Topic
Ysera is shaman?
|
The thread is inspired by the new calculator, released on 15.02.2012. There is a spell called Ascendance. When I read the restoration water ascendant, I was stuned, because:
1. Ysera isn't a shaman, she is a druid. Didn't you see the enflorance under her on Ultraxion encounter? 2. Why did blizz give you this thing, when you already have restribution cd. The purpose of the thread: 1. What do you think about your new cd? 2. Don't you think you have too much cds inc (90 lvl talents aren't rdy yet)? 3. Healing Rain provides 10% magic dmg reduction. 4. Don't you become a cd healer? (My thread was intented to be "I hate you for taking my healing cd")I'm concerned shamans taking a lot of 2-3 min cds, so idk what the out of cd healing power of shaman would be. Waiting for responds. |
|
Just because it's a druid spell doesn't mean a shaman can't learn to do something similar. We both have versions of Nature's Swiftness after all.
1. It seems cool. 2. Not really. Resto has needed a proper throughput cooldown rather badly. 4T13 was intended as a band aid to solve that problem temporarily. 3. Interesting. It should probably have worked like that from the start, just to make it more interesting. 10% may be a bit much, though. 4. We're currently the "no cooldowns" healer. 4T13 aside, we have one defensive cooldown, one emergency heal cooldown, and zero proper throughput cooldowns. If you compare that to holydins who currently have two defensive, one emergency heal and three throughput cooldowns. To expand on that last bit: The lvl60 tier forces us to choose between two cooldowns we already have: Elemental Mastery is Timewalker (4T13; same effect, duration and cooldown) while Ancestral Swiftness is Nature's Swiftness with a shorter cooldown. So that tier sets us back one cooldown compared to now. The next tier lets us choose between Healing Tide Totem, Ancestral Guidance and Fortifying Waters. If we pick one of the cooldown options, we're back up to the same number of cooldowns as now. If you pick Fortifying Waters, you're still down one. Add Ascendance to the equation, and we're at either the same number of cooldown, +1, or potentially -1 if you pick Echo of the Elements and Fortifying Waters. |
|
The green buff from Ultraxion always went to shamans anyway so its all fine.
I don't see Fortifying Waters getting out of Beta. Its just too strong of a talent(unless there are a couple of similar ones i missed in the other healer classes). |
I'm very excited about it, though I do feel that 100% theoretical output increase for that duration is quite high. I don't think Tree of Life is 100% healing increase either. Mana Tide totem, Spirit Link totem, Spiritwalker's Grace, Ascendance as baseline. Call of the Elements, Elemental Mastery / Ancestral Swiftness, Healing Tide totem / Ancestral Guidance, possible lvl90 cd as talented. Hm, you may have a point, 8 cooldowns. To have that bonus though we give up one cooldown. Depending on the fight, it can be either awesome (somewhat constant stream of AoE magical damage) or bad (little to no magical damage, or spiky magical damage on individual members) It seems so, but I wonder if this will come at a cost; will our non-cd healing be too low, making us bad healers for sustained damage and good at burst damage? |
That's just a numbers thing. Reduce the damage reduction to 1% and the talent is useless. Bring it up to 90% and it's horribly overpowered. Pick some appropriate number in between, and the talent is fine. There's nothing broken about the concept. |
4. We're currently the "no cooldowns" healer. 4T13 aside, we have one defensive cooldown, one emergency heal cooldown, and zero proper throughput cooldowns. If you compare that to holydins who currently have two defensive, one emergency heal and three throughput cooldowns. I agree on this, but I still find your spirit link totem to be a total beast in certain scenarios :P |
On the contrary, i don't have a problem with the number, i have a problem with the uniqueness of the source and the need for it. Lets say that talent makes it as it is out of MoP Beta. 10% Magic Reduction if you are in your resto shamans healing rain, means that you absolutely NEED a resto shaman for 25 man raiding. Lets however say every healer gets such a talent. It just becomes the magic dispel of Cataclysm all over again. Ok guys, who specs into 10% less magic taken today? That talent just has to go. As it is right now, its not an option for elementals/enhancements and its just too good for 25 man raiding to pass out on. |
|
I'm confused. What led you to believe Ysera is a druid? She's a *dragon*. Just because she has a circle of efflorescence beneath her during the Ultraxion encounter doesn't necessarily mean she's a druid. It may just coincide, you know, with her colour-scheme. Which is kinda green. As in Emerald.
You know. The Emerald Dream. |
|
I'm confused. What led you to believe Ysera is a druid? She's a *dragon*. Just because she has a circle of efflorescence beneath her during the Ultraxion encounter doesn't necessarily mean she's a druid. It may just coincide, you know, with her colour-scheme. Which is kinda green. As in Emerald. I don't understand what that has to do with us anyhow |
You miss my point. The need for it is entirely dependent on the number. To make an even more extreme example, imagine it reduced incoming magic damage by 0,001%. Hardly something you would need. If it was a talent right now, you'd skip it. No one in the raid would care, and people would just laugh if you linked it. However, at 90% reduction it would be entirely mandatory, and likely even impossible to raid without as fights would either have to be balanced around it or be completely trivialized by it. No resto shaman tonight? Well, that probably means no raiding. Somewhere in between lies balance: a buff that's good, but not required. You know. I'm going to assume that druids have a patent for "ability that duplicates your healing done and distributes it evenly across nearby friendly targets". |
|
In other words, as long as our total AE healing (between Healing Rain + Chain Heal + either of Healing Tide / Fortifying Waters / Ancestral Guidance ) is on par, we're close~good. It'd mean we're slightly less flexible by ourselves (since we rely on "gimmicks"), but we'd stack well. |
|
Edited by Kulia on 17/02/12 17:38 (UTC)
I don't like the vibe of this thread.
Shamans were hands down the weakest healer overall throughout Cata. They are competitve now in DS, but only competitive, nothing more. And now that it looks like shamans will finally recover again in MoP and will get some cool stuff, people begrudge them their new abilities from the start, before Beta's even out. Why?? Currently every healer has at least one throughput Cd, shamans have none. What is so bad about it, if shamans get one too with MoP? I don't understand it. Please explain it to me. Besides that, druids will get Ironbark skin, which will leave shamans as the only healing class in game with no proper tank Cd. It seems to me like some people just want shamans to rot at the bottom of healing done forever, so that no other class ever has to take that awkward spot. Seriously, I just laugh at people worrying that shamans will become too strong. If anything, it's paladins you should look out for. They already have much more Cds than every other healer in the game and they still get more stuff, like an absorbtion shield and so far it also looks like they're going to keep beacon and their strong Aoe healing. And the monk talent tree still isn't out yet, too. Also, I still can't see a way to handle heavy raid damage as a shaman when the raid is spread out. This is something I would rather see improved, and you can gladly take Fortifying Waters from me. PS: Look at this: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=79206/spiritwalkers-grace#screenshots:id=213438 Omg Ysera really is a shaman! |
Hm, you may have a point, 8 cooldowns. And the problem with that is...? Also, out of all of those Cds not a single one can serve as a valuable Tank Cd. Paladins have at least 8 cooldowns too (Lay on Hands, Divine Favor, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, Guardian of ancient Kings, Avenging Wrath,Aura Mastery..), and the best is all of them are baseline which means they can spend their talent points for something else. Honestly, do you really have to argue about shaman strength before Beta has even started? Every healer will get their share of new spells and changes with MoP, why do you all begrudge it shamans so much if they now get a few more Cds after years of having not a single one? I was excited and happy when I saw the new shaman talents, but now that I see how the healer community reacts to it, I'm afraid that Blizzard will revert some of them, just because of all those envious whiners who forever want shamans as bottom-healers whose sole purpose is to make the others look better on the meters. But I guess, you all won't give up anyway until shamans are back to the state they were in at the beginning of Cata.. |
My problem with it is that too many cooldowns may mean that our healing prowess or longevity when we don't use any of those may be subpar. I'd rather have respectable baseline non-cd reliant healing and use a few cooldowns when they're needed, than have to chain them. Boss start cd1 -> 20sec later cd2 -> another 20sec later cd3 -> another 20sec later cd4 -> another 20sec later cd5 -> another 20sec later cd6 -> another 20sec later cd7-> woot, cd1 is ready, let's go from scratch all over again. I don't argue with our strength, I argue about a playstyle I personally would not like to encounter, the one I typed before this quote. And quite frankly stop the whining. |
|
So you don´t whant a rotation?? Welcome to our mastery |
|
|
With bonus 4 shaman has too. That's where there is a MoP talent to provides you the 30 haste. So will holy priest have throughput cd. Because now for zonoz,only hpriest doesn't have a 2nd cd to overcome the dmg while everybody else has. So you will have you're ouput cd not as a bonus from set. As for shamans not having a tank cd - Nature Swiftness does excellent job. Insta 50-60K no crit is not a bad thing. The fact shamans use it for CH is another problem. Blizzard gave you instant GHW, but if you don't want to use it, it's your problem. The new tank shaman has is called Ancestall Swiftness + Ancestrall Guidance. Or Elemental Mastery + Ancestrall guidance. First thing provides instant GHW + 40% of what it did (if the tank is still the lowest % hp person after recieving the instant GHW). Echo of the elements is interesting thing, but blizz has to give some % information for procing, so you can know if it is good. The thing that resto MoP is missing is LB to returns mana. It should be added but for the reduced effect. Honestly only priest's tree is the !@#$est one atm. All other trees has something new and cool, while priest's one get's a little improvement (last tier). Not to mention most of healers pasive talents will go into the spells they interacting with, while holy still misses Test of fait (and if you see the new Desperate prayer icon you will see it won't be added). Where is the balance here? What makes priest atractive like other healers? |
My problem with it is that too many cooldowns may mean that our healing prowess or longevity when we don't use any of those may be subpar. I'd rather have respectable baseline non-cd reliant healing and use a few cooldowns when they're needed, than have to chain them. Currently paladins have both the most Cd and the strongest baseline heals. So those two things don't cut each other. I personally wouldn't mind being more balanced around Cds. It means higher output potential if you really manage them perfectly and will make the gameplay more challenging. And quite frankly stop the whining. You do notice this thread only exists because someone other than me had to whine about shaman abilities before Beta's even out? I was just reacting to that and writing my point of view as a shaman player. I'm sure you're also one of those shamans who preached that the class is fine at the beginning of Cata just for the sake of not whining.. The new tank shaman has is called Ancestall Swiftness + Ancestrall Guidance. Or Elemental Mastery + Ancestrall guidance. First thing provides instant GHW + 40% of what it did (if the tank is still the lowest % hp person after recieving the instant GHW). Again, shamans must skill those in their talent tree and can't have all of them at the same time, while every other healing class get theirs baseline when chosing the spec. And please, you can hardly count Nature's Swiftness as a valuable tank Cd, it can't prevent the tank dying from a blow that would have otherwise killed him, like Painsup, new Barkskin, Guardian Angel or Hand of Sacrifice. It also becomes less valubale with the Healthpool/Healing ratio rising again with MoP. Having all of the Cooldowns accessible in the talent tree also means that the Dps shaman specs can skill them, so you don't even necessarily have to bring a Resto shaman for those Cds, if the rest of the package is as weak as it was at Cata start. Honestly only priest's tree is the !@#$est one atm. All other trees has something new and cool, while priest's one get's a little improvement (last tier) And why is all your anger directed at shamans then in this thread? To me paladins look just as strongly designed, if not more. And you haven't even seen the monk talent tree yet. The talent trees are far from final. Chances are good, that priests also get a lot more changes too. You at least have to wait for Beta until you can claim that a class is too strong or too weak. |
Potentially 7 cooldowns if you picked a cooldown ability in every tier, and with very different uses. It's too early to assume that our end tier talent will be an active ability; there are plenty of passive level 90 talents for other classes. Right now a holydin has Divine Plea, Divine Favor, Aura Mastery, Avenging Wrath, Guardian of Ancient Kings, Lay On Hands and Hand of Sacrifice. That's seven. Same as we'd have if we speced for a cooldown in every tier. It's not as much as it sounds like, as they have different uses.
Because recasting something every ~10 seconds is hard? Healing Rain says hi. Water Shield, Earth Shield and Ancestral Vigor also send their regards. |
