Topic
Savage roar in mop
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Edited by Droni on 19/02/12 18:54 (UTC)
I made this post at mop forums also but i want to hear what other ferals have to say about it.
From a feral pov i really want to make my complains about savage roar.(pvp) Making the spell boost 30% of total damage again is a step backwards for the class. against rogues the energy regenaration of the feral is to week and having to spend more energy for a spell like that its very bad. the worst thing is that this spell is mandatory you have to run it 100% of the time and this completely neglets the choice of play. My biggest life issues atm with it, is what the developers have done. they removed bear form from feral in pvp that means that now we are very very easy targets for others. that said what will happen to the feral when i need atleast 5 seconds of uptime to a target to have enough debuffs to finaly start using my total damage on a player?when other just turn on me and with a total of 2 sec's people can nuke me easy mode with their potential 100% power. most of other classes have maximum 1 debuff . A feral needs mangle,savage roar,bleed and then start using shred to apply rip after 7 sec's and then savage roar will be off again making all other posible choices of finishers useless. My suggestion is that savage roar needs revamp . 1) double or triple the time per compo point (Like you did with rogue slice and dice) 2)Give it additional benefits.10 energy gained per 3 seconds of savage roar up like slice and dice 3)Just make it work like it did on cata. good and must for raids to be up. crap for pvp p.s you did very nice work making rogues not having to run recuperate 24/7 and you boosted their slide and dice to everything you can do about it. double up time and energy regen. you made rogue play style very easy.Ferals as energy users need it also. ps 2 i compared feral with rogue for obvious reasons (both energy users with similar compo play style) |
Yes it does matter, try keeping up savage roar (wich is dispellable enrage effect) - 5 cp Rip / and Maim and still have energy to burst some w/o 10 years of energy pooling. |
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Yeah but i would like to buy Subterfuge,Anticipation and some heavy selfheals and restealth+clear all posion etc |
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Edited by Biiaa on 19/02/12 12:06 (UTC)
How is it a step backwards? it's taking it back to wrath where SR was prio over rip... keeping uptime getting in a cheeky FB when you could between refreshing them both, was good times determined the good from the bad hopefully it will do the same in MoP.
Just make it undispellable since it'll be part of our main damage and ferals will be fine, stop the qq or wanting to make your life easier, you're already a feral... i presume. |
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Edited by Droni on 19/02/12 15:04 (UTC)
How is it a step backwards? it's taking it back to wrath where SR was prio over rip... keeping uptime getting in a cheeky FB when you could between refreshing them both, was good times determined the good from the bad hopefully it will do the same in MoP. its a back step because bliz already decided it was bad to work like that and changed it. what you are forgetting is that dispel will not be the same. a simple cc will ruin everything,we will have to restart and restart the debuffs while doing no damage at the end. AND we don't have bear form.Feral will be targeted first thing and we cant afford time for debuffs. it will not be the same game. As for making my game easier. i will not say that you are wrong especially when i see rogues have it easier when they really don't need it. and to sum it up no bear, no dispel, savage roar needs to remain as it is. |
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I agree; the Savage Roar change is a step backwards to Wrath, where you were forced to drop your first few CPs into SR, which dramatically reduces Feral burst and makes us incredibly suceptible to anyone that can dispel Enrage effects. It was not a good model, and it's going to go BACK to being not a good model - something I've mentioned in the most recent Roflmiao podcast, which will be going live in the next couple of days.
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Edited by Lylise on 19/02/12 18:57 (UTC)
First, (First 2 if crit) not first few. You shouldn't be CP-starved for burst anyways. Kitties produce more than enough CP for SR + Rip/FB without pausing. In fact, it was already possible in Wrath; And only became easier in Cata with Stampede, lower TF cooldown and haste affecting regen. Duration on SR is more than long enough, even with a single CP spent on it. Dispell protection would be nice, since it'll be a very important part of our DPS again. Without going further into that discussion: Ferals aren't a burst-based class. While ferals have -some- burst, it's by no means something you should capitalize on. Pushing druids more towards the uptime-based bleed model is by no means a bad thing. If you want a burst class, don't play a feral. This change is a great thing for actually getting a bit of complexity back into PvE. I don't agree at all with the PvP concerns in this thread. Yes, it'll slightly affect feral burst, but it won't be as drastic as you proclaim it to be - And ferals aren't defined by their burst to start with. i compared feral with rogue for obvious reasons (both energy users with similar compo play style) That's like comparing Warlocks and Paladins because they both use mana and a similar system. Ferals aren't rogues, rogues aren't ferals. Rogues have their unique playstyle, ferals have their unique playstyle. Rogues are better than ferals at some things, ferals are better than rogues at some things. If you want to play a rogue, don't play feral. ~Vaeil |
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Edited by Droni on 19/02/12 19:31 (UTC)
In wrath ferals where really bad compared to cata. 2 things have changed since then 1.mastery, that everyone got anyway 2. savage roar all the rest are the same, feral got nothing new compared to wrath, only the 2 changes listed above
the amount of cc that is going to be available in mop its double from today. the amount of dispel in mop according to today is going to be minimized by 7 times slower. double cc less dispell. Ferals will not have the proper uptime to apply all this debufs needed for the potential 100% damage . For all the rest it takes 1 gcd to apply the maximum of debuff that they have (hemo for rogues.) And something that i try to put in your heads. bear form is gone.50 damage reduction is gone. 3 charges of nature grasp are gone.dispelling hex is gone.dispelling curses general is gone (lock debufs that got boosted to hell) we are talking for mop here. all i see you doing is compare the feral of today that you have in your mind with just the change of savage roar, and then you say big deal. it will be big deal in mop in so many ways. That's like comparing Warlocks and Paladins because they both use mana and a similar system. Ferals aren't rogues, rogues aren't ferals. Rogues have their unique playstyle, ferals have their unique playstyle. Rogues are better than ferals at some things, ferals are better than rogues at some things. sorry you are just wrong here.its not good to read only what you like. feral cat and rogue system/resource is totally comparable. And my comment on what they did with slice and dice it was a perfect example. A rogue has to run recuparate 24/7 not for the healing but for the energy gain.slice and dice is their mastery and it was must also. they made big changes at both and now a rogue with 1 compo point of cd gaines both benefits and duration of cata 5 points And don't say that it wasn't a way to just make it easier for them. And from the other hand we see things like stupid savage roar coming back. rofl |
That is exactly what i'm saying. In mop they make it easier since the are converting the energy regen to slice and dice. that means less things for a rogue to do. And at the oposite side with ferals they made them use more things that they do now. rogues don't need it easier. feral is ok as it is. with what are you arguing actually? did you read anything? |
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Edited by Cantor on 22/02/12 15:31 (UTC)
Rogues generate more CPs than Ferals do (thanks to Ruthlessness and far greater energy gain), and generate far more energy as well due to their passive talents (Venemous Wounds/Combat Potency/Energetic Recovery) coupled with Relentless Strikes; only one of those specs requires Recup to be rolled on them at all times, and it's the spec that underperforms significantly in PvE. The fact is Feral is in quite a strong place at the moment in PvE - I won't complain about it, we're firmly in the middle of the pack, which is really quite a pleasant experience as we're not riding the buff/nerf rollercoaster as we have done previously; however, with changes like the one to Savage Roar, it locks those first 1-2 CPs into being used for SR, and makes the spec generally rather more punishing to play. No-one lets SR drop off in combat as it is - with some exceptions; on an AoE pack, you've got to waste 65 energy to get SR up before you start AoEing - that's not a good feeling. When you open on somebody while PvPing, you need to waste valuable seconds of your Pounce stun making sure Roar is up before starting your Shreds. It was a bad model in Wrath, and it's a bad model now, leading to significant energy-starvation - unless there's a way for us to generate far more energy than we do now, you're going to struggle in PvP to maintain Rip, Roar, keep 15 energy pooled for Skull Bash, potentially have to use CPs for Maim as well... I'm sorry, but I've played this game as a Feral Druid since Vanilla and this is one of the changes to the spec that made me the most happy in Cataclysm, as it loosened up our opening rotation so much more. Show me an Arcane Mage that enjoys having to stack up Arcane Blast and maintain those stacks while AoEing, and I'll show you a masochist; this is a similar situation. |
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And at the oposite side with ferals they made them use more things that they do now. To my eyes, this sounds like you're afraid of a high skillcap... No matter if it's PvE or PvP... I've been feral for as long as i can remember and this change is something i welcome alot. It'll bring the skillcap back which ferals have lost with the last expansion. With this change in mind, playing feral might become harder and the community might suffer from it with rerolling. However, i'll say what i said on a different topic... Pre-judging right now on how the class will work without even having any beta testing is too far sighted. This savage roar change is more than welcome though...
Just going to comment on this one a little bit. Learn to play your class before making such a statement. A feral needs maximum of 4 seconds to apply everything, which is a pounce opener... |
Learn to play your class before making such a statement. pounce opener? yea right, this will give me the win in arena.Because none will stop it right. i can say tons of things now about skill and smg from your comment but i really lost the mood. Feral opener........... maybe 2 times in a game if the others are scrabs.... yea ok. And for rbg feral sucks cause the damage is to focused atm. in mop it will be worst . |
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Going to say again – we will be FORCED to waste energy on Savage Roar for AoE phases, which is not good design; the only spec required to do that currently is Arcane Mages, who have to stack AB up to 4 before using AE, and it's terri-bad design for them as well. Clunky and frustrating is what it is; this doesn't increase the Feral skillcap at all – no-one lets SR drop off anyway in a normal situation.
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Be my guest, make my day! :P
I don't know which game you're playing but this one is covered in them, and it's called scrubs :P
Wrong, ferals aren't that favoured in rbgs as we don't bring the utility as other classes do. |
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Curious how you end up talking about balance when this is a feral thread :P
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quotes have the answer.
And anyway my argument is not if savage roar will give 30% damage of total or boost only white damage. Using the ability on a mandatory way is not bad. the play style must remain hard. The argument is that it can give something more because as it is now its just to empty. 30% or nothing.i just don't see it.i didn't like it in wrath.not at that way.right now its also very empty in a way that it really can be removed and that is not so good also. i don't know. from the other hand symbiosys might give enough utility for better up time and survival. If for example we really get frost nova from mages . Maybe to early, maybe not. i just hope savage roar at mop will have different effect from wrath or cata it was to much on wrath and to of nothing in cata.maybe a middle ground could be nice also. |
