Topic
Struggling to compete with DK threat
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Sorry if there is already a thread about this, i have tried the search, but nothing came up that anwsered my question, so here goes.
Ever since 4.3 i've always struggled to push out enough threat to compete with the other tank in our 10man group a blood dk. He seems to pull alot more dps and threat without trying over my warrior. I feel I have my rotation down and nothing I try can compete. Even when he was far lower geared. Any suggestions? Should I try and add more hit and sacrifice mitigation? Also on a side note, I don't quite understand how the block cap works yet. I am capped once my block chance + dodge + parry = 102.4% yes? Where does critical block fit in? |
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Edited by Sunderus on 09/02/12 17:05 (GMT)
Basically yes, the 102.4% cap means you will either dodge, parry or block an incoming attack. When you reach this magic number, you should try and obtain more dodge and parry because it effectively pushes block off the table. Remember to keep parry a little higher due to your Hold the Line talent.
Critical block is a chance to block double the value which you would normally block (I think) For instance: Normal Block = 10k Block from 30k hit Critical Block = 20k Block from 30k hit As for the first part of your post, I cant ascertain what you are doing wrong unless you have a World of Logs post for a typical raid scenario. |
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Edited by Jolu on 09/02/12 17:08 (GMT)
Critical block is on a separate roll from the combat table for CTC and doesn't affect the 'block cap'. Say you had 50% block and 50% critical block, if you blocked the attack you would then have another roll where there's a 50% chance of a normal block, and a 50% chance of a critical one. |
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I could understand your problems with the other tank, if they were in LFR, where people rarely communicate... But in a guild run?
If you are struggling to hold aggro off the other tank, simply tell him to stop his attacks. He is not getting hit, so there is no need for him to keep attacking. Try simply telling him to stop attacking for 5-10sec and /dance instead. |
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That's a questionable DK in my opinion. Asking him to stop attacking in a tank switch fight isn't really an option, as he should be stacking his Bloodshield when not tanking, but he only has to DS every 9 seconds to stop his stack dropping off.
Ask him to only DS to maintain shield instead of spam attacking (as is implied), he should really have his eye on Omen anyway as it is possible for him to over-aggro just after a switch if you avoid the first 2 or 3 boss attacks (as you don't gain the initial 30% Vengeance boost until you're actually hit). |
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As a warrior, you can always taunt off him and then intervene him to reduce his threat by 10% (i think that's it) or as a pally there's always Hand of Salv, but thats on a 2min CD if i remember rightly. If he's tanking first, he really should slow his DPS (not stop) until you have some vengance stacks up or he'll just rip it right back off you. After he taunts back there should be no issue as you should have vigi on him which will help keep your vengance stacks high.
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Edited by Habbitz on 11/02/12 12:09 (GMT)
Make your response "Be a better tank and watch your threat." If he is constantly over-aggroing it might just be that he is going all out on his DPS and isn't competent enough to watch his own threat with something like Omen3.
All I can think of off the top of my head is make sure you are the one that tanks the bosses first so that your vengeance stacks quicker. |
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i tank with a warrior and sometimes run into this problem, if we both have full vengeance its not that hard to overaggro him, blood dk's need to watch their threat a little bit when dealing with other tanks. (i once overaggroed on warmaster and got a massive smack in the face which destroyed me because i had 3x sunder stacks already) you could always ask him to cancel his vengeance buff just as you taunt, nerfs his dps a bit but it will build back up quickly and its better than stopping damage.
and in a progression fight if there was a problem with tank threat, and the other tank said get more expertise and hit we would get rid of them faster than you can say bad tank. its obvious from responses like that they dont appreciate the problems or priorities of other classes. |
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He's a bad tank.
It looks like hes more interested in pulling the dps numbers than backing off slightly in order for you to gain threat. |
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Edited by Bashed on 15/02/12 05:33 (GMT)
He's a bad tank.It looks like hes more interested in pulling the dps numbers than backing off slightly in order for you to gain threat. No, I'd have to take the Dk's side on this one. If you're raiding 10 man the tanks DPS is very important. The threat problems described here will not be fixed by a 'slight time of not attacking'. If you have a paladin in your group he can use Salvation on the Dk or like stated a little above, you can just start tanking by the 'Threat by Taunt' method, shouldn't be a problem with Vigilance. It just means you'll have to do a lot more to keep up with him. |
How do you expect a tank with low stack of vengeance to compete with a tank with a full stack after a taunt switch? All tanks must slack a little when the other tank taunts. Yes dps is important, in 10 man and 25 man, but its more important to tank correct, and not stress healers more then necessery. A tankt that keeps pushing his/or her threat and dps after the other tank taunts, is bad. Simply put. All it takes is a few seconds to let the other tank get his/or her vengeance up and the first tank to drop his... or her. |
And this is sorta correct and a little wrong at the same time. Yes you should go for dodge/parry after full CTC. But its better to go stamina. Dont forget DS has lots of magic dmg that warriors struggle a little with, and alsoe alot of unavoidable dmg. |
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How do you expect a tank with low stack of vengeance to compete with a tank with a full stack after a taunt switch?All tanks must slack a little when the other tank taunts. Okay, I'll agree on the vengeance thing. However, I still think that OP's problem can be reduced by variable things listed above tho. I've had it happen myself with a druid and a warrior tank in my previous guild. It's very annoying because you just feel limited in your actions, that's why I'm picking side for the Dk. OP's gear is good, so I don't think you can put it off as a gear difference. I might not have a real solution for you, but I'd try some of the things such as Intervene and Hand of Salvation! |
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just pop vigilance on him :L show him whos boss :)
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Hmm... Perhaps you should give up your Thunderstruck talent and maximize Shield Specialization. It will give you enough rage while you're tanking allowing you to spam heroic strike constantly during inner rage without ever being out of rage and it will be fairly more difficult for a blood DK to out aggro you than.
Also, as some people suggested already, pop vigilance and just taunt off each time eventually you will get aggro. |
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Hit and Exp its good 4 tanking especialy in 10 man grps. try 2 get that and u will se a rise of your dps witch means a rise in your threat. I tank beside a DK but i never had problems with my agro or his agro.U realy need 2 talk with him if u stil have problems after u get hit and exp.
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Easiest thing is to use Vigi on him so you atleast have some vengeance on the switch. It wont be much. On a switch you could try and time it so you can use a Recklessness + Shield Block + Shield Slam (but that will only be on fights without a lot of aoe damage soaking).
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i tank with a warrior and sometimes run into this problem, if we both have full vengeance its not that hard to overaggro him, blood dk's need to watch their threat a little bit when dealing with other tanks. (i once overaggroed on warmaster and got a massive smack in the face which destroyed me because i had 3x sunder stacks already) you could always ask him to cancel his vengeance buff just as you taunt, nerfs his dps a bit but it will build back up quickly and its better than stopping damage. |
