Holy vs Discipline

90 Blood Elf Rogue
4275
Quick question: who is the best healing spec at the moment? Holy or Discipline? Im about to turn 85 with my priest and I would like to know who should I pick for HC's and Raids.

Thanks in advance for your help guys.
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90 Pandaren Priest
10855
The one you feel the most comfortable with.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12055
Shadow is da best healing spec!

On topic, I do believe you will find disc more friendly at the start of 85 due to low spirit which pretty much is the basestat for holies.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5305
The best pve healing spec is truley Holy, Discipline is more pvp with all its sheilds, but for big 50 and 25 raids you shoud truley take Holy.
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85 Human Warrior
0
^thats not entirely true, disc and holy is pretty much just as good in pve. The biggest factor is what u enjoy playing the most! Disc is alot better for some fights just as holy is better on some other fights = all in all, they both got their pros and cons.

But starting as disc is the best until u get the spirit for holy. If u enjoy Disc more then Holy, Disc is better for you (as u most prob will be better at disc).
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Either spec goes.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14230
12/01/2012 07:29Posted by Leafburner
The best pve healing spec is truley Holy, Discipline is more pvp with all its sheilds, but for big 50 and 25 raids you shoud truley take Holy


Just... no.

12/01/2012 07:43Posted by Sjant
Either spec goes.


^ this.
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90 Troll Priest
9790
12/01/2012 07:29Posted by Leafburner
The best pve healing spec is truley Holy, Discipline is more pvp with all its sheilds, but for big 50 and 25 raids you shoud truley take Holy.


Please don't go around spreading this kind of crap, it really isn't true at all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5720
I've only played disc so far.

But isn't Disc better for more single target healing and holy more for raid healing?
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90 Troll Priest
9790
12/01/2012 14:30Posted by Kardana
But isn't Disc better for more single target healing and holy more for raid healing?


Propably the most general misconception. Both are equally good at each task, they just have a coulple gimicks that make each spec better for certain situations.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
4275
Thanks a lot to everyone for your opinions. I will give a try at both specs to see what fits me better. As i turned 85 today I think i will stick with disc for a while. At least until I have proper equipment.
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90 Gnome Priest
10580
i think holy is a bit unfrienly in 5mans, but that might just be me, the dmg gets all spikey and stuff ;p but then you got a 3 min hymn.
And when you outgear the content smite healing is amusing ;3
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85 Draenei Priest
5915
It's still the same thing as ever. Holy for raid healing, Discipline for tank healing [Edit: As far as easiness goes]. And either specs are perfectly fine for HC healing.

I've had both Holy/Discipline and did instances without my mana going below 80% ever as Holy and hardly below 70% as Discipline.

Holy = Renew+((Heal+Holy Word: Serenity) spam) is your friend.
The only time you will have to do more than that is if the tank is a stamina stacking retard.

Discipline... well, it's Discipline... PW:Shield and Penance ftw



Just try to not overdo it with either specs when it comes to HCs, once you know the fights, most of the time using every CD of HW:Serenity on the tank is enough heals for him (with the renew refresh) and you use the rest of the time to cast regular Heals on the rest of the party members. Same with Discipline but with shields instead instead of Renew+HW:S
Edited by Cutiecake on 13/01/2012 10:11 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15520
Choosing the best specc has something to do with 2 things: your own personality and the how the fight fits the abilities.

As said, I personally play both speccs (disc better but I'm not a terrible holy either, just not as good as disc). I find both speccs enjoyable and I defo don't hate any, the only thing I hate is to play the non-optimal specc for a fight because "I hate the other". As discipline, you have to be a more aggressive type of healer, need to juggle constantly between damage that already happened and dmg inc, combine pws/bt with poh, know when aegis will be used and when the saving asses quality of shields will be more important than the higher hps of poh. Regen as disc is more powerful than the holy one, but you have to be active about it, watch the rapture icd and abuse it at best. I met a lot of ppl saying it is a boring specc "its all about penance and shields" but most of them dont play disc, or dont play it properly. As nice as penance is, it is hardly a major source of healing for a disc priest - its value sits more in the fast grace buff and quick healing (those situations when you wished your gheal landed half a second earlier even if it hit half). Shields are, again, very nice and a core ability for disc, but mathematically speaking, they are inferior to poh spam for raid healing and evidently are limited for tank healing by the weakened soul debuff. They are also useless if the dmg already happened, and also pretty expensive. Most of the times the top healing sources for a disc priest will be poh for raid healing and gheal for tank healing, with penance and shields being buffers and enhancers for poh/gh. And yes, depending on the nature of dmg, disc can be as solid as a holy priest in terms of raid healing. The whole "disc is a tank healer" is an old misconception. While the overall numbers will be lower than the holy ones, you must never forget that the holy raid cd appears (and is quite a presence) on meters, while the disc one doesn't. There will be situations in which a barrier will be more valuable than an hymn, and the other way around. The AA speccs bring a bit of dpsing too in the equation and knowing when to use archangel is again a decission a disc priest needs to make.

Holy, on the other side, is and always been a game of conserving mana. I know I will offend many holy priests, but the closest model to that is arcane mage: it is the same principle - burst/conserve. To make my point clear, I don't see arcane as a brainless specc (I play one myself) - yes, its easy to play, medium hard to master. No, I don't think any of these speccs - disc, holy or arcane are much of a challenge. I've seen amazing arcane mages and I've seen mediocre ones, surely if the specc was such a braindead thing, there wouldn't be such differences - and this is the case with any class in wow. Anyway, back to the original topic, I see holy as more of a passive type of game: it waits for the dmg to happen and heals it. You watch your mana bar - which as holy has a pretty linear evolution by slowly (or fast) draining and having limited tools to get it back other than just passively regening. Whenever I play holy, I'm partially dazed by the numbers on the screen (:D).

The thing I love about disc and pushes me back as holy is the versatility. I can switch from a decent tank healer to a decent raid healer any given moment and I can react quickly to emergency situations. As holy, even that is happening in some sort of slow motion - as switching chakras has an annoying cd, and even then, the tank healing doesnt feel as powerful. As disc, I feel I can juggle between damage that happened and dmg that is inc, between single target and aoe, between downtime when I can dps and charge up mah lasers and burst. That makes me enjoy the specc greatly, the constant stream of small decisions. As holy, it always feels its between subpar single target and aoe. Sure it's satisfying to place a sanctuary properly, or to use serendipity or to pop an hymn and watch the numbers fly, but those feel a lot more streamlined to me.

As for the other argument, some fights will be more friendly to one specc and others to the other. Guardian spirit and a short cd divine hymn will be better sometimes, while other times barrier will make a difference.

All in all, unless you are playing in some bleeding edge progress guild that has players who will know to squeeze every possibility from a specc, at a normal level there is no given condition that a specc will outshine another in a situation. You can be an amazing holy priest in a fight that is more friendly to disc and the other way around, just because your personality fits better one of them. I doesnt matter the top holy priest in the world is doing 50k hps and the top disc is just pushing 25k, if you are a poor holy priest and a good disc priest, speccing holy it wont make you necessarily better than disc.
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85 Human Priest
11965
I haven't been offended more, even when called "nondiscipline". I can say disc main aoe button is more like arcane. At least holy has CoH. Grace should be nerfed/removed from the game. I'm watching my mana bar only to check my mana (if I need to use mana coodowns - if blizzard leaves me any). i wouldn't call holy "passive" or has "nobrainer" spell. Disc doesn't even use PI for theirselves.

Back on topic - I'm holy and I reccomend holy. Not because of the DH boost (this is not a reason to swith to holy. You're not a dps to switch between speces, because one of 2 is recieved buff. I use DH to save mana). The reasons I recommend holy are:
1. Most of ppl recommended disc last patch and I'm sick and tired of it.
2. Holy is more difficult to play than disc. Some ppl say you'r just pohing. But you have to watch for things like this:
A)You're mana. Disc can play in pvp clothes to compare. Not that hard?
B).Your single target spells are weak. So you have to know what you have to use at the particular moment.
C). Holy does have to predict the dmg more than disc due to lack of mana reg. So precasting is verry important.

Also GS beats PS most of the time. On the other hand disc has Atoment, which is the emblem of disc :P.
GL.
Edited by Dreffan on 13/01/2012 10:55 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12055
13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
Holy is more difficult to play than disc

ehm, no.

13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
Grace should be nerfed/removed from the game

Suure, remove grace from the game. Make disc priests useless tank healers.

13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
Also GS beats PS most of the time.

Wouldn't say that. They are equal, though guardian spirit can become a life saver.


13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
Your single target spells are weak. So you have to know what you have to use at the particular moment.

Are you referring to disc or holy here?

Getting really sick of hearing "that spec is more difficult/harder then the other etc". But I can tell you this, I have been playing holy as main spec since tbc (though I went shadow main spec when DS was released). During firelands I decided to try out the disc spec, guess what? I sucked, I was terribad because I haven't been playing it for years. But yes... as expected it went better through time. In my opinion I find disc more difficult to play then holy becuase I have been playing holy for such a long time, but I do bet a main specced disc priest would feel the same about holy. To sum it up, no... there is no such thing as a more difficult/harder spec. Its all based on opinions.
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85 Human Priest
11965
13/01/2012 11:28Posted by Cucianna
Suure, remove grace from the game. Make disc priests useless tank healers.

Y, I think you forgot the powerful PW: Shield and the ridiculously critting glyph. What's the reason to crit? I want my mastery to crit too. Let's make PW: Shield to crit too and DA. Grace is op - disc is not supposed to HEAL more than holy. It's supposed to prevent from taking dmg. So y I want my GH to heal more than disc's one. just to compare my bonus healing comes when the target is under or at 50% HP, so to prevent the tank's dead and to use the talent I have to know when to start casting GH so it can benefit and save the person. If you cast is on under 50% Hp target boss can hit it and leaves it more than low. Just to see as disc how easy is to save a person - shield, penance/FH. Shield absorb 30-35K(depends on mastery), so you have time to cast FH/GH/ penance and even throw PoM, so it's a lot more safier. 1 GS 2.5 min cd doesn't do the same. And if I use PW:Shield as holy I will kill my mana. FH is always better choise than PW: Shield as holy.


13/01/2012 11:28Posted by Cucianna
Are you referring to disc or holy here?

Holy.


13/01/2012 11:28Posted by Cucianna
During firelands I decided to try out the disc spec, guess what? I sucked, I was terribad because I haven't been playing it for years. But yes... as expected it went better through time. In my opinion I find disc more difficult to play then holy becuase I have been playing holy for such a long time, but I do bet a main specced disc priest would feel the same about holy. To sum it up, no... there is no such thing as a more difficult/harder spec. Its all based on opinions.

I had the same issue like you. You're right about the difficulty part, but when you haven't healed as priest you will find holy more difficult, because mana is like the main issue there.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15520
13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
i wouldn't call holy "passive" or has "nobrainer" spell.

And I havent said anything of the sorts ^^.
Disc doesn't even use PI for theirselves.

I use it on the best target - can be a dps or myself, it is not a rule ^^.

2. Holy is more difficult to play than disc. Some ppl say you'r just pohing. But you have to watch for things like this:
A)You're mana. Disc can play in pvp clothes to compare. Not that hard?

What are you actively doing for your mana as holy? Need to watch an internal cd, judge, keep watershield up, keep lifebloom up? Nope, you need to stack spirit and use your fiend properly - which is same as disc (the fiend part). Holy regen mechanic is weakest but its also easiest: your skill will not make you regen faster or better. Needing to stack a certain stat on gear doesn't really strike me as something related to skill: its just a limitation. Gear dependency=/=skill. I'm using the same gear for holy and disc, I cant afford 2 different sets, does that make me a more skillful priest because I play without the extra secondary stats that I'd get from reforging my spirit? Nope. If I have extra mana, I spend it. I have never been in a situation in which I don't have what to do with mana, and my overhealing is usually a lot lower than holy priests' one, so no, I don't waste it around because I can afford it.
B)your single target spells are weak. So you have to know what you have to use at the particular moment.

No matter what you choose, you will still not bring the utility of disc in terms of tank healing. You can assist, you can be extremely useful with GS, but that's about it. Changing chakras to help on tank is penalizing if aoe is happening at the same time, so nobody does it. Tbh, apart from spine, I haven't seen any occasion to switch chakras - which is prolly different in 10 mans, but I guess my pov is skewed by the fact that I only raid 25 mans. I would personally find holy a lot more interesting if chakra had a fairly small cd, even if it had its old duration back: right now, its pretty much a static self buff in most occasions. As disc, I can cast a shield on the tank, use penance/pom with bt up without consuming it to stack grace and have a high chance for inspiration too and poh the group with the bonus haste and bonus healing on the tank if there's aoe happening. For me, that feels a lot more satisfying than casting 2xflashheal on the tank and poh the group - because it makes me feel like I'm wasting mana on bad heals just to gain a buff.
C). Holy does have to predict the dmg more than disc due to lack of mana reg. So precasting is verry important.

Pre-casting in DS :). Right. It's not like 80% of the instance consists in "huddle up together and embrace the semi-constant aoe". May I ask when do you need to precast and it makes a difference?
Holy might be harder to play, I don't know, heard this dozens of times, most holy priests have some sort of martyr syndrome, I still say this question appears at very high levels of the game and I'm not qualified to judge those. I find it hilarious as a judgement from ppl that are miles away from the skill cap of either specc really, as on normal gameplay levels, none is harder than the other. However, whatever difficulty holy might have, its not in this patch: the pattern of the fights lead to poh/coh-pom on cd 80% of the time, while sitting comfy in sanctuary chakra. I'm not gonna say the fights make things harder for disc or any other healer tbh: we're all benefiting from it, druids the least prolly. Healing wise, from my pov, dragon soul is about brute-forcing your way via numbers, which is a boring concept. Ofc I cant talk about many hc modes, as my progress is a modest one, but that's what I can say so far, feel free to tell me different.

13/01/2012 10:50Posted by Dreffan
I haven't been offended more, even when called "nondiscipline"


Martyr syndrome. It was just a word, get over it. I'm being called "braindead specc" by holy priests every day, big deal. Most disc priests I know wouldn't even notice if they were called "non-holy". I surely wouldn't care.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15520
13/01/2012 11:51Posted by Dreffan
Y, I think you forgot the powerful PW: Shield and the ridiculously critting glyph. What's the reason to crit? I want my mastery to crit too. Let's make PW: Shield to crit too and DA. Grace is op - disc is not supposed to HEAL more than holy. It's supposed to prevent from taking dmg.

Erm..what crit glyph? o.o Are you talking about the 6-7k heal the shield glyph that can crit? I dont get the relation with mastery - where is my mastery critting? PWS is the only healing spell in game that does not crit tbh, making crit a stat absolutely useless for 30% of our healing. Sure that is balanced out by the aegis mechanic, but aegis itself cannot crit either, its the actual heal part that does. I'm pretty sure your mastery hot is bigger too when your normal heals crit.
So y I want my GH to heal more than disc's one. just to compare my bonus healing comes when the target is under or at 50% HP, so to prevent the tank's dead and to use the talent I have to know when to start casting GH so it can benefit and save the person. If you cast is on under 50% Hp target boss can hit it and leaves it more than low. Just to see as disc how easy is to save a person - shield, penance/FH. Shield absorb 30-35K(depends on mastery), so you have time to cast FH/GH/ penance and even throw PoM, so it's a lot more safier. 1 GS 2.5 min cd doesn't do the same. And if I use PW:Shield as holy I will kill my mana. FH is always better choise than PW: Shield as holy.

Well, who's asking you to be a tank healer as holy? You are weaker as a tank healer than a disc priest, but so is a disc priest weaker than you as a raid healer if you talk min-maxing. In the tank cds dept, you said yourself that GS is miles better than PS. The cost of shields is exactly the same as disc as it is as holy, so it wont drain your mana worse than it drains mine (sure I get a rapture proc every 12 seconds if I do it right, but I'm not passively regening 30% mana from spirit either). As for Gheal as disc with grace up hitting more than holy, did you take into consideration the free renew ticks too and the HW:serenity instant? Ofc flash will be better for you than shields, they give you serendipity, they give me nothing, I get my haste buff from shields, but unlike you, I'm limited by a debuff on them, you can go 2xflash+gheal with renew ticking and serenity weaving without any care if you are talking about output. Should I be offended that my renew is also a lot weaker than yours? You're gonna say renew doesnt benefit fully from mastery, I'll tell you neither do all my single targets crit, so those dont benefit either from mastery. I'm not gonna say the serendipity mechanic is better than grace, I personally hate having to use flash in any situation other than when somebody is dying with weakened soul on him and my penance on cd. Either way, back to the original topic, who is asking you to be a tank healer other than assisting in case of emergency when the tank will generally be under 50% anyway?

Tbh, Cucianna is right. You can be a terrible disc priest if you are not used to it just as easy as you can be a terrible holy one. I have no clue why the "passive" judgement I made on holy offended you, passive doesn't mean bad or easy or anything negative. It just means you have to know when to spend and when to conserve because you have little means to get back mana in an active way. There's skill involved in that too.

edit: To make it clear, I'm not claiming disc to be harder than holy. I like it because it makes more sense to me and it feels very efficient. I'm miles away from the skill cap of any of the speccs, so which one is harder bothers me not, I'm not at that point anyway.
Edited by Saphiramoon on 13/01/2012 12:42 GMT
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90 Goblin Priest
12015
Some very good posts from Saphiramoon.

From my own pov i used Holy exclusively from end of wrath (latecomer to priest healing) up until my guild reached firelands. I loved it, but mana was always a bit of an issue near the end of fights. The raid healing however was pretty supreme.

I switched to disc, which i had only really used during the odd bit of pvp.

What can i say. I have fallen in love with disc. It may not have as many tools (spells) as holy, but there are plenty of ways in which it can shine during raids. It can be a very effective raid healer but is a bit more suited, imho, to tank healing. If you run a lot of 5 mans i would suggest that disc is probably the easier to play there too.

Its a very subjective thing, which spec you like more. Initially holy was my go-to spec for everything. Once i got used to the playstyle of disc (the 2 really are vastly different) i realised that disc suited me a LOT more than holy. Also, you can cheat with disc and use pretty much your raid healing spec to pvp with too, without too many negatives (if you like that kind of thing).
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