Topic High Elves
You're right. The issue of badly played Blood Elf 'assassins' has yet to come up at all.
Sorry you feel that way, but the idea of a class is that they play differently to another class. Yours just seemed to be fairly similar to other classes.
As for the hostility, I've taken a lot of criticism here and most of it has been well-constructed and I am glad of it. Please remember that everything in here is exchanging opinions and whilst you're entitled to be angry, I'm entitled to think it's a bit much.
Meh. !@#$% will be ^-*!@, wherever they are. Whatever their eye colour. It's just how #$%^- roll.
Fair enough, I am not angry just taken back that I posted a simple dozen word idea on a new class that "I believe" would suit a playable high elf. It was posted as usual in good spirit and a hope that people would read it and add to it rather than say that it's a poor design idea. It would be hard to describe any new class in a dozen words, but my point is that I only USUALLY post positive comments on the forum. I feel it's always better to support someone, give positive feedback , be in general a decent person. Anonymity seems to give people a sense of entitlement that they may demean or troll in general any comment or person they feel like. Tbh when I read the belittling and generally pompous post you made I just had to comment on it. There is no need for petty comments and sly /cough snidey remarks, but YOU are correct in that it's your prerogative to demean if you want but I feel it's poor and people that do it are only to the detriment of the community .
Edited by Haalibel on 20/01/12 08:00 (GMT)
Not so. It is the nature of an idea that it will face opposition and the nature of a person that they will voice it. Thinking that we should only be positive and nice would have gotten the human race nowhere.
If you are unwilling to give criticism then fair enough, thai is your right. However if you are unwilling to accept it then you should refrain from speaking (or in this case typing) your ideas aloud because just as you have a right to voice your opinion, my right allows me to voice my own.
I treat every idea I hear at the value it is given to me in. If you say it in twelve words I will still compare it to those who roll out pages of detailed information. The idea of a 2 1-h user who jumps in and out of combat is essentially a rogue/monk.
I apologise for your ill-feelings but you presented a rather poor concept that I reworked into one that was less poorly thought out.
Feel free to think of me as a heartless wretch if you need to, but I am who I am.
Edit: We appear to have gone shockingly off topic again. Ah well, could be worse. Let's hope this is settled now and we can get back to the High Elves.
I never thought you a heartless wretch but merely over judgemental and now pedantic to boot , I am not raging or attempting to provoke anger but merely feel a bit dismayed at yet another , in my eyes form of trolling . But I do agree with you that this is off topic and therefore I will try and get this back on the rails.
I will reiterate that I would love to see Quel dorei In the game and I would probs race change my hunter to one or role a ranger if it was started as a new class . I for one am not a fan of the sin doreis position within the horde and tbh prefer the alliances stand point. It's all a matter of preference but those are mine.
A new city and horde town would be great.
The position of both the Forsaken and the Blood elves in the Horde is simply because the Alliance don't want them.
Now, I am perfectly fine with giving elves to the Horde, I actually think it's a good idea and, for the most part, it was played well and they fit in with their bloodthirsty nature and hatred, plus there's the fel-magic.
I liked that Blizz didn't go for the obvious. However, it's been a while and they've done very little with them. The RoZ would have been a great time to re-kindle those old hatreds to the Trolls but, alas, they didn't do much with it. This would give the Alliance the Elves and both the Blood Elves and Forsaken more lore.
Well as quick( not thought out ) idea how about a third faction with the Quel Dorei being the leaders of it?
Or even giving players of both a sides a choice to leave to a third faction, with the pandas changing the whole identify in BGs by silhouette idea gone, perhaps we could chose who we want to meke neutral. Perhaps an argent crusade based them? There are plenty of mixed faction groups out there so they are not theoretically against it, thoughts?
The game is built primarily around the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance. Every other conflict has added to the story but at it's roots, Warcraft: Orcs and Humans is the basis that Warcraft is still based upon to this day. Putting one player as the Alliance and one as the Horde and having them fight has evolved into putting hundreds as the Alliance against Hundreds as the Horde.
Adding a Neutral faction for players would undermine that.
Would they be allowed in both Orgrimmar and Stormwind?
How would they go into BGs if they are neutral?
What kind of loot would they wear if they were neutral, given that there is some loot only available to Alliance and some to Horde?
Though it would be nice for RP sakes to just destroy the now pointless language barrier, (given that there are so many neutral factions that can clearly speak both fluently and now we have the Pandaren for both sides probably being able to speak Pandaren to each other across factions... and if they can't... why the hell not?!) it is not necessary to create a Neutral faction and ultimately would only make the game agonizingly complicated for those writing it.
Plus, it is very well known that in the Argent Dawn, most Orcs aren't too fond of the Humans. They'll work together to reach a common goal, as they did in WCIII, but it doesn't mean they like each other all that much. I couldn't imagine there being enough Horde willing to live alongside Alliance to make an entire faction.
Also, Quel'Dorei are hideously racist. They despise the Trolls because of the Amani, the Orcs because of the First and Second wars, the Undead for the Third War, the Goblins too probably, given their actions in the Second War though maybe not so much given their lack of hostility over the past few decades (though with the Bilgewater Cartel joining the Horde, we might see their prejudice rise again.)
Essentially, the Quel'Dorei are sickened by the Blood Elves' acceptance of Fel Magics, the multitudinous hated races of the Horde and the hostility to the Alliance. Even if they and the Alliance parted ways after the Second War, they still prefer them to the Horde.
Most of the living Quel'Dorei are from Dalaran and still worked with the Alliance during the Third War, despite their people's closing of their forests.
Because of game mechanics. Currently, most Blood Elves would also speak Common as their second language instead of Orcish, for example.
Edited by Lyanea on 20/01/12 10:26 (GMT)
It is indeed a bit odd that Blood Elves were all of the sudden able to speak Orcish, I suppose they could possibly pull the same thing off for High Elves. Then again I'm more in favour the High Elves going to the Alliance and become playable instead of re-uniting with the Blood Elves.
Anyhow, if Blizzard wants to make it work, it will. Even if it makes not that much sense at the end of the day.
Edit: Woops I should wake up before responding, my excuses.
Aye, but back then it made sense. Back then the neutral factions weren't as prominent as they are now and having Blood Elves as the only ones who could talk to the opposing faction would have been silly. Now, all races will have people capable of speaking cross-faction.
I think it would be nice to have some kind of quest-line in the neutral factions for people to do that would allow you to learn the opposite faction's language.
At least it'll start to make sense there and they can still keep the language barrier up for all those who don't bother with the quests.
I agree with most of the comments and as stated above if blizz want something to work they will strong arm it into the game. Maybe it's just me but the whole two faction thing is really starting to feel old. Maybe now Is the time of change maybe going to three isnt the answer but what else do people propose if we did go there?
Why not a third neutral faction that could interact with both factions and group with either with BGs and instances. They could chose horde or alliance on each occasion but if they do pick one side more than another there rep changes them from neutral with both to friendly with one and hated with another therefore forcing them to play with both the horde and the alliance. This makes horde and alliance more of a mindset rather than an arbitrary thing.
Also why not a forth faction for all the forsaken who chose to stay loyal to Sylvanas and giving dks the option to join her force. This would be maybe the smallest faction out there but maybe the most hardcore "evil" and add alot of dark rp I believe some players are looking for.
This could be in turn countered by the Quel Dorei and any paladins that wish to join allowing them to be the counterpart to Sylvanas's forces. These two offsets would still remain part of the horde and alliance as far as BGs and instances but add something new to the game with there own instanced capital cities , undercity and Dalaran.
Just some ideas, any body care to tweak or add there own thoughts?
Edited by Haalibel on 20/01/12 11:22 (GMT)
Again, you're really overthinking the issue and assuming that Warcraft is something it is not.
Warcraft is about the war between the Alliance and the Horde and how it progresses. Outside factors change it or momentarily even stall it but the point is that that is the centre of the game.
Might as well change it to World of War-but-if-you-don't-want-to-be-in-a-War-you-don't-have-tocraft.
Yes, the Forsaken need to change how they operate or leave the Horde. I, myself, am rather compelled to see just how this will work. However, Sylvanas wouldn't just leave the Horde and set up her own faction because she'd be crushed within the month. Seriously. Plus, most Death Knights have made it their sworn duty to wipe all undead from the face of Azeroth. If any DKs joined her, they'd be shunned by the Ebon Blade.
So, in short, Sylvanas would be fighting:
The Argent Dawn.
The Ebon Blade.
The Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring that wish to return northern Lordaeron to it's former, lush, state.
The Remnants of the Scarlet Crusade.
Probably a lot of Magi from Dalaran too.
And again, a neutral faction makes little to no realistic sense when you view just how it would effect the game. Please understand that most Alliance races and most Horde races really hate each other with a firey passion. For whatever reason, they HATE each other. It just so happens that a few of them happen to hate the undead more than each-other, thus the Argent Dawn was born.
As for the Druids, they're druids. It's what they do.
I understand what your saying and it may all be logical , BUT you are employing human logic to a game where humans are only 1 of 12 races. To say this race would do this and one race would do this. As humans on this planet it's hard to get even 51% of people to agree on a common consensus so believing that all these fictional races would all have 100% the same beliefs and goals can easily be misleading.
For example there are alot of rl humans who enjoy playing as orcs, these are people who support large green marauding ALIENS from a distant planet who arrived on an earth like planet and starting murdering humans, their own species and people enjoy this. So to say that our own human concepts of this faction of aliens would do this and this species would do that is speculation based on someone at blizzards ideas and creations. I am basicly saying that they CAN and WILL do what they want and think will keep players engrossed and entertained. We will always be second guessing as far as lore and future concepts are concerned. So I believe they can and will implement and change any lore to suit, therefore pandas :)
Well, for starters, the pandas being a pretty damn good idea (and there's a whole forum for this discussion that I have no intention to stray into)
So let's get this long and arduous explanation over with a lot faster than it needs to be.
Your point is almost completely invalid in almost every sense of the word. Comparing our world to the World of Warcraft is like comparing a dumbass and a genius. They might look the same in some places but, frankly, they really... REALLY aren't.
We as humans live in a world where there are no races besides our own and there are now nearly 7,000,000,000 of us. This is split into continents and those are split into countries and those are split into smaller provinces/states/counties you get the idea. We are a people who are incredibly separated, and that is why we disagree a lot. We are raised very differently depending on class, country of origin and even the colour of our skin.
However, the ENTIRE world of Warcraft has less humans in it than there are in England, let alone Great Britain, let alone Europe and Let alone the world.
These people are all united by hatred, fear, monarchal loyalty and a sense of duty to their own race. They trust their King completely and if they speak out against him they are brandished as traitors and are killed in many inventive and nasty ways. They are close-minded, uneducated and ready to kill whomever their respective monarch doesn't particularly like. Because they're told to be.
They are also mostly united by one religion, which is the light. Those who aren't are labeled as heretics and are shunned and/or killed.
Forsaken: They are Humans. They are devoid of most/all of their emotions and see them as weaknesses. They are, however, not only cunning and devious, but also the proud possessors of common sense. Especially their leader, who is the most Devious of them all. They're only with the Horde to begin with to avoid being under attack from all sides. If they leave the Horde they will then be under attack from all sides.
So in addition to all of those things above, minus the ones that are lost with the Forsaken condition, they are now also devoid of caring for anyone or anything that is not Forsaken, but still loyal to their Monarch. Yes, they'd love to be able to stand against all those bastards who still have flesh on their elbows but they don't brag about it because they're patronising, fleshy lumps, but they can't.
Even the Draenei are pretty easy to understand how their minds work. I suggest you read the Lore behind all of these races, especially both the Humans and the Forsaken, and you'll see just what this means.