Topic
battleground minimum requirement
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I guess lots of people have come across situations similar to the ones im going to use as examples, but hey...
arathi basin - druid, lvl85 in lvl80 greens and blues WSG - dk lvl 85 in lvl80 greens and blues etc etc (the above are actual examples, and are extreme in their nature, but there are varying degrees of the above situation in most bgs) We have minimum ilevel requirements on dungeons, hcs and raids, so why can there not be something similar introduce for battlegrounds? Make it a minimum resilience figure for example. To waylay the rafts of "how can i get gear" posts...im not talking about people coming into bgs in their top end pve gear, although they are still squishy due to lack of resi, but people being able to basically enter naked. There are crafted armour sets for every class if im not mistaken that will give an ample levels of resilience whilst people *build* up their honour/conquest gear, and they are more viable in bgs than pve gear. Im not elitist, i enjoy pve content as much as pvp content, but in pve...you wouldnt be able to carry through end content a similar geared player....why should you be forced to do the same in pvp? BGs are bracketed, so each bracket could carry different level requirements, or even just apply it to lvl85 ones. Random battlegrounds are pretty much a free for all...some you win, some you lose....thats understood and accepted by the majority of players i think. BUT like i say, when you have a *handicap* of a player with zero resi it becomes unbalanced to the point you may as well not bother, make a camp fire and /cheer as the opposing faction cap yet another base/flag. Rated battlegrounds are a totally different animal anyway and for the purpose of this thread, we arent discussing them, as they are *usually* run by team who gear up before hand - the pvp equivalent of a guild DS run as opposed to a DSLFR. I would be interested to hear other people opinions and suggestions on what could be a viable way of having some minimum requirements for bgs. |
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It's called PUG...
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Edited by Voodun on 22/02/12 13:00 (UTC)
please try to add something constructive, even if criticism, otherwise your post holds no value.
ive already said that random bgs are a free for all, this doesnt mean that there cannot be some minimum requirement. a PVE pug can still take in players that are considered worse geared etc, but the *worse* gear they are using will still meet a requirement for that instance. |
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Edited by Ayun on 22/02/12 13:10 (UTC)
the crafted set is useless and a waste of money when you can enter and farm for better gear and keep your gold. give us honor tokens thats BoA so we can farm gear on our mains instead, ofc they should give the same amout of honor when used as they cost
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Do RBG
Everyone needs to start somewhere |
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then the crafted set is available. i also said rated bgs weren't being considered part of the discussion for the reasons i stated. i realise the itemisation on the crafted arent the best, nor is the resi rating on them, but they are *not* useless in the respect that XXX resi from crafted is better than zero resi from pve gear. BoA tokens are a good idea, but then only apply to people who already have gear, people new to the bg system would still be able to get in bgs with zero resi, and effectively anchor the team |
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I already did, here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3388950759 Even green geared players can contribute pretty well to a team, if they follow these tips. I know, I did it many times on various characters. So I'd say "no" to your idea, basically because it would simply scare off and prevent ppl to go random battlegrounds. |
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introduced BoA tokens and give seperate battleground for people without resi? |
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The only solutions I've seen considering brackets would actually not solve it. If you take resilience, people with great pve raiding gear will have the time of their lives farming those in quest greens/blues, ilevel would not work either because of pvp and pve gear.. If you can suggest something which would be abuse proof, great, but so far the fixes all seem very easy to abuse.
In that sense free pvp gear would be a better solution, or when you enter a pvp environment a standard pvp set or similar things. Downside there is, many people object to it either because it's too easy or because you would lose the sense of actually achieving something and gradually improving your character. It's not working well the way it is now but at the same time solutions brought up here would either not improve things either or would meet a load of resistance. |
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Edited by Ayun on 22/02/12 13:28 (UTC)
ilvl requirement where only people below lets say total ilvl 340 and below 2k resi can join? please mind i mean total ilvl and not equipped with 340. also scrap the 270 honor boost on only random battlegrounds and give it even if you sign up for a specific one, would allow badly geared people to join battlegrounds like AV and IoC for easy honor |
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The problem I think (but I could be wrong) there would be that if you take ilevel equipped, you can change gear when you get in, and when you take overall ilevel, someone might have great pve gear but not so hot pvp gear and still get placed in the "high ilevel" bracket. So basically the system would have to check what the ilevel is on your pvp gear, on your pve gear and whether this is equipped or in your bags. Where would you place those with no or crap pvp gear and pve raidgear? I have no idea tbh. |
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Edited by Voodun on 22/02/12 14:46 (UTC)
please try to add something constructive these are hints and tips and have nothing to do with the aim of the post, which is to discuss the viability of a minimum requirement for battlegrounds gear wise. having a minimum ilvl requirement for pve content has not scared off pve players from running instances, so your summation is invalid as a reference. What will scare people off more, and contribute to the amount of "nerf xx class" threads is people unprepared for battlegrounds getting farmed with no understanding of the why. I really dont understand why it would be such a huge problem. The mechanic exists in game in the PVE parts of the game, so why should it not apply to the PVP sections too? how then people attain this requirement would be for further discussion - ive stated that the craftable gear may be a good entry point....perhaps having a few small questlines for pve people to attain a starter set of pvp gear could be introduced? There are many ways in which achieving a set requirement could be attained. |
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The system works perfectly well as it is.
If it were possible to get a set of crafted gear, I'm sure people would opt for that - but it isn't. Anyway, it only takes a few battles to get fully kitted-out in Ruthless gear. The Random PUGs are for people learning to PvP and they're reasonably well segregated into skill levels. As far as I'm concerned that's good enough. When I join a PUG I don't even bother to look see what gear people are wearing - I don't care. I'm there to have fun, not criticise other people. I don't even care if they don't know the tactics and mill about outside the Keep at IoC wondering how to get in. Or get lost in the tunnel in WSG. Fall of the cliff in AB. Or any of the stupid things everybody does once. What I do care about is people QQing about it endlessly it in bg chat, trying to intimidate others into not playing. |
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heres an example to highlight how i see PVP at the moment, and peoples understanding of it
player x - dings 85, woohoo, grats dude! player x thinks...i want to go kill deathwing, looks at queue - "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!" player x thinks, ah well, ill go do some battlegrounds, looks at queue, gets in - sweet!! player x gets 1 shotted by pvp geared *insert class* - pvp geared player thinks "woohoo free honour" and farms player x. player x gets royally farmed, leaves bg, comes to forum and says "nerf class X" "im a big lvl85 *class* and can kill 20 mobs at once in uldum!, yet here i am in WSG, and a clothie kept killing me! they are obviously overpowered, nerf them" so yes, a minimum requirement for random BGs would be a good and valid thing to have...BUT it has to be coupled with understanding of what that pesky resilience stat is. |
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Edited by Voodun on 22/02/12 14:57 (UTC)
Anxtah, good points and valid from some points of view.
I dont like the endless arguing in bgs, its counter productive and adds an atmosphere to the game as a source of fun. Im fully with you on this. Also - you may not be aware, but there is a set of crafted ilvl377 VICIOUS gear available for ALL classes if im not mistaken, so yeah, a little bit of preparation and you can go in with roughly 2k resi (iirc) http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=minle=377;maxle=377 |
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You're not mistaken - BUT you can't get it. My main is a lok with tailoring - deliberately chosen so I could craft the gear. I did it - but it took forever to farm the materials and the patterns were phenomenally expensive. I recouped much of the cost by selling more sets - but I'm in the game for PvP, not the retail experience. For this DK, I tried to buy a crafted set. Not a hope! A few items were available on the AH at silly prices - I bought them anyway. The rest of the stuff couldn't be got at any price. I asked around and discovered the price of the patterns was utterly ridiculous - it would cost a blacksmith more than the retail value of a dozen sets just to get the patterns - let alone actually craft the items. I ended up selling the materials I'd farmed and just going in greens with a couple of blues. |
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another good idea blasted to dust by blizzard then i guess....
i find crafting gear ridiculously complicated to craft anyway- for the net result, the pvp sets should be available maybe easier than ilvlgodmode pve epic. as a Blacksmith, i have most of the plate stuff, just missing one or two items, but i like to gather recipes for completeness. Ive crafted quite a few sets as well. anyway, back on topic fully - maybe the crafted set isnt such a good viable idea as an entry point into bgs....quested set maybe introduced would be better. player x dings 85, thinks oooh bgs, queues and enters an instanced *choose bg* where there are quests but not other players (pvpve type idea) completes the quests, has a set of entry lvl gear, then can go to *real* bgs there could potentially be players of same/opposing factions doing the quests too etc, mix it up how you will. |
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Tbh I doubt most not too great geared players are the ones complaining on the forums (there will always be exceptions of course). Besides that, as others mentioned, gear is not everything. I rather have someone with not too great gear who understands teamplay than a very geared player who is doing god knows what, god knows where. I have been grouped with both of these "types" too often to feel gear is any evidence of what the bg is going to be like.
If you have a very geared and skilled opposite team while you have an in general poorly geared team, it can be a disadvantage for sure tho. Besides that, I fail to see how anyone can (learn to) pvp while being twoshotted. It would be better if people had a way of getting some gear before hitting 85, not just for the rest of the team's sake but also for their own enjoyment. The gear gap is huge now. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out in MoP with pve gear giving resilience. |
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maybe the crafted set isnt such a good viable idea as an entry point into bgs....quested set maybe introduced would be better. Good idea. It's very similar to the way a DK gets 'graduated' from the early DK-only quests and pops out the end with a full set of blues. But I'd still prefer the crafted set was more accessible - the professions in general are too 'by-the-way'. I'd like to see more useful items being crafted and fewer available solely from dungeons. Especially PvP items - by definition people who want to PvP are less interested in PvE dungeons. |
