Having trouble killing someone 1v1

HI guys,

I need some help and advice pls. I'm having troubles to get my target completely down without any help. this is the way the fight go's...

I sap the target - wait for full energy - use premedidation and garotte to open - 2 x hemo - use kidney shot with 5 combo points - keep spamming hemo and use the first 3 combo points to start SnD - when kidney ends i try to use shadowdance so I can cheap shot him and use an ambush.

Now the easy part is over....

So far the target hasn't been able to do much. Maybe he could cast an instant or move a few steps (if he disengage or blinks I instantly shadowstep) but that's all he can do. His health has dropped to somewhere around 30% - 40% and now it is his turn to have some fun. He starts nuking me, using his CC and dots,.. i'm almost never capeable to finish him off.

I try to counter him as much as possible. Use my disarm, cloack of shadows, kick, gouge but at this point my health droppes down really fast the moment i start taking some hits (even with over 4K resil.)

What am I doing wrong. The main problem I'm facing at this point is the lack of energy. Did i use too much at start, should I try to vanish and wait for full energy and health (but so does my target)?
Is it just a matter of skill? Could be. I do not pretend to be a top player,but I'm no noob either. I know my character, know how to gear, gem, enchant, know my skills. I use keybindings and Razer naga to react faster,...

I do know that while leveling my rogue I was topping the charts in dmg and killing blows (I admit rogues are OP at lower level. I could kill ppl in my first 'rotation' and they ended up almost dead when my kidney ended). The problem I'm facing occured only after hitting level 85. First I thought it was a matter of gear, but now I got full Ruthless with ove 4K resil. and thing are still the same.

Should I use my first combo points (from premed.) to get up SnD or improved recup. before i start to attack?

Should I disengage more, vanish and comme back later?

Is it better to not use my kidney shot to bring the target to 30% - 40% but save it till later in the fight to try and finish him off at lower health?

Or is it maybe the role off the rogue not to focus on killing blows, but rather to CC healers, stun, sap, lock them down while others finish him or another target?

I need some advice pls. Love playing my rogue, but being able to kill now and then would make playing him even better.

Thx
Bursty
Edited by Bursty on 21/02/2012 00:26 GMT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
8215
hey fellow rogue dude

21/02/2012 00:15Posted by Bursty
I sap the target - wait for full energy - use premedidation and garotte to open - 2 x hemo - use kidney shot with 5 combo points - keep spamming hemo and use the first 3 combo points to start SnD - when kidney ends i try to use shadowdance so I can cheap shot him and use an ambush.


i would say its your opener that's causing the problem in my opinion ,
you need recuperate up at all times in sub because of the energy regeneration.

i would start with either
sap>premed>Cheap Shot>Shiv(crippling)>hemo>recup
sap>premed>Garrote>Shiv(Crippling)>hemo>recup ( on a caster )

Hope this helps
Edited by Kiky on 21/02/2012 11:16 GMT
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Thx for the reply,

Gonna try both but having doubts about the first opener with cheap shot. It shares DR with my kidney shot but will try it. Thought it was always bad to use cheap shot in your opener, but could be better?

What about starting my recup just after the premed (before I start to attack)?

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Thx for the reply,

Gonna try both openers but i'm having some doubts about the first one. I thought you should never use cheap shot at start becaurse the DR with kidney shot. This forces me to wait with kidney till end of the fight. Could be better to finish him within kidney at lower health, will certainly try it.


Always using SnD at start, gonna replace it with recup. Thx for the tip, will try.

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85 Blood Elf Rogue
6890
Im not a masterrogue myselves, but heres what I pref.

(I macroed Shadowstep with premed, cuz I hate having too much buttons really :P )

Shadow/med-macro > CS > Hemo > BS > BS > Recup.

This takes a fair amount of targets HP, so after this I either do some CC or Vanish to reset fight i my favour.

My dmg is mainly from BS while keeping a bleed up (with hemo).
The CP´s I use to keep Recup up as first pri, and S&D as second pri, offc when I dont need to use Kidneyshot for CC.

Hope this helps.
Edited by Fiende on 21/02/2012 01:15 GMT
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90 Human Rogue
9490
I macro premed with most of my openers but also keep it separately binded for those stealth recups <3

Usaully I garrote into a kidney then just spam backstab then recup. i'm not a good rogue but thats 60% of someones health right there unless it's a blood dk or something..

and another thing imo don't open with shadowstep because something like a hunter will just get space between you and you will have nothing to catch up.

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After I used my openers, my target has lost 60% off his health too, this is not a problem. As I tried to explain how the fight turns into his favor almost each time after my opening 'rotation' has finished.
I do admit I'm talking about good oponents with at least the same pvp gear. Bad players or unthergeared players aren't a problem.

I would like to know (not how to open) how the 'second' part of your fights go. Do you use another combination of abilities (like the opening rotation), do you vanish off cd, do you use smoke bomb off cd,...?
The last part of a fight is the most difficult part and searching through the rogue forum didn't gave me any solution :-(

After my openers I got full health, my target has 30%-40% health left and still I loose too many fights. Think I must be doing something wrong, my dmg is just not high enough.
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90 Human Rogue
9490
It's really situational depending on what you're fighting there isn't a set rotation just keep recup up, use defensive cooldown's wisely.

What classes are you having trouble with? like a good feral is going to beat you anyway:(
Use vanish to get away and reset or get that last half cheap or garrote off to take down a healer don't just use it because it's off cooldown.. same goes for all your cooldown's really :/

do you find yourself burning through cooldowns? Or even forgetting to use them? (not to sound patronising or anything) but when i first started this rogue i found i would panic and use evasion and combat readiness at the same time lol.
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91 Goblin Rogue
9945
sap>premed>Cheap Shot>backstab>recup


Hemo first for the +16% damage.

What about starting my recup just after the premed (before I start to attack)?


A neat trick if you have time is to Premed, wait 19.9 seconds, hit Recuperate, Premed again and open.

Shadow/med-macro > CS > Hemo > BS > BS > Recup.


Almost never use Shadowstep in the opener (some exceptions apply in desperate/easy cases). Save it because everybody will try to kite you.

I macro premed with most of my openers but also keep it separately binded for those stealth recups <3


This isn't always a good idea. Sometimes you waste combo points doing that, depending on how you Shadow Dance.
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85 Human Rogue
3680
Im listening to Mercader he really Helped me alot maybe you will also find it useful but here is link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOnI1N-B3k
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
8215
21/02/2012 08:23Posted by Kriis
sap>premed>Cheap Shot>backstab>recup


21/02/2012 08:23Posted by Kriis
Hemo first for the +16% damage.


@Kriis
Agreed and have edited my post accordingly , its just i have a nasty habit of getting a back stab in straight away :P



21/02/2012 01:02Posted by Bursty
Gonna try both openers but i'm having some doubts about the first one. I thought you should never use cheap shot at start becaurse the DR with kidney shot. This forces me to wait with kidney till end of the fight. Could be better to finish him within kidney at lower health, will certainly try it.


Its difficult to get a clean garrote on a target that is in combat and running around , plus generally starting with a stun on a melee class is better so they do not just turn round and start laying into you.

Yes cheap shot puts kidney on DR but how often will you kill your target in 21 secs .

Try the tips mentioned by myself and other posters and hopefully you will be happily backstabbing away soon.

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85 Goblin Rogue
11685
Im having the same problem as OP.
I know its a l2p issue. So i do my best to try to learn and master everything.

But i have a problem aswell.
How do you usually use Shadowdance correctly? A lot of the times,it just seems wasted. I barely can use 1 or 2 ambushes due to low energy

And what op asked aswell.
After the opener,do you just keep spamming Hemo,or use shadowdance directly?

ty in advance
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
8215
But i have a problem aswell.
How do you usually use Shadowdance correctly? A lot of the times,it just seems wasted. I barely can use 1 or 2 ambushes due to low energy


To use shadow dance effectively you need to have a full 5 point recuperate active , let your energy pool close to maximum , pop shadow dance and go for 3 ambushes , eviscerate then another 1-2 ambushes

And what op asked aswell.
After the opener,do you just keep spamming Hemo,or use shadowdance directly?


It depends on the situation , if its a melee class that moving around a lot i would go with hemo ,
if i get my opponent in a stun or gouge , i will go with backstab

keep shadow dance to burst when they have trinket down , can't get healed or low hp
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Hi Captivity,

I've been testing a few things out today and what worked for me today is that after the 'openers' I waited for almost full energy before using my shadowdance. Just make sure you got SnD running and crippling poison (with shiv) on the target so you can stay close. I stopped spamming my special attacks like hemo and just stayed close to him so I kept hitting him with my auto attacks (cost no energy).
Keep this going for a few moments and you'll have enough energy to start shadowdance with cheap shot and 2 x ambush.

I still need to test some more but I believe that the timing of a burst is very important for sub rogues. I tried to have a constant high dmg output in the past but this is not good to kill someone and makes you enery starved the moment you could finish him. Play more defensively (use defensive cd and counter some of his moves) but save energy for a combination of special attacks.

Hope this will help you
Bursty

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