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Hey peeps,

got obliterated in a ydays duel vs an unholy DK from my server (he had 90% HP in the end).

Now, I know I played wrong (popped only AW for late heal, but it was already too late ... hello necro strike), but, I'm here to ask, in 10 duels, who would win more, an UHDk or a Ret?

Thank you.

Ret should win. Higher self heals,they both do more or less the same single-target damage.

ret, in its current state.

You both are wrong, unholy should definitely win because of the massive self healing and absorb healing and kiting.

rets with turn evil glyph for sure

Dks never lose. We only sometimes fake it so the other classes dont get whiny. ;D

Seriously though, I think it would really depend on the players and on their knowledge of their class. Both specs have the potential to win, it wouldnt be a one sided fight.

I find Udk's pretty hard to 1v1 on my Ret.

If the Udk starts to get the upper hand it's so hard to come back from in my experience, the sort of momentum they can gain is mad :/

But it's a good fight none the less but Ret RNG plays a large role in the outcome (proc started rets are a joke)

30/07/2012 00:30Posted by Feathor

You both are wrong, unholy should definitely win because of the massive self healing and absorb healing and kiting.

lol

Ret should win, DKs get absolutely destroyed by melee, you can take craploads of damage through AMS, they can fear your main sources of damage, necro is a bit of a !@#$ to heal through but the option to bubble and WoG is always there, once the DK falls behind (this WILL happen if you're doing enough damage) there's usually no coming back as they rely heavily on momentum to play

Bubble before WoGing yourself

Retri, obviously. Hammer of Justice, repentance= there goes trinket & Lichborne (if you have it),
Hammer of wrath hits like bomb in the end. Basicly, you cant have time for anything else than Necrotic strike to prevent healings, when retri puts stack of censure, Exorcism hits like bomb as well against undead's.

A retribution will never on normal circumstances.
However Unholy can win if we can blow our cds faster than the ret, and copy bubble

Else Ret Any day.

You both are wrong, unholy should definitely win because of the massive self healing and absorb healing and kiting.

lol

Ret should win, DKs get absolutely destroyed by melee, you can take craploads of damage through AMS, they can fear your main sources of damage, necro is a bit of a !@#$ to heal through but the option to bubble and WoG is always there, once the DK falls behind (this WILL happen if you're doing enough damage) there's usually no coming back as they rely heavily on momentum to play

Uhm no. The only melee classes that a DK will lose almost 100% against are Ferals and Rogues with BiS gear. You can win against a Ret, don't spread misinformation. The strategy goes around making him wasting time while keeping the pressure, so hoping in no Divine Purpose procs, he will take much more than 14 sec to get 3 Holy Powers. Kiting is the key and you start the fight with a decent distance from him. Unholy Frenzy almost immediatly to prevent Repetance and I usually use Dark Sim after he popped his Freedom, so I can copy another spell. Gargoyle at 60rp. IBF the stun. Save the trinket for another stun or Repentance if he still has it. Pop AMS + Lichborne at low hp to basically get another full hp bar and most of times I'm in melee range at that point to soak runic power. I use AMZ/Death Pact at last, which is basically when he used all of his cds and I'm in melee range to finish him off. If you can use Death Pact when the pet is feared, it's another advantage to you. Spam NS pretty much the all fight, but some SS are good if you want to force the bubble or destroy Sacred Shield when he has a bizilion of NS stacks. ERW can be used to force the bubble in the beginning or as a finisher during the AMZ/Death Pact phase. Keep always the pressure up, which it means if he tries to go the other way to heal with some flash heals or using the pet as an Holy Power resource, grip him and force him to attack you. Kiting 100% of the time isn't going to work sometimes, because you're not hitting him in melee range and some Rets spam WoG instead of getting Wings + AG stacks asap (so they nullify your pet damage), so you have to go in there and spam some NS. Pet stunning and pet rooting is left at your discretion, it really depends how the Ret uses Turn Evil. Pay attention at that spell if you are under Lichborne, it can !@#$ up the duel. Strangulate can be used to prevent healing during Sacred Shield or when all cds are out, but even to force the bubble.
Now you can duel Rets and try to win, because it's not a paper > rock fight, rng can have a great impact here, but most of the times, if played correctly, you can win.

ret is guess, unless you can get a nice spell copy from the pala

Uhm no. The only melee classes that a DK will lose almost 100% against are Ferals and Rogues with BiS gear. You can win against a Ret, don't spread misinformation. The strategy goes around making him wasting time while keeping the pressure, so hoping in no Divine Purpose procs, he will take much more than 14 sec to get 3 Holy Powers. Kiting is the key and you start the fight with a decent distance from him. Unholy Frenzy almost immediatly to prevent Repetance and I usually use Dark Sim after he popped his Freedom, so I can copy another spell. Gargoyle at 60rp. IBF the stun. Save the trinket for another stun or Repentance if he still has it. Pop AMS + Lichborne at low hp to basically get another full hp bar and most of times I'm in melee range at that point to soak runic power. I use AMZ/Death Pact at last, which is basically when he used all of his cds and I'm in melee range to finish him off. If you can use Death Pact when the pet is feared, it's another advantage to you. Spam NS pretty much the all fight, but some SS are good if you want to force the bubble or destroy Sacred Shield when he has a bizilion of NS stacks. ERW can be used to force the bubble in the beginning or as a finisher during the AMZ/Death Pact phase. Keep always the pressure up, which it means if he tries to go the other way to heal with some flash heals or using the pet as an Holy Power resource, grip him and force him to attack you. Kiting 100% of the time isn't going to work sometimes, because you're not hitting him in melee range and some Rets spam WoG instead of getting Wings + AG stacks asap (so they nullify your pet damage), so you have to go in there and spam some NS. Pet stunning and pet rooting is left at your discretion, it really depends how the Ret uses Turn Evil. Pay attention at that spell if you are under Lichborne, it can !@#$ up the duel. Strangulate can be used to prevent healing during Sacred Shield or when all cds are out, but even to force the bubble.
Now you can duel Rets and try to win, because it's not a paper > rock fight, rng can have a great impact here, but most of the times, if played correctly, you can win.

Nice, uhh.. Wall.

08/08/2012 20:08Posted by Møbius

lol

Ret should win, DKs get absolutely destroyed by melee, you can take craploads of damage through AMS, they can fear your main sources of damage, necro is a bit of a !@#$ to heal through but the option to bubble and WoG is always there, once the DK falls behind (this WILL happen if you're doing enough damage) there's usually no coming back as they rely heavily on momentum to play

Uhm no. The only melee classes that a DK will lose almost 100% against are Ferals and Rogues with BiS gear. You can win against a Ret, don't spread misinformation. The strategy goes around making him wasting time while keeping the pressure, so hoping in no Divine Purpose procs, he will take much more than 14 sec to get 3 Holy Powers. Kiting is the key and you start the fight with a decent distance from him. Unholy Frenzy almost immediatly to prevent Repetance and I usually use Dark Sim after he popped his Freedom, so I can copy another spell. Gargoyle at 60rp. IBF the stun. Save the trinket for another stun or Repentance if he still has it. Pop AMS + Lichborne at low hp to basically get another full hp bar and most of times I'm in melee range at that point to soak runic power. I use AMZ/Death Pact at last, which is basically when he used all of his cds and I'm in melee range to finish him off. If you can use Death Pact when the pet is feared, it's another advantage to you. Spam NS pretty much the all fight, but some SS are good if you want to force the bubble or destroy Sacred Shield when he has a bizilion of NS stacks. ERW can be used to force the bubble in the beginning or as a finisher during the AMZ/Death Pact phase. Keep always the pressure up, which it means if he tries to go the other way to heal with some flash heals or using the pet as an Holy Power resource, grip him and force him to attack you. Kiting 100% of the time isn't going to work sometimes, because you're not hitting him in melee range and some Rets spam WoG instead of getting Wings + AG stacks asap (so they nullify your pet damage), so you have to go in there and spam some NS. Pet stunning and pet rooting is left at your discretion, it really depends how the Ret uses Turn Evil. Pay attention at that spell if you are under Lichborne, it can !@#$ up the duel. Strangulate can be used to prevent healing during Sacred Shield or when all cds are out, but even to force the bubble.
Now you can duel Rets and try to win, because it's not a paper > rock fight, rng can have a great impact here, but most of the times, if played correctly, you can win.

lol stop

You assumed the ret is an absolute idiot. Re-write the post for a ret who knows what he's doing.

You don't just "kite" a ret who knows what he's doing 1v1 as unholy.

Ret will win every single game...

yea ret is the winner...

after that dk uses his AMS and AMZ hes dead in about 6 seconds and since u can easily tank through AMS and bubble through AMZ thats one dead deathknight...lichborne is irrelevant due to u just stun/fear/repentance during his main regen mechanic

Uhm no. The only melee classes that a DK will lose almost 100% against are Ferals and Rogues with BiS gear. You can win against a Ret, don't spread misinformation. The strategy goes around making him wasting time while keeping the pressure, so hoping in no Divine Purpose procs, he will take much more than 14 sec to get 3 Holy Powers. Kiting is the key and you start the fight with a decent distance from him. Unholy Frenzy almost immediatly to prevent Repetance and I usually use Dark Sim after he popped his Freedom, so I can copy another spell. Gargoyle at 60rp. IBF the stun. Save the trinket for another stun or Repentance if he still has it. Pop AMS + Lichborne at low hp to basically get another full hp bar and most of times I'm in melee range at that point to soak runic power. I use AMZ/Death Pact at last, which is basically when he used all of his cds and I'm in melee range to finish him off. If you can use Death Pact when the pet is feared, it's another advantage to you. Spam NS pretty much the all fight, but some SS are good if you want to force the bubble or destroy Sacred Shield when he has a bizilion of NS stacks. ERW can be used to force the bubble in the beginning or as a finisher during the AMZ/Death Pact phase. Keep always the pressure up, which it means if he tries to go the other way to heal with some flash heals or using the pet as an Holy Power resource, grip him and force him to attack you. Kiting 100% of the time isn't going to work sometimes, because you're not hitting him in melee range and some Rets spam WoG instead of getting Wings + AG stacks asap (so they nullify your pet damage), so you have to go in there and spam some NS. Pet stunning and pet rooting is left at your discretion, it really depends how the Ret uses Turn Evil. Pay attention at that spell if you are under Lichborne, it can !@#$ up the duel. Strangulate can be used to prevent healing during Sacred Shield or when all cds are out, but even to force the bubble.
Now you can duel Rets and try to win, because it's not a paper > rock fight, rng can have a great impact here, but most of the times, if played correctly, you can win.

lol stop

You assumed the ret is an absolute idiot. Re-write the post for a ret who knows what he's doing.

You don't just "kite" a ret who knows what he's doing 1v1 as unholy.

You might want to study your language more, everything is there, learn to read. It was already hard enough to explain it. Just running all the time isn't going to work.

The ret has a high chance to win due to the high heals, and if they get low, just seal swap to insight for a bit. They should also be cleansing quite alot to escape chains. All in all, if the ret plays a good 70% defensively, they should win, as those necro's won't get chance to stack too high.

The unholy dk has a few tricks as well, but alot of the damage is due to the pet, so ret having the turn evil glyph is a major bonus.

Note that the dk has to go lichborne to heal alot as well to spam deathcoil him/herself, so that turn evil glyph will help alot in that situation too, and ofcourse guaranteed exorcism crits.

But mainly, it all comes down to the skill of both players.