say u can use it under zealotry cos u never knows in arena how long u'll sit on a player as melee
5) a specific spec
It doesn't come cheap...

Improved Hammer of Justice talent in the Prot tree.

u're paladins not mages so u actually gotta choose 1 decent thing among 2 trees, unlike others... u proud of it? I wouldn't...

Seal of Insight

U wanna go with less expertise than needed to bypass the standard 5% dodge of any class (mages included), without censure? U might see even healers stopping to lol at u... do not forget that without censure u're the lowest among the lowest melee dmg dealers...

I'm perfectly aware of how the standard 5% dodge is and that Truth is basically a necessity. However I just said this in terms of him mentioning an ability that heals on damage, Insight is rarely used in PvP, only in situations where you may want to play a little defensive. With WoG again, yes I understand the conditions needed to meet the huge crits, most high end paladins are specced into Last Word nowadays anyway.

increasing buble back to 10 sec

when did bubble have a 10 sec duration? and how did we bubblehearth when duration of bubble was the same as the casttime for hearthstone?

If you knew your history, you would know that bubble had a 12 sec duration before nerfed.

yeah no the first two seconds dont count cause you still receive damage in the first second and the second one starts up the recovery sequence so even tough it was 12 seconds you actually used it for 10 lol

Btw Scargeto youre just a friggin coward who is afraid to face ppl instead you go around and QQ to GMs like a kid very mature and you dont even know how to play a paladin so dont let me even see you in this forum ever again. As for the paladins they are not as underpowered as warriors but i think they needed a little boost cause i liked them better when they were op like frost mages are now today and truth is ret pala always fell behind other clases in terms of pvp in the duration of cata you just used wog and cleanse in hopes of cathing the caster and damaging him IF that is you can cath him and keep him in low health but in mop things are looking fine just add zelatory back and some damage polishing and it will be fine and make it so crusader strike gives a charge of holy power

this guy has a l2p issue i just want to shoot people as bad as him

Oh man I love this post :D Made me laugh so much I got a stomach cramp :DDD

Thanks for necroing this post, I love you man :D

08/01/2012 18:14Posted by Roxxion

dks using lichborne

one skill! turn evil.....

09/01/2012 16:18Posted by Roxxion

Any player who defends the idea of paladins being ''FİNE'' doesnt have the slightest idea on how to play the class and should reroll.

now your starting to troll lol!!! rets are fine its really a l2p issue! check out Jimos he is multiple rank 1 in different seasons! one of the best Ret Paladin... how come he never complains or whines like you and asks for buffs? its because he has so much expierence playing ret. i dont know if this is your main or if you just dinged lvl 85, but i have played paladin since vanilla on my old account. and i dont see any problems with paladins actually there really viable now. i dont really play arena anymore... i just get sometimes annoyned that pve just dominates you in arena so ill wait till mop to get serious again about pvping, now i just do random bgs and world pvp with my guild! and in random bgs, because of my 100k wog heals... i can 2v1 and 3v1.

so its a L2P issue read some guides, about enchants, gems, reforging and tips. maybe your a keyboard turner, if you are learn to move with your mouse, keybind, and use macros!

best macro for your AW /cancleaura Avenging Wrath, pop AW throw 1 hammer than use the macro... and ur 100% sure the mage will not get the 20% dmg increase!!

I know how to play my class and as a matter of fact i happen to be very good at it u just cought me offguard i forgot that holy tree had a talent named as last word so i assumed you were talking about wep which also helps healing

lol this guy is seriously trolling!!!

Is this a joke?

Okay, lets look at ret paladins, shall we?

Sacred Shield - When reduced below 30% health, you gain the Sacred Shield effect. The Sacred Shield absorbs 31053 damage and increases healing received by 20%. Lasts 15 sec. This effect cannot occurr more than once every 60 sec.

Alright, as we all know. Paladins got Word of Glory now, we have seen that it can crit like 80k heal or atleast from 30k to 50k non crit.

Ret paladins has the best current burst and is probably the third dps doing most damage in PvP.

What good ret paladins does, is they throw their burst off and does INSANE damage and then they stay alive.

As a ret paladin you should roll with another dps partner, i'd prefer hunter, mage, death knight or feral druid. So lets put it like this, you can pop Seal of Insight which can make you heal yourself by 5k heal per CRUSADER STRIKE for example. What good ret paladins does is they stay alive for like 60 second so they can throw NEW burst and when they are about to die, they procc Sacred Shield again.

+ You have bubble and with Divine Plea, you wont run out of mana.

This is a L2P issue for you, ret paladins doesnt need a nerf or buff. They are good as they are.

Rets need more survibiliy or more mobility. We are currectly in the same place as warrior were we are suffering way too much from stunds/cc.

We need more control. Ret paladins bring is insane dps when CDS are blowed, but when they arent up our dps is too low and more than often the enemy is able to get away while we are cc unable to do anything to prevent it. We do not control anything, all we can hope for is the enemy is stupid enough to stay in range while Wings+Guardian is up)

P.S wings should really be undispellable

Firstly, I want to state that I only play ret pvp for fun in bg's and occasionally capping conq points.

However, it seems to me that the ret paladin spec is just inconsistent at best. At times, I can demolish the opposition with my procs stacking three times in a row and with my buffs up. When my GoTAK is down, I find it much harder to do any damage, especially considering that my AW is easily dispellable by shamans and can be stolen by mages (Uh Oh).

I also have issues with kiting, which has already been mentioned. I find that the speed increase from the judgement just isn't enough, especially when it is reduced by abilities such as concussive shot. Now, I'm the first to admit that the Retadin off-heals are superb, practically overpowered (at least they would be if they were consistent). WoG criticals with AW up can heal up to 80k hp. Without AW and not a critical, a 3 HP WoG may only heal 21k-30k hp. Now you might mention that I should be changing my seal to ensure my opponent cannot move above 100% run speed. However, with abilities such as frost bolt and concussive shot they may be at 100% and I may be at 90% which doesn't help to close the gap. Frostbolt can be dispelled of course, as I would rarely waste a freedom on myself, but this drains mana rather too quickly, resulting in a divine plea and reduced healing - instantly putting you on the defensive. To be honest, the way I normally catch up with players is to play the map, using LoS to lure in casters then judging and HoJ when possible.

I can't see Rets as anything more than a support class, we're really only useful for freedoming other team members, damage mitigation for the team and some great but hit and miss offheals. Our burst, when everything goes right, is fantastic but leaves me hitting comparatively little without my cd's. As i've laboured already, without our cd's we have quite pathetic dps on average, especially when we're not getting free HP procs. Our real strengths lie in our support abilities and intense burst.

The changes I would be interested in would be more consistent damage, less burst, making AW only affect holy power (sorry mages) and reducing our offheals.

EDIT- Crucially, I forgot to mention the generation of HP, which I believe to be too slow. If judgement granted 1 HP, I believe this would help to generate HP at a more sustainable rate. It seems wrong that Retadins must rely on a PvE tier 13 2 piece set bonus for this increased HP generation.

08/01/2012 18:14Posted by Roxxion

same goes for flash of light i can only cast it 2 times

Three. *cough*

dude lol youre a pver and as a matter of fact you suck at pvp and ret palas you shouldnt even bother learning to play you should just quit wow and leave it to pros

if you have enough mana for three left after all the skills you cast then yeah three

lol hammerby and judgement you are both pve paladins and you dare even talk in this forum go not to mention both of your alts are S!@t