Topic
Very, very simple Loot LFR Fix. /no; trade, value or de
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Edited by Cúddles on 21/02/12 10:22 (UTC)
What we need:
- Make all loot aquired non-tradable. - Make all loot aquired non-disenchantable. - Make all loot aquire have no selling value. - Remove the 'need' option if the person already has the item (in bank or a higher version of it) - If a person accidently needs an item they do not, they have a 5 minute window to re-raid roll it between other needers/greeders (mailed to anyone who was absent) To be discussed: - A 15% Epic Gem chance for those who do not need on any loot in LFR. LFR whilst a great idea, the implementation for the loot is very, very poor one. Reasons for Needing: - They actually need it. - To trade for something later - To win for a friend - To DE - Game Theory states as our realms are in competition we should ALWAYS need. So there is 1/5 reasons that people need on an item and 3/5 reasons why they do need on an item and 1/5 reasons why they should ALWAYS need on an item. So how is the person who actually needs it ever going to win something fairly against players who will do the other 4/5 (of which 1/5 makes logical sense)? Yes I encourage community play, but please please fix this god awful loot system! ------------Conclusion of Players and Attitude------------ The loot system of 'need before greed' works great in tight communities of players. But in such a connecting feature as LFR where you may never see another player again, there is no backlash when someone takes an item they do not need. The main arguements in this thread and accross others are this sence of 'entitlement' to all loot they can need on - if no other reason than; they helped kill it. And thus the only way to counter this is my original posting above. Remove the possibility of needing on items they do not need (as they already have it) and secondly remove any value it had, so that it remains fair. While the case of 'entitlement' will still exist, people will not complain over losing out on something that had no value to them anyway. ------------Solutions------------ The Player History Inspection Solution Looking at a person's loot history in LFR should be taken in to consideration. Looking at what items they recieved and what they did with it. For instance selling it would mean they do not need it again likewise for DE'ing. Looking at (for example) only the last five LFR lockouts. "Remove the 'need' option if the person already has the item" Extension [The following is split in to two sections] - Sub Heading: Obvious dps/heal/tank pieces. Some items have a very clear purpose (just by reading the stats) by that I mean it is very clear if the role of the item was designed for dps/healer or tanking. However it is not always clear which items (especially tier tokens) which role they could and/or should be used for. But in some cases it is very clear. Blizzard have shuffled through the gear and implemented this. But they have not looked at a persons gear, bank or mailbox to see if they already have these items in a higher ilvl form. - Sub Heading: Tier Tokens As for tier tokens; It is clear if the person has two of the same tier tokens used in there bags or bank they would not 'need' another. I say this because a person can only have two specs. But if the token is in there bank and it has been for over a certain length of time the option to need on a third should open up. As it will be soon clear they wish to change out there second spec and thus require the token again. But the above can be solved by allowing all LFR tier set pieces to "always" (time limit removed) be traded back for the token. Removing all enchants/gems if they so choose to do so. And thus if they had two in there bags or bank (or in the game 30 day garbage bin that GM's look in to get recently accidently deleted items back) there 'need' option will be removed untill they delete one. And after a month (whereby a GM could get the token back for them). "Make all loot aquired non-tradable." Extension Make loot non-tradable to others players. And also give the winner the option to re-raid roll it between the needers/greeders. But only for a short amount of time. *Edit: 21/02/2012 - Sub Heading: Tier Tokens |
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Edited by Teiksma on 16/02/12 13:55 (UTC)
What we need:Why? What "could" be implemented:Just no because of its already enough dps filling healer/tank roles. Rolling on tokens for offspecs is fine and should stay like that. LFR whilst a great idea, the implementation for the loot is very, very poor one. Reasons for Needing:While rolling need for DE/vendor is disputable, rolling need for friends and later trade to other items is perfectly fine. Its awful because you lost roll on item "you desire so much but others dont"? |
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Either your trolling or you actually think the loot system is fine? Whats your views on it Teiksma?
What we need:Why? |
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Cheeseberry,
Maybe because it is a large issue. I am not here to flame the system; I think it is a great idea - it gives those who haven't seen raiding content before a chance and also gives people a clue for when they do it on normals. But the loot system needs fixing. I understand from a developers point of view why they would want to avoid hard coding in alot of situations - But sometimes it is required. People can't be trusted and on the internet they would rather troll than offer anything remotely useful. This is the very reason why kids can't buy an internet connection of there own. |
Loot system is flawed regarding that items are flagged for certain role and certain class separeately. It should be so that items are flagged for certain class + role + current 2 specializations. Everything else is working just fine. And this flaw of course is know to Blizzard devs, and they are working on it already. So creating new threads on same topic.. you know :) |
Begging the question. Prove that it is broken in the first place. |
Firstly, I never asked a question. Secondly, if I was going to ask a question... it would be what made you think you are so special that you shouldn't join one of the other 1,000,000 ACTIVE THREADS on the first page of the forum about this every same issue, as the forum guidelines implies you should? |
Because it will lower the chance people need on gear for other reasons than needing it for a gear upgrade. What "could" be implemented: He means for a spec. So if you want a token for your off-spec, then queue in that spec.
I think you just made his point why it should change.
Most pointless comment I read way too often. Blizzard has designed it this way with the idea that people will be honost and realize u share loot with people that need it too. It happens way too often people find it perfectly fine to need on gear they do not need and then trade with friends later. Yesterday 19 people needed on an intellect ring. U almost would think there was no melee in there. It's not perfectly fine, it's an arrogant and selfish thing to do. And if you don't care, there is defenatly something wrong. I wonder if all those people would be perfectly fine if they are waiting in a line for 30min. and when there are only 2 left in front of him, those people invite 6 of their friends to go stand in front of them and they have to wait another 30min. |
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Edited by Lyxi on 16/02/12 14:18 (UTC)
Arrogant and selfish does not automatically mean wrong. You are not the ultimate authority for Universe morality.
Flawed analogy. Those 'friends' were there when you killed the boss. You didn't balk at their firepower then, did you? Then why balk when they're entitled to loot? |
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Edited by Cúddles on 16/02/12 14:22 (UTC)
I do agree but sadly that sort of hard coding is really, really inefficient as you can understand. And then you have the cross over stats (spirit classes as hit for example). In a perfect world yes i'd go for that model, but developers time is sadly short. I don't think they implement a 20% free time model like some of the other larger companies do. My solution was thought from an abstract prospective that could be implement in a short amount of time. Simple Logic Item 1 - We will call X. Does the personal already have X on there char? (Equipped, bags, bank, mailbox) Yes - Greed Roll only. No - ..... But my original post was to try and discourage away from people needing, for offspec thats a greed role (you dont actually need it). So why do people need it I asked myself? And thus my first post stands. |
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Edited by Lindadeana on 16/02/12 14:30 (UTC)
Arrogant and selfish does not automatically mean wrong. I did not say arrogant and selfish is wrong. And judging is for ignorant people
Not flawed, same thing. U are all waiting in the same line. Just some have to wait a few months longer because of the system. |
Horrible analogy. |
What is this, I don't even... |
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Lindadeana and Lyxi,
I think what you are both trying to get at - Which I have not specifically touched on. But I shall shed some light on to... You could queue up every week and never win an item you actually need on. Due to vast player base wow has you would unlikely come accross the same players in LFR, so needing an item you do not need against another player you would most likely never see again would generate no remorse and no blacklash. But my original post idea is to combat the reasoning of the 'need'? Take away any benefit from needing on something and you combat the LFR loot needing problem. The post has kinda split off now in to: 1. How to stop people needing (without touching the reasons behind it) 2. How we should hardcode it in to the game 3. I can need with no blacklash. |
I am sorry... I am afraid this is too advanced for WoW forums. |
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Edited by Brim on 16/02/12 14:42 (UTC)
I use the following assessment without inspecting other people, which takes me about 2-5 seconds:
Is the need button lit? No, pass Do I have the item? Yes, pass Do I have better? Yes, pass Have I passed yet? No, press need. It is like peeing in black pants; "a warm feeling, but no one notices.", but it works for me. I do not care if other people win loot I have pressed need on. My only gripe is if I do win, I have to beat off the whisperers with a stick, asking if I really really need it. Like you're on trial or something. There is no end to it. Of course I need it, I pressed that button just now. I would like a feature/add-on "Ignore whispers from other realms while in randomized groups". That would be bliss. |
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In regards to this post...I'm not sure whether or not you're being serious.
This has been made clear, through other threads, and through how the system works, and will always work: If you can roll need on an item, regardless of whether your item is 'better' (some people judge 'better' with itemlevel, which is not always the case with LFR items.) You can still roll on it. If you win it, you're entitled to do whatever you like with it. Be it, trade it, vendor it, disenchant it. If you lose it. You lose it. Sorry bro. And it's, quite frankly, non of your business what they do with it afterwards, if they say they don't want to give it to you. Sure, you can try and ask them nicely for it. But if they say no, drop it. You lost the roll, you're not entitled the item. You lost the item, get the hell over it already. What I'm saying is this:
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No, you are wrong... it's just not even slightly relevant to the discussion at hand. Worst, Analogy, Ever. |
