Dethroned during vacation.

85 Dwarf Warrior
5670
Hello,

I am founder of the guild <Prime> together with 7 of my in real life friends. About 5 weeks ago 12th of January i left my home country of Sweden for Thailand. During my time there I would not be able to play or in any other way communicate. So 3rd of January I believe my account was canceled(frozen), I would not activate it till I came back. So today I reactivated my account and got myself a bit of a chock.

I first noticed that some random person which I didn't know had the title as Guild Master. After a short conversation with the current GM someone stole the title as Guild Master and took everything from the bank and sold the guild for 30k gold.

Talking to a Game Master didn't give me anything since they weren't able to get the title back or making a new guild with same specs. I was told to go here and write what I'm thinking.

So I took my time to find this forum and I hope for goodness sake there is something you can do about my issue. Unaware of the change in policies and upcoming patches we left home. Me and my friends are all very upset for what has happened during the time we were gone and hope there is something you can do about this.

1 Year of Paying for World of Warcraft is allot of money for a student. 1 Year of spending time is allot of hours of work put into something that would be stolen by someone making un-honest profit.

The current "Guild Master" might consider to sell the guild to me for 30k gold. But I don't have either time or energy to put into getting that kind of money in wow. And I surely don't want it because of principles.


As I posted in another forum. If Blizzard cant do anything about this, I want it changed. That system is just plain stupidity. Worked well before, why change.
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21 Human Paladin
0
Don't listen to Lazio. His comments are unacceptable
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18 Troll Druid
70
Owned.

Don't abandon your guild for 30 days.
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88 Tauren Priest
5305
20/02/2012 21:29Posted by Bruceelee
Don't listen to Lazio. His comments are unacceptable

I'd say a bit blunt, but hey, hardly worth reporting him over (i'm guessing it was you).

@Slaxx - so where were your friends (who you set the guild up with) while you were on holiday/busy being dethroned?


*Edit - you wont get much sympathy round here mate.
Edited by Dysnomia on 21/02/2012 10:31 GMT
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85 Human Priest
11390
Why didn't you just add to one of the 50 threads already on this subject instead of making a new one? Your situation is not special, you abandoned your guild and the people in it for an extended period of time, what did you think would happen?

20/02/2012 21:02Posted by Slaxx
The current "Guild Master" might consider to sell the guild to me for 30k gold. But I don't have either time or energy to put into getting that kind of money in wow.


If you don't have either time or energy to grind 30k in wow then I would suggest you may want to rethink your aspiration to become a guild leader.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5720
Hi Slaxx,

1. Where did your 7 real life friends go?

2. This policy is not new, they just made it more obvious to people left stranded by their Guild Leader.

In my personal opinion I think anyone who wants to be a Guild Leader with a guild encompassing people who are not RL friends should be aware of ALL changes to rules. Did you want Blizzard to help recruit and tidy the bank for you aswell?

Sorry Slaxx but your a victim of your own downfalls here dude
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85 Human Priest
11390
20/02/2012 22:10Posted by Dysnomia
*Edit - you wont get much sympathy round here mate.


I think we were nice to at least the first 12 people with this problem... !
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88 Tauren Priest
5305
21/02/2012 10:41Posted by Serenal
I think we were nice to at least the first 12 people with this problem... !

Liked.
And to our credit too, then ;o)

Yep, understanding and tollerance only goes so far...

I'm still trying to work out what Blucelee's 'chip on the shoulder' is for.
Edited by Dysnomia on 21/02/2012 10:50 GMT
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Community
Thanks for your thoughts on this Slaxx. As always, we see your feedback and have taken note.

However, unfortunately, the system is rightly in place to protect people from long-standing inactive guild masters, giving higher-ranked characters in a guild a chance to take over after a full 30 days and resume guild leader activities. Had you promoted just one of your real-life friends to any rank higher than those players whom you did not know, this incident would not have occurred :-(

Hopefully people will become more aware of this mechanic over time.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
11705
21/02/2012 14:02Posted by Takralus
However, unfortunately, the system is rightly in place to protect people from long-standing inactive guild masters, giving higher-ranked characters in a guild a chance to take over after a full 30 days and resume guild leader activities. Had you promoted just one of your real-life friends to any rank higher than those players whom you did not know, this incident would not have occurred :-(


I would call a person with a FROZEN account who has not played WoW for 90 days or more "longterm", not an active subscriber who just wanted to go on a holiday. See my post in the other thread about making it that a dethrone requires 4 signatures from approving players in the guild, and then maybe you can make this feature to "work as intended".

To be guild leader of my guild, I needed 9 signatures, that got made into 4, is your next plan to let people do a guild without any signatures then? Because that is what you are letting those people who grab guilds do!!! Unfair in comparison to us who actually created a guild. If a player is so adamant that they can do a better job as guild leader of a guild, then make sure that they have the guild on their side and KEEP running the guild as it was before takeover before being allowed to change.

I've seen a rise of "Guild For Sale" posts on the forums... how many of these are guilds that got grabbed??? If any of them are grabbed guilds that the "new guild leader" is now selling, maybe instead of letting them do this, give that back to the original owner as selling a guild shows as LITTLE effort in caring about a guild as a guild leader staying offline 90+ days on a frozen account.

It was always my understanding from the first announcement of this feature that is was to get rid of players with frozen accounts who are absent guild leaders. I witnessed a guild takeover under the old system and there the player HAD to justify they were doing it for a genuine reason to keep a guild going. Making a dethrone happen ONLY if you got 4 signatures replaces that part of the guild leader replacement you FORGOT to implement in your haste to save your GMs ten minutes of time of talking to a person doing a petition.

And I say again, if you think if the FIRST member of a guild should not stay away from a guild for 30 days or more, then what about the other up to 999 other members. They can go offline and stay offline for months or even years without you knowing where they have gone. They can go play six months of SWTOR without a care in the world. In a guild there are up to ONE THOUSAND players who make the guild work, so if a guild leader gets demoted after 30 days of being away, then add the automation in so guild members get kicked TOO when offline 30 days or more, and I assure you'll have 90% of the players being guildless tomorrow, and you'll have a riot on your hands from all of them for becoming guildless. Just because it is the creator of the guild, don't treat them like we're something not worth it.

Questions I wonder over:
1) if you dethrone a player and then it is found that they were dethroned on day 29 and not day 30, are you going to give a guild back then?
2) will you refund our guild website costs such a dethroned guild leader now has lost?
3) why is it so hard for you to do the same requirement of 4 signatures as with a guild creation?
4) are you removing this tool tip soon because it's an insult for every guild leader who followed it and then got punished: "Bring your friends to Azeroth, but don't forget to go outside Azeroth with them as well." (they did that and it lost them a guild)

Frankly I know people are critical of me when I speak up on this but I see it a right to voice my opposition as long as I do it within the Code of Conduct, and as I did not break it with this or other posts, I will keep to speak up until I see in place the same justification requirement that the old system had in the form of 4 signatures to be obtained before the takeover can be finalized. And I would like all those "guild for sale" adverts banned as they just encourage this opportunist guild grabbing...
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6 Dwarf Priest
0
However, unfortunately, the system is rightly in place to protect people from long-standing inactive guild masters, giving higher-ranked characters in a guild a chance to take over after a full 30 days and resume guild leader activities. :-(


I would call a person with a FROZEN account who has not played WoW for 90 days or more "longterm", not an active subscriber who just wanted to go on a holiday.


Had you promoted just one of your real-life friends to any rank higher than those players whom you did not know, this incident would not have occurred


Iluvcritters, the above "blue" quote is exactly what people on this mb have been telling you for about 4 months now.
You actually do not even read posts to which you reply, do you?
You have now posted the exact same wall of text 9 or more times without ever replying to people that take the time and effort to reply to you.
Does the word Netiquette mean anything to you?
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88 Tauren Priest
5305
21/02/2012 15:03Posted by Iluvcritters
See my post in the other thread about making it that a dethrone requires 4 signatures from approving players in the guild

Wow, one i agree with you on, good-job ILC. It would mean there would be more of a consensus when a guild leader was dethroned, but NOT that it wouldnt happen in the first place.

21/02/2012 15:03Posted by Iluvcritters
I've seen a rise of "Guild For Sale" posts on the forums... how many of these are guilds that got grabbed???
Or maybe the way things are now instead of just disbanding guilds when they merge players people are selling them as it leaves something that is quite valuable behind... You seem to see everything interms of "Guild for sale - OMG i bet thats been stolen from some poor, unfortunate, inoccent GM who just happened to be a bit AFK for too long."

Questions I wonder over:
1) if you dethrone a player and then it is found that they were dethroned on day 29 and not day 30, are you going to give a guild back then?
2) will you refund our guild website costs such a dethroned guild leader now has lost?
3) why is it so hard for you to do the same requirement of 4 signatures as with a guild creation?
4) are you removing this tool tip soon because it's an insult for every guild leader who followed it and then got punished: "Bring your friends to Azeroth, but don't forget to go outside Azeroth with them as well." (they did that and it lost them a guild)

1) are you making this up now, where has 29 days come from?

2) that is an auxiliary function, and also available free if you just look around.

3) because youve just come up with it, and it may take a while to implement...

4) do we have to paraphrase everything like smallprint in advert to not get sued by some idiot who didnt realise that coffee is hot, other liquids are wet and peanuts contain nuts!
ok, will apend "(but obviously not for longer than thirty days!)" to that tooltip.
Edited by Dysnomia on 21/02/2012 16:33 GMT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17305
Thanks for your thoughts on this Slaxx. As always, we see your feedback and have taken note.

However, unfortunately, the system is rightly in place to protect people from long-standing inactive guild masters, giving higher-ranked characters in a guild a chance to take over after a full 30 days and resume guild leader activities. Had you promoted just one of your real-life friends to any rank higher than those players whom you did not know, this incident would not have occurred :-(

Hopefully people will become more aware of this mechanic over time.


And to be honest we can copy and paste this replay to every QQ moan on here about people loosing their guilds.
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88 Tauren Priest
5305
21/02/2012 16:59Posted by Spacemonk
And to be honest we can copy and paste this replay to every QQ moan on here about people loosing their guilds.

Dunno mate, I think I'd put it on the front of a guild charter with three or four checkboxes saying
"have you read it - []yes []no"
"are you sure - []yes []no"
"really sure - []yes []no"
"go on then you can have your guild, but you have read that you do need to take a little better care of it, and dont blame us when you loose it, just like your new Ipod that mummy just tutted and bought you another one the very next day."
Edited by Dysnomia on 21/02/2012 17:31 GMT
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100 Night Elf Druid
18300
While it is mostly pointless to answer any of Iluvcritters' posts since she just move on to a different thread without even taking anything anyone answers on board, I want to comment on one thing, again.

21/02/2012 15:03Posted by Iluvcritters
And I say again, if you think if the FIRST member of a guild should not stay away from a guild for 30 days or more, then what about the other up to 999 other members. They can go offline and stay offline for months or even years without you knowing where they have gone. They can go play six months of SWTOR without a care in the world. In a guild there are up to ONE THOUSAND players who make the guild work, so if a guild leader gets demoted after 30 days of being away, then add the automation in so guild members get kicked TOO when offline 30 days or more, and I assure you'll have 90% of the players being guildless tomorrow, and you'll have a riot on your hands from all of them for becoming guildless. Just because it is the creator of the guild, don't treat them like we're something not worth it.


It's up to the guild leader to set the rules for any guild. He can remove people after 30 days of inactivity, 20 days, 10 day, 5 days, 24 hours, whatever. The guild leader already has the tools to kick anyone or everyone from the guild at any given moment. Why should there need to be additional tools that do the same as the existing ones? As long as there is a leadership in the guild it's up to that leadership if and when to deguild members.

However if the guild leader stops playing there are no higher ranks to remove him, no leadership that can step in, since he alone is the highest rank, and thus this tool is needed. Get it? Like Dumpey says, it's an MMO, and a guild is a dynamic community of other players. You can't expect to press pause for weeks on end and return to see everything is the same as it was. Especially not if you have taken on a responsibility to lead your community and you aren't upholding your end of the deal. Becoming a guild leader is not like receiving a sovereign title/rank, where you get it and keep it for life. It's more like a job, if you don't do your job for an extended period of time you better well expect your position to be filled by someone else when you bother to return.

I think you should be so lucky your guildies aren't reading through the uninformed rubbish you post on these forums. Any respect you have would be lost.
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21 Human Paladin
0
21/02/2012 14:02Posted by Takralus
Hopefully people will become more aware of this mechanic over time.
Hopefully someone else will get more Aware that 1 month is WAY to short time period.

as Iluvcritters said :
21/02/2012 15:03Posted by Iluvcritters
I would call a person with a FROZEN account who has not played WoW for 90 days or more "longterm", not an active subscriber who just wanted to go on a holiday.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
11705
Iluvcritters, the above "blue" quote is exactly what people on this mb have been telling you for about 4 months now.
You actually do not even read posts to which you reply, do you?
You have now posted the exact same wall of text 9 or more times without ever replying to people that take the time and effort to reply to you.
Does the word Netiquette mean anything to you?


I reply when I can actually find the posts but I am not going sift thru older posts to just find a specific response. I don't spend all day just on here like I don't spend all day on wow itself.

Any WHEN I do see a response then I DO try to respond. You yourself do foul at times of not listening to counter-arguments just like me just like maybe half the people who use the forums. And don't quote netiquette to a person whose used the internet since before it was the modern internet and it was just bulletin boards all over the place (errmmm mid-80s or so).

As I've said before and say again TO YOU, I witnessed a dethrone under the old system so I know full well how that worked, I also read all blizzard blogs on this site as they appear so knew when it appeared about the dethrone coming in. HOWEVER why am I not allowed to speak up about a system that in my opinion got flaws in it. If no one points out flaws then they never get sorted. Okay take another example, every pvper is always going on about the imbalance in pvp, so if they would need to stop posting about THAT for the reasons you state to me for not posting about the dethrone, then maybe their issues with pvp will never get addressed, so just like they feel entitled to post about the imbalances of pvp so am I entitled to voice my opinion about this feature. And you know what, if you don't like my posts just click Ignore player already. I defended you when a troll was having a go at you, but now you seem to treat what I say as trolling when all I am doing is give an honest opinion.

Oh and btw, you DO realise that Blizzard has said the following:
"Posting TLDR (Too Long, Didn’t Read) is saying you don’t care about a player’s post. Posting L2P (Learn to Play) mocks the player for their skill or experience level rather than provide constructive input on the post itself. Both are considered trolling and will lead to a suspension."
So I would consider your "You have now posted the exact same wall of text 9 or more times" as a convoluted way of saying "too long; didn't read". ONLY people who imply that something is "tl;dr" call stuff wall of text. I think Blizzard with their 5000 word limit has decided what is "too long". And I do know of people who have whispered me in game "love reading your posts as you always write so much useful stuff".

For your information, Dumpey and all those up there who seem to think I moved to another thread.

This what the blue said I was aware of from the day the blog was posted:
21/02/2012 14:02Posted by Takralus
Hopefully people will become more aware of this mechanic over time.


What I am doing is posting my criticisms about it. I seem to see people allowed to post criticisms about MoP, but when it is about a feature affecting guild leaders it is turned into an accusation of spam. Let the forum moderators decide if I am spamming too much about it. And NO I do not post the same crap all the time but the forums DO have a "you must not necro forum posts" rule that I've known about since using the old forums in May 2007. If I was necroing such an old forum post then yeah it would be spam. But a direct criticism in response to someone's post, even a blue OR green post, is my right just like it is your right. Simply if you don't like what I write, then put me on ignore and just don't read any of it.

21/02/2012 16:57Posted by Spacemonk
you are spamming this crud over and over


Then don't read it... no one forces you to do it. Put me on ignore if it bothers you so much that one person cares enough to speak up for possible guild leaders who wake up tomorrow without their guild they worked for so hard...

21/02/2012 18:13Posted by Luria
Why should there need to be additional tools that do the same as the existing ones? As long as there is a leadership in the guild it's up to that leadership if and when to deguild members.


The old system was working why fix what was not broken. Under the old system a player had to JUSTIFY why they were the ones to be allowed to take over a guild. Now any old sod can take over if they just "beat the system". Can say the same question about dethrone as you say about guild kicks. And as for leadership, shouldn't they not be the ones to nominate the replacement for themselves if they are going to be offline a while then? Most guild leaders I know have that in place like I do too, so we DO NOT NEED hand holding from blizzard to keep our guilds going. As for a guild with a leader missing in action 6 months or more, then yeah to do need it.
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