Topic
Warlocks selfhealing is abit OP?
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After seeing the warlock talent tree, i really set doubt to their ability to heal themself. Lets say you meet a lock/healer team in 2v2, there is no way you will ever get to kill the lock, this totally elliminates the ability to swap target... the lock can heal for about 90% of his max health on his own, and then i have not counted the 20% absorb shield. This is way to much im telling you... :P
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How do you know it`s too much? Paladin can heal for 100% of his HP with LoH, also have you seen the hunter self-heal?
The talent tree looks impressive i give you that but you only see what we get, not the things we lose. |
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I got to admit the heals seem a bit too much at the time being,although we still don't have much information about them and shouldn't try and compare mostly from what we have now.
Who knows,maybe they will have all this healing but they will drop like flies when those are on cooldown. We can only wait for now. |
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Exactly, we don't know yet how the rest pans out. If Warlocks have to Lifetap every 10s or so, then that healing will be much-needed.
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Edited by Loh on 23/01/12 10:34 (UTC)
How do you know it`s too much? Paladin can heal for 100% of his HP with LoH, also have you seen the hunter self-heal? -cough- 10(7) minute Cooldown. And no, all DPS classes have their own minor self heals. |
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But then you remember when Mages would get DoT'd and have a definate death inbound, so they gave them a decurse. The design goal for balancing in WoW is that; Scissors = Paper = Rock = Scissors, and not a Scissors > Paper > Rock > Scissors. |
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Scissors = Paper = Rock = Scissors, Which is an unfortunate side effect of us players preferring small-scale encounters over large-scale ones, think Arena and 10man BGs and such. In a smallscale encounter, RPS-balancing is usually not feasibly because you don't simple have 1 Scissor, 1 Rock and 1 Paper in a RPG, you have a whole lot of them. At the same time, not all can be in a fight, so you will forcibly have per-comp imbalance (we get that even now, despite them moving away from this type of balance, it's part of the reason 2v2 isn't actively being balanced anymore, it's just not feasible). In a large scale (think 100v100++) encounter, you are perfectly fine having people hard-counter other people. Everyone is well-represented on average, everyone can pick their targets and prevent others from picking their targets. In smallscale, that is impossible. |
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-cough- 10(7) minute Cooldown. Yeah it was just an example, thought the warlock one is over 20 sec, heals ~60% with a 3 min cd. Anyway i like the designed of the new talent tree and some abilities are really clever and have unique mechanic like Mannoroth's Fury for example, but for efficiency, like raw numbers it`s not that great. Atm as affliction i have: - Haunt which deals damage and heals me for the damage dealt after/ever 8 seconds - Siphon Life with a 50% chance to heal for 2% HP every time corruption ticks - Fel Armor which heals for 6% of all damage dealt In MoP we lose ALL these heals and we get to choose between an AoE Drain Life, which in your 2v2 example wouldn't be that great, Soul Leech which heals for 15% of damage dealt with our fillers (which is lower than the 3 abilities we lose, i'd buff this to 20%) and this concentrated heal Dark Regeneration which has a 3 min cd but also increases healing taken by 25% which is a compensation for the Demon armor nerf from 30% to 10%. The second tier is about CC and one in particular has a nice heal aswell, but atm we have Death Coil which also deals damage and heals us for 300% of damage dealt with a 1.5m cd in PVP. Ofc the healing from Mortal Coil is greater than our current BUT atm as affliction i have BOTH death coil and Howl of Terror, in MoP i have to choose one of them. The 3rd tier has Soul Link which is a base ability all warlocks have atm, reduces 25% of damge and in MoP we have the option, not many would, to trade it for a bubble or a spell absorb. In 4th tier we have that famous shield which atm we have with Voidwalker out, ofc far less efficient, but imo we're gonna need it because we lose Shadowflame, a 70% snare which we relied on to kite melee. Without this snare we need a defense to compensate. Dark Bargain seems the best choice, Burning rush seems the weakest, personally i'd add that the DK death's advance effect to it aswell and Blood Fear seems far too punishing. That`s about self-healing and defenses, the other tiers offer some DPS increase and neat tricks. |
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Edited by Gannet on 23/01/12 11:55 (UTC)
If you care so much about arenas why aren't you making a post complaining that warlocks are pretty useless in 2v2 now? Double standard much? i bet that if they would give DKs a 90% heal and 20% absorb shield you wouldn't complain, saying it will be OP. PVP isn't balanced around what YOU do. |
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I think these kind of considerations should be of any help only if the whole class/talent sistem is.
More, many of these things need to be tested ingame, expacially considering numbers are very far from being final, now as now it is more about machanics. |
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Because few, and least of all the devs, still actively try to balance 2v2. It cannot be done. It's a format which is and will always be largely dependent on comp. Some like the strong Rock/Paper/Scissors feel that emulated, some hate it. Independent of which you think personally, it cannot be "balanced". |
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Edited by Avatyr on 23/01/12 12:32 (UTC)
Well nothing is sertain yet, anything with the new talent tree can change and as I can see it, its level 15 that are healing abilitys, but you can only select one of them, so I dont think there self healing will be so OP.
And if it will be OP, then it will 100% will be nerfed. :) |
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I think at this point either of you has to post either empirical, or analytical evidence. We're not getting much further with him saying he "thinks" Warlocks are underpowered, you posting a link to a single Warlock who does well, and neither of you tackling the issue that 2v2 balance isn't about classes, but about comps. |
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Edited by Gannet on 23/01/12 13:06 (UTC)
Look at what? there is a warlock in the only viable 2v2 setup (with r shaman) who had the nerves to go through a bunch of 45 min fights.
This doesn't prove anything. |
