Enchanters - victims?

85 Blood Elf Priest
4105
Come to my server, experience the joys of AH scrolls.
I hate the button, it has made me miserable too many times.
Why are you calling my arguments stupid? If it bothers me, it bothers me, no matter how stupid or infantile they may sound to you.



You know this to be a fact?

22/02/2012 18:29Posted by Lobotomy
We'll just have to deal with it, because it won't get changed back.
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MVP
85 Gnome Mage
6525
Come to my server, experience the joys of AH scrolls.
I hate the button, it has made me miserable too many times.
Why are you calling my arguments stupid? If it bothers me, it bothers me, no matter how stupid or infantile they may sound to you.

You know this to be a fact?


I wish I could, I see lots of opportunities to make gold. It's a lower amount of sales, but more profit per scroll compared to my server, and I sold scrolls for 2.5 million in Cataclysm.

Why do you hate the button? It brings more materials to the auction house, it makes something take no time that previously took 1 minute per dungeon run, and it increases the profit potential for an enchanter. Not a dungeon disenchanter (because materials will lower in value, and you'll get the same amount of mats), but an enchanter.

I'm not calling your arguments stupid, I'm calling them bad. I call them bad because they're not very effective if your intention was to get it changed. Of course no arguments so far have been effective when it comes to getting DE changed, but when it comes to trying to get other profession things changed, "I make less money" have pretty much not worked ever. It's the wrong angle of attack when it comes to making Blizzard change something.

I don't know it to be a fact, but I can say with a high probability that it won't be changed by remembering the amount of complaining that was brewed before it was implemented, and that nothing was done. And when it comes to a lot of other changes Blizzard have done, they very rarely go back on them. Especially not for something as small as disenchanting, for as something as small as professions. It's sad, but realistic. So instead of me hoping for the game to change into something I want it to be, and having a worse gaming experience because it hasn't been changed yet, I make the best of what it actually is.

Another reason why it most likely won't change, is that there aren't enough people against it. There are so many enchanters now that like it, and are having a better experience as an enchanter because of it, that you don't get hundreds of people every day making threads against it. One of the few proposed patch changes I remember them completely removing because of public outcry, was when the tailoring BoP crafts in TBC were going to be nerfed from Tier5 to around Tier 4.5. Tailors went crazy and filled two threads to the limit in a few days (1000 replies on EU forums alone), and the nerf was pulled. You never had that for DE, and you won't get that anymore, because there are fewer people strongly against it, and there are more people for it that balance the opinions.
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85 Human Paladin
2190
I don't sell myself. I meant "I" as in "Enchanter". I never bother to go, meet with people, trade, enchant, etc. for 25g.
How can you not see my point? I have enchanting and don't want to disenchant stuff for people for free. Why should I be obliged to do it? Can someone give me a good reason?

1. You're better off with it.
2. Everyone else is better off with it.
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90 Tauren Druid
7000
Well Idk, but I'm selling peerless stats for over 600G and Firewalker enchants for over 1 000G so even if I'm D/Eing for others it still pays off if you farm enough or if you're smart about buying things off AH.

This proffesion would be silly gold farm easily abused by every noob without this option.
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90 Troll Mage
7835
welcome to mmo's , VICTIM.
why should i do better dps than the guy who just dinged 85 on his first char, i mean its unfair that he's doing 10k and i have to do 35k! ill purposely go down to 10k too!

and if u want to keep talking about this nonsense... why should jewelcrafters take jewelcrafting? so that some newb might use our gems? .and they actually cost next to nothing if they aren't red. OMGZ we're the all victims here! thanks for opening my eyes op!


/end of sarcasm, also your just being a butthurt little kid and ur probably selling enchant scrolls double the price for 48hrs....
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85 Draenei Shaman
3660
OP fails...

5 people roll on an item.

Somebody else wins roll.

You don't DE item and item gets vendored. No mats for you.

As before but now you do DE item. No mats for you. (But they might be on AH later.)

How does making DE voluntary again change the above in any way shape or form?

On top of which you have no connection to the DE apart from being there, it's not like you have to stand around DEing the item.
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90 Night Elf Mage
10205
22/02/2012 15:39Posted by Ariaana
Remind me again why I am obliged to disenchant stuff in dungeons for free?


You aren't.

Just leave your rod in the bank. Hey presto, Disenchant vanishes!

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90 Troll Mage
9425
In my case, I experienced it as a positive thing. I'm an enchanter and I recently got to level 85 for the first time and got my ilevel to 329 which means technically good enough to start doing random cata heroics. My DPS at this point in time is between 9-10k damage which is, if I compare to my group mates, quite low. I mostly end up as worst damage (next to the healer). As you know, this mostly is a good reason to get kicked from your group in search of a better DPS.

Until this point in time I haven't been kicked yet from a group having done 4 heroics (small number yes). I admit I have been lucky with some nice persons in my PUG.
There was 1 time however where I almost got kicked, until someone in the group pointed out that I'm the disenchanter. They kept me as long I wouldn't be the cause for a wipe (which I luckily didn't)

In other words, the disenchanting features seems to provide me extra credit in random groups. So for me I don't mind it being a free feature for others to use.
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36 Tauren Druid
140
My main has been an enchanter most of the time I've played. When the new disenchanting system was implemented, I rejoiced. Why?

Before, in a dungeon, you'd have to remind everyone to pass the boss drops if they didn't want them (you could not trade after back then). Then you would pick up the blue/epic, disenchant it, and everyone would roll. Then you'd trade the shard to whoever won. Or, if you were sure you'd all together reach the end of the dungeon, you'd distribute the shards in the end. Not to disenchant would have been considered very impolite, stupid and lazy, even in pugs. (Shards were in high demand, and expensive.)

Also, I had to spend long moments disenchanting greens for my friends every now and then.

Now, everything gets sorted with a roll. So much less trouble.

Enchanting is one of those professions you can easily max out without loosing a silver, even if you start with a very small starter fund, I don't really understand the complaints about trouble & cost of leveling it.
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90 Troll Mage
10795
23/02/2012 10:21Posted by Irondawn
Before, in a dungeon, you'd have to remind everyone to pass the boss drops if they didn't want them (you could not trade after back then). Then you would pick up the blue/epic, disenchant it, and everyone would roll. Then you'd trade the shard to whoever won. Or, if you were sure you'd all together reach the end of the dungeon, you'd distribute the shards in the end. Not to disenchant would have been considered very impolite, stupid and lazy, even in pugs. (Shards were in high demand, and expensive.)


This Cross realm this would be a nightmare!
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82 Undead Priest
1045
Remind me again why I am obliged to disenchant stuff in dungeons for free?


You aren't.

Just leave your rod in the bank. Hey presto, Disenchant vanishes!


thank you so much for this tip. will do!

also, if I get to disenchant items for others, I should be able (by this logic) to skin/pick herbs/mine while in group with someone that has the ability, right?

otherwise I don't think it's nice of blizz to give us a lower chance at mats (reasons below):

a) no enchanter in group, item gets vendored and people usually don't want to waste bagspace on lousy items that get vendored for only a few golds so usually click pass;

b) enchanter in group = higher chance for people to hit disenchant (i mean higher than the average greed) since mats actually cost more gold then vendoring and they stack...

I personally consider it imbalanced at this time, but the rod idea is good.

LE: spelling
Edited by Furiosul on 23/02/2012 12:59 GMT
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58 Draenei Death Knight
530
I bet you're a great person to hang around with.
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82 Undead Priest
1045
you'd be amazed. but we each have our own level of craziness regarding different stuff. I, same as the op, can't see the reason why I should disenchant items for others as long as I can't skin/herb/mine. I really hope they will move the gathering professions to secondary so we can learn them all and be done with it.
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90 Human Paladin
18995
Got a enchanter aswell but i think making de only for enchanter would be ridaclous. what i would suggest keep this system but add something. Like if i win the dis roll and the weapon gives 1 heavenly shard the enchanter in the group receives it aswell. But this can be exploited to easy and make farming to easy.

So soemthing like alchemy proc basicly when making 1 truegold and receives 2 or 3. You dis for him auto it`s 3 heavenly shard and instead of making 3 (which he receives in dungeon) you always get 1 for yourself extra or when lucky 2. But at 1 crystal it should be a 25% chance to get it and at 2 50%.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
12035
23/02/2012 13:30Posted by Furiosul
you'd be amazed. but we each have our own level of craziness regarding different stuff. I, same as the op, can't see the reason why I should disenchant items for others as long as I can't skin/herb/mine. I really hope they will move the gathering professions to secondary so we can learn them all and be done with it.

Putting rod in bank doesn't do squat, sorry.
Skinning/herbing/mining is a gathering profession ONLY. Enchanting is both. Rings a bell now?
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85 Dwarf Priest
2045
OP is correct. Most of the arguements against are flawed. There are many other proffesions that can turn one thing into another thing and are not free to access by anyone else and can be seen as a "gathering" proffession as is gives you something you never had before.

For example:
JC can turn raw green into raw blue gems.
ALC can transmute many things.
LW can turn lesser skins into the next skin up.

Obviously these aren't things that drop in a pug, but a professions should be learnt and controlled by the character that rolled it and not used as a free for all.
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90 Night Elf Priest
7215
This is old news and there are several topics about it. My points is enchanters should get something from every disenchant (1g / 1 dust / experience / change of leveling up skill) or so on.
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90 Night Elf Mage
10205
23/02/2012 14:29Posted by Spamzel
Putting rod in bank doesn't do squat, sorry.


Thank you for this correction!

I had read that you needed a rod to disenchant, but had never tested it for myself. I just did.

My alt could still disenchant when the rod was in the bank, and could even disenchant after vendoring the rod. Obviously the rod has nothing to do with disenchanting.

I apologise to anyone I misled.
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88 Tauren Priest
5305
23/02/2012 20:39Posted by Gráinne
I had read that you needed a rod to disenchant, but had never tested it for myself. I just did.
Yeah, the rod is for enchanting, which is the profession you signed up for.

Of which D/E is a byproduct, which YOU get for free, without having to use up another profession slot for. Like maybe JC/BS/engineering for which you need metal (I am not going to say mining because i know enough people just buy it or farm it on another toon) but the point remains, its like another profession that you get free, and for nothing, and leaves you completely open to take another profession (that gives you the 80 stat points that everyone loves so much), while still moaning that someone who has Lw/skinning or BS/mining and misses out on a DOUBLE profession bonus is 'stealing something off you' (which they arent anyway *see various posts above).
Edited by Dysnomia on 24/02/2012 00:46 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8890
23/02/2012 12:58Posted by Furiosul
also, if I get to disenchant items for others, I should be able (by this logic) to skin/pick herbs/mine while in group with someone that has the ability, right?


NO.

These are NOT THE SAME THING.

The ONLY way these are comparable is if each mob has a chance of dropping a vendorable "bag" or container that can only be opened if a JC/Skinner/Miner in the group - Like a BoE is a container for Enchanting Mats, if there is not Enchanter the BoE gets vendored.

23/02/2012 15:05Posted by Shwanny
JC can turn raw green into raw blue gems.


What? No we can't.


23/02/2012 15:05Posted by Shwanny
but a professions should be learnt and controlled by the character that rolled it and not used as a free for all.


Does OP auto-Enchant items?

No? Then guess what, he controls his profession.

Enchanting is unique, in that you get the ability to gather mats required to level AND have another profession - Name one other that can, besides Tailoring. Every other profession relies on another.


23/02/2012 15:05Posted by Shwanny
There are many other proffesions that can turn one thing into another thing and are not free to access by anyone else and can be seen as a "gathering" proffession as is gives you something you never had before.


This is called crafting. In the same way an Enchanter turns one thing into another - Mats into an Enchant.
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