Topic
Infinite Dragonflight - What did they hope to achieve?
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Edited by Quintus on 14/02/12 00:54 (UTC)
I'm really unclear of the motives of the Infinite Dragonlight. They are consdiered bad guys, at probably rightly so, however in some of the dungeons they're involved in, they seem to be taking a course of action which can be seen to have good motives.
Escape from Durnholde - In Escape from Durnholde they seem to be attempting to prevent Thrall from escaping. The obvious plus to this is if he never escaped the Horde would never have been created, sparing the lives of all the millions who lost their life in the conflict between Alliance and Horde. However on the flip side of this, if Thrall never escaped and never made it to Kalimdor to provide aid against the Burning Legion at Hyjal, Nordrassil may have been destroyed by Archimode. The Opening of the Dark portal - They attempted to stop Medivh from opening the Dark portal, which would have spared Azeroth all the destruction that the Burning Legion would have rought on Azeroth and it's inhabitants. I personally can't see a down side to not letting this event happen. The Culling of Stratholme - They appear here to stop Arthas and kill him before he has a chance to become the Lich King which would spare the untold horrors and suffering of many. This potentially could have also prevented the fall of Lordaeron. Again I'm a bit hard pressed to find any negatives to killing him, but I am sure someone can. In these three instances, you can, depending on your point of view see that their motives seem to be for the greater good? I'm confused as well why we have to go back and stop them? I thought there were loads of different time lines (unless I'm thinking of Doctor Who lol). If there are different time lines, does that means the same events happened in each time line, or is it possible that things did not happen the same in these other time lines, for example the End Time dungeon is a time line in which Deathwing was not defeated. Does that mean in other time lines, things like the openeing of the dark portal did not occur? |
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They dont got a motive. In End Time you see that the leader of Infinite Dragonflight is Moruzond = Nozdormu in corrupted/insane form.
And since Nozdormu is corrupted and insane he dont got a motive for anything. What he tries to do is the exact oposite of what his former self was: To preserve the timeline. Basically he is just trying to screw time over as much as possible. |
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The Opening of the Dark portal - They attempted to stop Medivh from opening the Dark portal, which would have spared Azeroth all the destruction that the Burning Legion would have rought on Azeroth and it's inhabitants. I personally can't see a down side to not letting this event happen. There is a downside in lore. If Medivh didn't open the Dark Portal, the races of the Alliance would have turned on eachother in a civil war. When the demons came to Azeroth, the forces would have been too weak to fight back, and this means more deaths than previous and current wars combined. It is a "lesser of two evils" thing. It would also mean that the horde isn't there to support the Alliance in Hyjal. The Culling of Stratholme - They appear here to stop Arthas and kill him before he has a chance to become the Lich King which would spare the untold horrors and suffering of many. This potentially could have also prevented the fall of Lordaeron. Again I'm a bit hard pressed to find any negatives to killing him, but I am sure someone can. If Arthas was killed, the Burning Legion and Scourge would still have been united and, without somebody that would strike them at their core in Northrend, the demons and undead would wash over the world from Northrend and destroy all life. Again, a "lesser of two evils" thing. |
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I'm sure that the Infinite Dragonflight page on WoWpedia will offer you far more detailed and accurate description about their motivations etc than you will find here without asking for a wall of text.
It is my understanding, that in some timeline, which, I believe, can no longer possibly be 'ours', Nozdormu became obsessed with the idea of his own expiration date, which he was damned to know (down to the exact moment of his death), and his duties stopping him from altering events in time to maintain order. Eventually the duty of passive keeper of the time-streams became an impossible duty for him to fulfill and he was driven to try and change the fate of the universe by altering key events through Azeroth's history. He likely rallied other loyal dragons who also wished to try and change the destined timeline and formed the order. Technically, what they were trying to do was noble, like halting the orcish invasion and preventing the deaths of countless citizens in Stratholme and the eventual rise of the Lich King through Arthas' actions there, but according to the more dutiful Bronze dragons, they were wrong for trying to do this. Perhaps because the more rational, impartial and clear-headed timekeepers could see that attempting to alter anything about the timeline could have potentially catastrophic effects down the line, they recruited us, the heroes and adventurers to stop them. As I stated earlier, go to WoWpedia for a more thorough explanation. =P |
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Enur, these events can have a big impact on his fate. He was to die by mortal hands, but if the Infinite succeeded in any of these events, all mortals would have perished and so when Nozdormu becomes Murozond, nobody will be around to kill him. He tried to disrupt those events in the hopes he can ward off his own demise.
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It's all kind of timey wimey
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To a large degree, I think the whole idea with the Caverns of Time is just fueled by gameplay motives. The reason why players assist Medivh in opening the Dark Portal, and help Thrall escape Durnholde, and escort Arthas through Stratholme, is because it's awesome. The Caverns of Time simply allow Blizzard to showcase some of the biggest lore moments prior to WoW. And that's just a big boon, because players who didn't know who Arthas was when WotLK came out, they would not have felt so strongly for the character if it wasn't because of the Caverns of Time: The Culling of Stratholme instance. I don't think one should try to find a particular reason beyond that as to why we go to those specific places. There isn't a red thread to be found, besides the fact that those lore moments make up for some great dungeon experiences :P As far as the Infinite Dragonflight goes, it's a bit the same. There has to be a reason to go to those Caverns of Time instances, and the idea of an enemy that is trying to prevent the future from happening is pretty ideal, because it ties nicely in with the Caverns of Time and the Bronze Dragonflight. The whole plot leading up to the Hour of Twilight and ultimately revolving around Deathwing....I think that was a bit tacked on. I mean, with Cataclysm revolving around the dragon aspects so much, Blizzard sort of needed Nozdormu to come out of hiding and get his timeways sorted. So that's likely why it all ties in with the Hour of Twilight. It just seems difficult to imagine how Blizzard would have kept the Infinite Dragonflight plot going, given that Nozdormu had to be around for the Deathwing confrontation, and lose his powers and all that.
I think it works in the way that there are different timelines where different things can happen. But there are also times where only a specific thing can happen. Nozdormu sort of says it nicely at the end of the Dragon Soul (if you get him for the final words): "It is time! I will expend EVERYTHING to bind every thread here, now, around the Dragon Soul. What comes to pass will never be undone!" So different threads for different timelines where different things can happen. But sometimes those threads are weaved together and thus only one timeline exists, where only one thing can happen. |
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Edited by Solariana on 13/02/12 19:26 (UTC)
"Murozond yells: You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul... What I... have... seen..."
That sentence has been bothering me ever since i set foot in The End Time, Could it be possible for Nozdormu to have seen something bad involving the Titans mainly "Aman'Thul". Maybe what ever happened with Aman'Thul is so bad that Nozdormu believed the only way to save Azeroth (or maybe even the universe) was to change certain events in time. |
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Edited by Blayzereborn on 13/02/12 19:50 (UTC)
Time travel in the Warcraft franchise is annoyingly inconsistent.
We have alternate "What if" timelines, overwriting the current one (The North Wind), predestination (Mysteries of the Infinite and Mysteries of the Infinite, Redux), bronze dragons altering history for personal reasons (Darrowshire), either Ripple Effect Proof Memory or entering a new timeline entirely (Hakkar the Houndmaster) and making certain events utterly impossible to change (Dragon Soul, presumably meaning even if you go back in time along the current timeline and kill Thrall, he'll still exist to destroy Deathwing). There are no rules beyond what Blizzard consider best for the story they're trying to tell at that moment. I wish they'd iron out the rules and actually stick to them. |
"Murozond yells: You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul... What I... have... seen..." I read that sentence as Murozond crying out for Aman'thul's help, pity, mercy, forgiveness... something. Not as Murozond stating that Aman'thul is going to do something terrible in the future. Regardless, it would seem that the Old Gods convinced Murozond to try and bind the future to that version of the Hour of Twilight by showing him something far, far worse (which he calls the "True End Time". |
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The actions of the Infinite Dragonflight can be attributed to the future that Nozdormu saw for the World. A Future that would be far worse than what was envisioned in End Time.
I think Murozond saw that he would become a mortal, and that because the Aspects gave up their power to defeat Deathwing, the next new enemy would be so powerful that they wouldn't be able to defeat it, and the True End Time would then occur which would be far worse than what would have happened if they hadn't defeated Deathwing. Although what would be far worse than destroying the World through the Cataclysm is kind of puzzling. There seems to be some kind of inconsistency here. Why would the Old Gods aid Deathwing so that he could destroy the world? Or was Deathwing's aim simply to subjugate the World entirely and rule it? Or was it that destruction of the World would actually free the Old Gods and they would be able to go on to other Worlds then? |
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Edited by Nisvarin on 14/02/12 18:03 (UTC)
To me the Infinite Dragonflight's motives were logical untill the End Time dungeon.
Escape from Durnholde: No Thrall? No Horde. Alliance has no conflict. Opening of the Dark Portal: Again. No Horde if Medivh dies. Culling of Stratholme: Arthas dies. No new Lich King. No new rise of the Scourge. Mount Hyjal: Sending in troops from the future to aid in the battle versus Archimonde to ensure the World Tree would survive. So, what I thought was that the Infinite Dragonflight by bending the laws of time was trying to create or ensure the best future. Buuut... apparently now that idea is stupid because... Nozdormu... just.. got corrupted somehow and then he... blocked the timeline to the Well of Eternity... for some reason... to have Nozdormu come over to him and kill him (even though he could've just escaped to a different timeline.....) because Nozdormu saw himself die at some point..... but eventually he just killed himself, so if he wanted to prevent himself dieing he should in the future not have been so dumb to stand in the way of himself in the past..... I really like my explanation more. |
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Oh and... If he didn't want to die he shouldn't have somehow blocked off the Well of Eternity timeline to lure his past self to him so that his past self would kill him. |
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Let's face it, time travel in any franchise needs to be one of the central themes of the story, otherwise things just get disappointing--like when Nozdormu handwaved away the question of what happened to the Dragon Soul by saying that with his powers gone, it returned to its proper time.
That could have been an awesome lead-in to so much content--especially since Metzen said "See how it plays out" at BlizzCon to a guy asking about that specifically--and it was wasted on a hasty handwave. |
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Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn...
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Edited by Bustinjieber on 16/02/12 23:33 (UTC)
To me the Infinite Dragonflight's motives were logical untill the End Time dungeon. well if we didnt help illidan and later tyrande and malfurion it might not have blown up the well of eternity. because the explosion might have been caused by us speeding up the fight against the demons and azhara edit: no big boom = no horde and maybe not even some of the races that already were on azeroth. just a giant empire of nature loving elves |
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Edited by Archaos on 17/02/12 00:55 (UTC)
It's all to benefit the Old Gods. Muruzond was working to ensure the Hour of Twilight happened.
If Thrall never escaped Durnholde he would not have been a threat to Deathwing. If the Portal never opened then again, Thrall would not become a threat. Also the world would have had nothing to unite it and would be easier to conquer for the Old Gods. No idea about Hyjal, but I suppose if the legion won it would have been just as bad for the Old Gods. Arthas dead means the Lich King would have been killed and the Scourge destroyed which means less trouble and one less enemy for the old gods. Possibly may have even prevented Archimonde's invasion. |
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Okay, was playing through Culling of Stratholme today, great instance, and I got up to the third boss, Chrono-Lord Epoch and he says:
"Prince Arthas Menethil, on this day, a powerful darkness has taken hold of your soul. The death you are destined to visit upon others will this day be your own!" Despite the fact there are claims of Old God manipulation, this in itself seems to suggest that the Infinite dragonflight strive for the greater good. |
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Edited by Korae on 20/02/12 18:14 (UTC)
It's Warcraft. Therefore, it's all about Thrall.
If Thrall hadn't escaped Durnholde, Thrall would have never been Teh Awesome. Metzen would have been sad. If the horde had not come to Azeroth, Thrall would not have been Teh Awesome. Metzen would have been sad. If no one had fought with Thrall at Hyjal, Thrall would have died. Metzen would have been sad. If Arthas had been killed, the Strathholme undead would have killed everyone in Lordearon. Including Thrall. Metzen would have been Sad. If We had not got the dragon soul from the past, Thrall could not be the SUPAH WORLDSHAMAN! Metzen would have been Sad. So, yes. The Infinites do strive for the greater good. They, like the first boss in Hour of Twilight, recognise the burden that has been placed on the timelines by this ridiculous orcine perversion, and wish his removal. |
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The Infinite Dragonflight had a lot of potential. I recall fond memories of pondering their motives back during TBC. Alas, like many others aspects of the lore they have been turned into a bitter disappointment.
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