DKs and the Squishiness (The Constructive Version)

85 Human Death Knight
6045
Now we all know that DK's (doesn't matter if frost or unholy) are too strong against casters, and too weak against melee. We have only about 2 cool downs which we're supposed to use for defense against melees:

1) Icebound Fortitude (which has a 3 minute cool down. It really doesn't help me with anything. Like say that you're playing a warrior and a rogue, okay, you used IF at the burst, but what will happen after 2 minutes? They will burst you down, again, in few seconds. Blizzard should decrease the cool down of Icebound Fortitude by 90 seconds, which will make the new IF CD 1 minute and 30 seconds.

2) Lichborne. Now against melee, which means without AMS (which gives you nearly infinite RP if there's a caster on you and if you're unholy), you can throw a maximum of 5 death coils to yourself, which is a squishy heal. Well tbh, Lichborne is good the way it is, doesn't need a change if Icebound Fortitude gets a buff.


And now, against casters:


1 and 2) Lichborne and Icebound Fortitude

3) AMS. This thing is really stupidly OP against casters. 7 seconds of immunity is retarded IMO tbh. Blizzard should change the glyph of AMS (which gives 2 seconds extra immunity) to a thing which also gives 30% physical damage reduce, and also gives RP production when hit by physical damage.

So basically:

Frost AMS without glyph: Gives 5 second immunity against spell damage.

Frost AMS with glyph: Gives 5 second immunity against spell damage, 30% damage reduction against physical damage, and also runic power regeneration when struck by physical damage.

Unholy AMS without glyph: Gives 5 second immunity against spell damage, also regenerates RP when struck by spell damage

Unholy AMS with glyph: Gives 5 second immunity against spell damage, 30% reduction against physical damage and also Runic Power regeneration when struck by either physical or spell damage.

AMZ: Doesn't need a change.


This will reduce our survivability against casters, and increase it against melees. Feel free to troll, flame or give constructive feedback.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0
Remove the fact that you get runic power from melee attacks in that glyph and it sounds fine.


By the way.....You can hear the name of the cd called Anti MAGIC shell. Not anti Physical/Magic shell. So it wouldn't make any sense at all if they did that. It's like Paladins use turn evil which FEAR undeads..That doesn't make any sense either.

2 Minutes cd on IF is better. And also, AMS doesn't give 7 seconds duration, it's 6 seconds when it's glyphed.
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MVP
85 Night Elf Rogue
9420
(The Constructive Version)


Ugh....... The aim of that sentence was to make it a series, not for anyone to steal just for the sake of getting some extra attention. This one is not part of the series.

04/02/2012 17:25Posted by Highponto
Now we all know that DK's (doesn't matter if frost or unholy) are too strong against casters, and too weak against melee. We have only about 2 cool downs which we're supposed to use for defense against melees:


Why would you want to change this? Are DKs not supposed to be strong against casters and weaker against melee? Classes have specific traits, and I'd say this is one which fits DKs perfectly.

Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.
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1 Tauren Warrior
0
If I read "the constructive version" once more I'll shoot myself.

04/02/2012 17:36Posted by Dalrian
The aim of that sentence was to make it a series, not for anyone to steal just for the sake of getting some extra attention.


Go figure!


As for the suggestion, I'd be ok with the cooldown reduction for IBF if it also reduced the duration. It's too strong of an ability as it is now (currently too many eggs in the same basket)
Edited by Lthcairne on 04/02/2012 17:39 GMT
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0
04/02/2012 17:36Posted by Dalrian
Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.


Wait what? You say ferals have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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85 Human Rogue
1750
04/02/2012 17:38Posted by Gamegon
Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.


Wait what? You say ferals have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


squishy cat
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1 Tauren Druid
0

Wait what? You say ferals have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


You throw a ball of yarn when they switch to cat form and nukelolburst sick damage while they play with it, they can't switch to immortal form because of all the excitement they get from playing with the ball

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90 Human Death Knight
13415
04/02/2012 17:38Posted by Gamegon
Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.


Wait what? You say ferals have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Wait what? You say mages have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0

Wait what? You say ferals have weaknesses!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


You throw a ball of yarn when they switch to cat form and nukelolburst sick damage while they play with it, they can't switch to immortal form because of all the excitement they get from playing with the ball


You are right....But It always switch to the #%%!%#*@ bear and it looks so cute!
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85 Human Death Knight
6045
04/02/2012 17:36Posted by Dalrian
Why would you want to change this? Are DKs not supposed to be strong against casters and weaker against melee? Classes have specific traits, and I'd say this is one which fits DKs perfectly.


I understand the fact that classes should have specific traits, but the thing is, we are TOO strong against casters and TOO squishy against melee. This change will not change the way that we're stronger against casters than we're against melee, this will just give us a slight buff against melee and a slight nerf against casters.



04/02/2012 17:33Posted by Gamegon
By the way.....You can hear the name of the cd called Anti MAGIC shell. Not anti Physical/Magic shell. So it wouldn't make any sense at all if they did that. It's like Paladins use turn evil which FEAR undeads..That doesn't make any sense either.


I think that you're right. About 5 years of WoW and I've never seen a spell's name being changed. Then maybe, AMS glyph can be removed from the game, and there can be a Lichborne glyph which gives Lichborne an ability which gives damage reduction against melee.
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90 Human Death Knight
0
Do you even read the tooltips on your own abilities? AMS is immunity to spells? Right.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48707/anti-magic-shell
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Am i wrong but cant UH dk's kite like craaazy? But yeah. frost/Uh dk's is quite squishy. But giving em spell like disarm is quite absurd,as dk's already have all sort of cool tricks
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0
04/02/2012 17:51Posted by Martti
Am i wrong but cant UH dk's kite like craaazy? But yeah. frost/Uh dk's is quite squishy. But giving em spell like disarm is quite absurd,as dk's already have all sort of cool tricks


Wait what? Dks have weaknesses!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
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85 Human Paladin
12650
Why would you want to change this? Are DKs not supposed to be strong against casters and weaker against melee? Classes have specific traits, and I'd say this is one which fits DKs perfectly.

Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.


If you're saying that we're going to get imbalances like this one, right now ALL plate DPS are currently the weakest specs, DKS / Warriors / Paladins all have under 9% representation at 2400+

In S10 DKs were solid as they could play, Shadowcleave for example wich is known to softcounter most castercleaves.

Right now DKs are pretty much unplayable in highrated arenas as they're so squishy, RMPS, RLS all wreck them, is that ok? I haven't faced a single DK since 2200 wich was a TSG.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0
Why would you want to change this? Are DKs not supposed to be strong against casters and weaker against melee? Classes have specific traits, and I'd say this is one which fits DKs perfectly.

Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.


If you're saying that we're going to get imbalances like this one, right now ALL plate DPS are currently the weakest specs, DKS / Warriors / Paladins all have under 9% representation at 2400+

In S10 DKs were solid as they could play, Shadowcleave for example wich is known to softcounter most castercleaves.

Right now DKs are pretty much unplayable in highrated arenas as they're so squishy, RMPS, RLS all wreck them, is that ok? I haven't faced a single DK since 2200 wich was a TSG.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

You speak for the plate wearers :((
Edited by Gamegon on 04/02/2012 18:00 GMT
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Why would you want to change this? Are DKs not supposed to be strong against casters and weaker against melee? Classes have specific traits, and I'd say this is one which fits DKs perfectly.

Having a strength and a weakness is not a bad thing if you ask me. Sure, having different classes with different traits may make the game less balanced, but it also makes it a lot less boring.

while i agree on this.. i feel that dk's are to weak against melee's, if you face a cleave you can literally just leave, as you got a snowballs chance in hell to survive.

they should be abit weak versus melee, and strong versus casters.. but currently it's just to much
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85 Human Death Knight
6045
while i agree on this.. i feel that dk's are to weak against melee's, if you face a cleave you can literally just leave, as you got a snowballs chance in hell to survive.

they should be abit weak versus melee, and strong versus casters.. but currently it's just to much



That's my point.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10465
Most classes deal way too much dmg currently, and DKs, being melee glass cannons so to speak, just can't compete.
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- Revert death strike glyph and add 6 sec cd on it.
or
- While blood presence is active increase avoidance by 15% and healing received by 10%
or
- Give access to Bone shield and Vampiric blood.
Edited by Асмеро on 04/02/2012 21:56 GMT
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90 Night Elf Priest
8630
What? Horrible suggestions, you want spell immunity+physical reduction all in the same CD on a 45sec CD? You already have the best shortest caster defensive CD possible, no way.

The only thing DKs would be fine with is this:
- Bone Shield given to them.
- AMS CD increased to 1 minute and the glyph removed, or just make the glyph clear your current snares (it's annoying to AMS just a 0.1 second after a Mage lands a nova).

That's about all the DKs need.
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