|
That was my thought too at first. The thread that got deleted cleared up my naivety there, I can tell you that. Bad apples galore. |
(a) you get grouped with actual players, not bots, in PVP gear, Sure, I am doing rated BGs as well, so what? (c) you typically win, this gets you more honor, more HKs, Well, (c) is a consequence of other points, so you are being a little too quick to call me names. (d) you can try to do PVP achievements, which are much harder to do otherwise, Good, grats, but this doesn't change the fact that many PVP achievements in a random are hopeless. You can only get them accidentally. So, with that, the main issue:
If I am not mistaken you are the one on the complaining side. What gives? |
|
Edited by Vukdar on 24/02/12 08:28 (GMT)
Nobody with a sane mind would join 40 other arseholes that he does not even know, and put up with Raid Warning directions. I do not even want to imagine horror of it if Team Speak would be included.
EEEEEK! I instatly imagine some 16 year old kid that thinks he can play being most vocal in the group, also, people with no sense of humor telling bad jokes is definitely going to happen 24/7. Everybody laughs for some reason, and I do not get what is funny. Oh the drugery. I was once in random bg where we met such premade, where our group was totally random but competent. We wiped them so bad... and the feeling of it was great, as I can imagine atmosphere on their TS and Raid Chat. It was AV. lawl |
|
After giving it some thought, I'm to support Real ID premades. Why is there Real ID anyway, but to allow ppl from different servers to join and organise? Nothing prevents you to try the same. This type of PvP playing requires - teamplay, not stupid soloing, so hell yeah... :-)
|
|
Edited by Zakkar on 24/02/12 08:42 (GMT)
I see your point, Silene. I am not convinced that the bad apples are a majority. If we were to judge from the forums, we'd be forced to conclude that the Alliance is losing 99% of the BGs, and that the Horde is losing 99% of the BGs as well. We know not to accept what is said on the forums at face value. What is said is not completely baseless, but it is not the truth, there are all kinds of weird exaggerations and opinions. Sometimes we can cross-check what the situation really is by summing numbers exposed by the armory. Sometimes we can't. In the case of verifying whether 'most people queue for premades to camp graveyards' or not, we can't. If you think the posts in the deleted thread prove that 'most people queue for premades to camp graveyards' (even though non-deleted threads contain many posts to the contrary), I guess we will just have to disagree. |
The point was that you can "play organized/no bot" BGs in Rated Bgs. Now, I'm against bots, don't get me wrong, but I'm also against 10 coordinated players playing against 10 uncoordinated players. The difference is so big that it's not fun to play. Therefore, I said go play rated BGs if you want organized PvP.
I meant the concept of playing with very very high amount of success is spineless. Basically, what you and such as you do is attack those poor muppets (I enjoy this word) that don't even know the concept of a CC, let alone coordinated play, and then you farm them. This, for me, is spineless. If all of you are so tough and good and whatnot, why don't you all have "hero of..." titles? Ah right... when you play against people who are also coordinated, you're not so good right?... Ergo, spineless. (not talking about you, as I don't see your main, but overall the people who join these)
None are hopeless. You have to work for them. But again, most people don't want to work for something, but rather just take a shortcut. (something you see IRL too) What this shortcut is doing tho, it's destroying the fun factor for those that don't use it.
Don't know what you point is.
U have rated BGs. |
|
|
I'm not actually saying that as I have no idea. I'm aware of that and I don't want to do those injustice who like premades for the other reasons you described. I get that and I'm not not trying to spoil their fun altho I still fail to see how anyone can consider it competitive or fair pvp with premades versus randoms. But even if it'd be the minority who derives sadistic pleasure from gy camping lemmings, even if it'd be 1, it'd be 1 too many. And it's not just 1. I can't accept, respect or condone that kind of behaviour. It crosses a line of respect, honor and consideration when you treat people like that, when you laugh and gloat and when you think it's cool to don't give a damn about someone else. I'll be damned if I just sit back and let that happen. |
|
Edited by Zakkar on 24/02/12 09:35 (GMT)
The point was that you can "play organized/no bot" BGs in Rated Bgs. Now, I'm against bots, don't get me wrong, but I'm also against 10 coordinated players playing against 10 uncoordinated players. The difference is so big that it's not fun to play. Look, I play rated BGs. I don't know if you do. Perhaps you don't, because if you did, you'd know that the queue times are much longer. You'd also be sympathetic to the point that you tend to plan rated BGs in advance just so you have the people you want, not too different from how you tend to plan raids. You ask people to be online at a certain date and time. Real ID 'PUGs' are something in between rated BGs and random BGs, you generally go with whoever is online. Chances are, you will be able to do real ID 'PUGs' more often than rated BGs. Suggesting to play rated BGs instead of real ID 'PUGs' is like suggesting: only raid with the guild, don't use LFG / LFR. For many people, the guild just doesn't raid as much as they want it to raid. In the case of rated BGs this is exacerbated by the fact that you have to play against someone else and other people don't play as much as you want them to play either. With rated BGs sometimes you can wait for a team that would be an appropriate opponent for yours rating-wise for the entire evening, and not get it. So people turn to LFG / LFR and they turn to real ID 'PUGs'. I get that you don't like it, but, well, I am not telling anyone how they should play, so why you think you can do it...
My point is that you are berating people running real ID premades for wanting everything to be free and effortless, yet it is you who are complaining about not being able to win BGs. People whom you are berating are not complaining about anything. There is an irony here. |
I am not telling anything to anyone. I still do random BGs because I enjoy it. If I see a premade on the other side, I stay and fight because there were times when we won even though they were a "premade". You have to understand that if it were me alone, I'd not write a single thing on these forums concerning RealID Bgs. I don't mind fighting people with a clue...actually, I prefer it. I'm just trying to show you how other people feel when they come up against someone organized. I've been on a receiving end of a BG where people gave up even before the gates come up. Now, it's their choice and they can do whatever they want, but by doing so they are destroying my game as I can't fight alone vs 10 organized people. Hell, I can't even fight against 2 organized people alone. So basically, I fight alone because my teammates are AFK because of the premade on the other side. Which then comes down to, the premade on the other side is making me not enjoy my BG experience as much as I usually do. Therefore, I say, if you want to play organized BGs, go play rated (and suck up the Q times). What I don't understand is, you already have a group of 10 people, you're on voice chat, why go for regular BGs and not Rated? BC of a 10 min Q? Give me a break. You go randoms so you can "destroy" pugs and feel glorious. (again, not you, but most of the people going in there)
Again, I have nothing to complain about beside the above mentioned example. Personally, I don't care who I fight against, but when my entire team gives up before the start of the match, well, then this ain't fun for me either you know? I got almost 60% win in randoms with 2k BGs played. More than most of the people on the forums. I have the only achievement I ever wanted (Battlemaster) and I did it with my own work. I didn't "cheat" at it. The only reason why I said people want stuff for free, is because you mentioned that people go there for achievements and that it's hard to make them on your own. I called bullsh!t, and can prove it... bc I did it. I never once, in my 3 years of forum posting, complained about not winning. Losing is as much as part of the game as winning. Therefore, I accept it, try to learn from it, and try again. |
|
only thing funny is your ego getting buffed on random people. |
|
|
rock be my random bg friend !
|
Ovisno o tome koga i što točno špijuniraš ;) |
|
|
idemo da razvaljujemo imaš poket hilera :)
|
|
Deal with it
|
|
I'm sorry, I am not sure I get your point here - does that mean because they bought all this stuff that they are are quite entitled do whatever they want and ruin the game for many other people? Perhaps I read it wrong... |
|
Gordon Bennet! don't give people ideas! The latest offer from the Blizzard store - buy the new battleground mount and get a free weapon of your choice with a guaranteed 50k crit and 9.9k resil. Show those noob retards how it's done! (additional FREE 5000 HP until the end of Feb) |
|
Edited by Zakkar on 24/02/12 11:29 (GMT)
(That's for Silene, don't know why the quote doesn't work:)
I'm not actually saying that as I have no idea (... of the ratio of people who queue for premades to camp graveyards ...) I disagree. That's like suggesting that we destroy the Internet, because some people use it to distribute child prnography. Ratios matter. (That's for Rock:)
Nobody is on voice chat. We can't do rated BGs since our ratings are vastly different. Queues for rated BGs are not 10 minutes by far. Playing against randoms is easy, but still interesting, much more interesting than doing a random instance. I am not telling anything to anyone. [...] OK, then sorry for misreading you. I get that people who end up fighting against a premade feel badly overpowered. Now, unless the premade does the equivalent of camping a graveyard, I don't think that's too bad (I have been on the side of randoms against a premade as well, and, like you say, that's a useful experience), but that's not the point. The point is: in PVP, no matter what you do, people will *always* find ways to feel badly overpowered. Case in point, what do you suggest Blizzard do with regards to real ID premades? Change the API they expose to add-ins so that Preform AV Enabler no longer works and one can only queue as a group of 5? Well, a group of 5 is enough to roflstomp a 10v10 BG, so these will still be roflstomped. If it becomes popular to queue in groups of 5, the roflstomping will extend towards all other BGs, these groups of 5 will do that. Then what? Lower the limit to 3, or disallow queuing as a group? Chances are, people will find a way around it. If they don't, they will find other ways to get an upper hand (bots, abuse of PVE gear and whatnot). This is an endless road to nowhere. The real solution to minimize the effect of premades vs randoms is not to make premades more difficult to organize by disabling add-ons (that's difficult, people will likely find ways to work around the limitations), but rather to make premades much more popular so that everyone is in one. Here, the ultimate recipe of fighting against a premade: join your own! |
|
|
Gordon Bennet! don't give people ideas! best forum post this year ! |
|
|
Edited by Silene on 24/02/12 11:55 (GMT)
They do. I've given rationally thought out reasons why I think it's unbalancing. I agree, not here, but I have elsewhere. I feel random bg should remain accessible and enjoyable for random people who do not wish to or can't join premades. It's not that I can't join a premade myself but as long as a lot of people queue either alone or with one or two friends I'm not going to. If I had the guarantee of only facing other premades I would. There is an unfair advantage when you play in a premade versus a random group. Don't insult either my or your own intelligence by saying there isn't. It's not a guaranteed win but it gets rather close to it. Not competitive. Besides that, some morals do matter. Some decency and consideration do matter. It's what makes communities a healthy place to be a part of. If I'd take your internet analogy, I'd say: ban WoW! I'm not, I'm just saying the behaviour I described should not be tolerated (which does happen on the internet too, esp with your example of child !@#$). |
But the problem is, I don't want to play against people that are not a "challenge". And joining a premade does not guarantee that I will play against another premade which then means that the match will be 4mins long, I'll end up with a 15:0 kill/death ratio and absolutely no fun besides laughing at stupid mistakes my opponents do. When you're in a group of people who listen, make coordinated attacks and actually go for the effing flag(even without using voice communication) you are already in a big advantage over the randoms because, well, let's face it... in average, there are 2 bots, 2 midfield gankers (who die miserably time and time again), 2 severely undergeared people and 4 "normal" players. So, it's basically a 5vs10 (i counted the 2 undergeared as 1 person). Which, in my opinion, isn't fun. Now, I'm not against a premade vs premade that the horde warrior (Mart something, can't remember) suggested. I believe it's an awesome idea (and tbh, I said I'd join as soon as they find an Alliance "leader"). But, playing in a premade vs randoms isn't something that I find fun. So, playing in premades is a no. Playing in randoms is mostly a no also because of the premades on the other side (or actually, Alliance giving up). You see my predicament? In the end, I agree with this;
|
