Topic
Destruction & Burning Embers clarified by Blizzard
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Edited by Archaos on 22/02/12 02:18 (GMT)
Answer: Basically, you build embers with some spells, and then spend those embers with Soul Fire, Ember Tap, or Fire and Brimstone. What do you think about this? Apparently each ember takes 10 casts of Incinerate to build. I'm not sure I like that Fire & Brimstone requires Embers, this means that we won't be able to use it on demand or at the start of combat, unless we store more than 1 ember but that isn't likely since we'll be expending them straight away on Soul Fire. Having more than 1 ember is just going to be a DPS loss. Basicly Destro AoE isn't going to be as good as it looked. At least the self damage seems lower than I expected, and I guess we'll be limited to 3 full Embers maximum. |
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Edited by Archaos on 22/02/12 02:22 (GMT)
They also stated how they see Destruction's rotation being:
Keep in mind this is all subject to change, but here is how Destruction flows at the moment: So what it looks like, is the Chaotic Energy is going to effectively transform our mana bars into rogue-style Energy bars. I'm a little concerned by the way they described the 'rotation'. From what they said it seemed like gaining embers will be quite a slow process. It basicly looks like we are limited to spamming Incinerate & Conflagrate for the vast majority of combat and will only reach "full power" after several minutes. I also wonder how the Ember system is going to work in PVP... Also, where the hell is Chaos Bolt?! |
It basicly looks like we are limited to spamming Incinerate & Conflagrate for the vast majority of combat and will only reach "full power" after several minutes. While ye, it does look like we'll only really be casting incinerate and conflag with the odd immolate, dark soul, felflame etc inbetween i dont see it taking several minutes to get to "full power" ignoring any haste and backdraft from conflag incinerate will have a 2sec cast and generate 1/10th of an ember per cast, so thats only 20secs to get 1 ember, obv will be lower with haste n backdraft so seems to be okay for burst tbh. As for pvp, i could see it becoming a bit like spam fel flame until conflag comes off cd in which case incin is cast 3 times under backdraft etc, as felflame is instant building 1 ember wud only take ~10secs. and ye... where the hell is chaos bolt :( |
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Edited by Solfilia on 22/02/12 06:24 (GMT)
With zero crit chance, but is there anyone with 0 crit chance? Especially with destruction's Dark Soul (which shows how much important is crit for destro) it's going to take less than 10 casts. However we're not casting incinerate at non-stop rate so it might take half a minute for 1 ember but not several minutes. Something that confuses me is that crit is going to be much better than haste? What about mastery? All stats seems to be in synergy with each other.
Can't say that right now. According to what Kaivax said about using all mana then switching to Burning Ember, I might say spells that uses mana are much more efficient and the only reason we switch to Burning ember is to let our mana to regen or the embers are capped or we have and ember and instant Soul Fire. 1. Soul Fire So Basically there's a chance that first Soul Fire is instant and triggers the increase in cast time, then we cast Soul Fire with about >8 secs cast which lets the mana to refill. Edit: Looked at destro mastery and now wondering if we can use more than 1 ember for a spell? that will change the rotation Kaivax mentioned, or it's just part of the old tooltip which is going to change with this model. As long as the warlock never lets her mana bar fill up and burn her embers, she's maximizing damage.
That's what it looks. At the end I hope they complete it during alpha and perfect it at beta so we don't have to deal with it at release. |
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Our hope is that the Destruction Warlock will attract players who are interested in a playstyle that rewards spending resources at the right time, rather than constantly casting. This seems strange, everyone I know who loves Destro because it's fast paced and constantly casting... |
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So, as it is now, it looks like the priority list will look something like:
Immolate Conflagrate Soul Fire (every 30 seconds, timing it with the destructive influence so it's just below the gcd) Shadowburn<20% Incinerate Of course, that's just the main spells, there's the obligatory CoE and CDs that need to go up near the top. I wonder how much dps RoF will do, and whether it'll be worth it to cast it even on 1 target, since it's instant, not Chanelled and seems to do more damage than incin. Thinking about the embers, It would take at most 30 seconds to rack up a full one, which is when SF loses the double cast time debuff. In fact, when you think about haste caps, which (considering incin is a 2 second cast) will be quite low, I don't think it'll be much less than 30 seconds, unless they scale the SF debuff with haste. |
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This seems strange, everyone I know who loves Destro because it's fast paced and constantly casting... Exactly. With Burning Embers and Chaotic Energy coming up I thought that Destruction would no longer be restrained by mana and could chaincast carelessly, getting up to 10 embers every 20 seconds and dumping them as soon as they become too dangerous to handle. The model they're presenting is very disappointing... |
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I applaud the Demons of Blizzard for pursuing a new direction and experimenting with a new model, instead of just permutations on other class abilities. One of my biggest complaints has been reducing the Warlock class to "just another spellcasting class", which has been the trend since they wing-clipped us to create space for DKs.
That said, I truly hope that this new model is developed for a PvP scenario in first hand, PvE in second hand. I'm very curious how this pans out. |
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Maybe it looks disappointing now, but it does look very interesting to me. It feels fresh, it feels more thought through and it feels more Alpha. Just remind: they have shown to listen to players in the past and from what I know they still listen to feedback. The changes they have shown already are quite significant to what they showed when they first released the MoP talent calculator. My opinion? The Embers need a bit of tweaking, 1/10th ember per incinerate seems reasonable, there must be a philosophy behind it and with time it'll become more refined. Just wondering what the next step will be, and where Chaos Bolt is staying. Perhaps make Chaosbolt replace Soulfire for destruction? Or use it in another way to generate always 2/10th ember? Ideas, ideas... |
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Edited by Rmpz on 22/02/12 12:21 (GMT)
Seems like an awful system, boring rotation in PvE.
Can't really see any uses for ember other than healing in pvp, but to be fair some of our spells cost far more than ember will heal and it takes incredible long to gain the embers. Guess affliction is gonna be top pvp spec once again, kinda hope the dmg atleast will make destro viable. Cant see how destro is gonna get a 4 sec hard cast soul fire off in a pvp situation. Rather stupid the cool stuff are only used for mana conservation as a freaking lock with life tap. I really expected it to be about huge burst and gambling with your health instead of just building up to get a few free cast soul fires -.- Not to mention who on earth is gonna let a destro hardcast 5/10 incinerate on a immolated target in a 3v3/5v5 scenario o.O |
^this. |
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-Levistus. They moved the 2x cast time if hit over 25% hp to be Demonology as well as granting it a permanent -2s cast to have it act like it does now but slightly refined.
Anyway: Getting up to 10 embers every 20 seconds and dumping them as soon as they become too dangerous to handle.-Phoenexis -Rmpz I agree, when then first announced the idea I definetly had something more dynamic in mind than casting a Soul Fire once in awhile... For it to be more like building up embers paired with its risk to be albe to launch high bursts with not too long ramp up that we were in control of. Embers would be a huge dmg bonus that you built up, not an "eclipse" pendlum were we just use it since we have to in order to regain mana and then repeat while pretending its complex, responsive and cool... Though its too early to complane and I like that they are trying something new as almost anything will be better than it is now in PvP and once tested and refined this could very well play out to be a bursty and responsive spec in PvP. |
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One thing for certain, they will never be able to match the flow and utility and perfection of the WotLK Destruction tree in 3.3.5
http://www.gamestool.net/tc/wow335/warlockt.php Pushback protection, useful nether protection, awsome soulburn, pyroclasm instead of Imp SF... List goes on, this paired with old Fel Armor, the Fire / Spellstones, the freedom of pet and Drain mana among others. This expirence will for me most likely never be rivaled, the feeling was unmatched. |
Where did you get that information? On the talent calculator SF is a base spell that always doubles cast time for 30 seconds (above 25% hp), regardless of spec. I was hoping it might actually mean SF hits like an absolute monster and they wanted to prevent it become the filler. |
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The worst / best part is Destructive Influence, with no value anymore ( è_é ) best regards GoSacrif...
Devs suck. |
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Edited by Juste on 22/02/12 14:51 (GMT)
This does not look good for me for PvP at all?
10 Incinerates or Fel flames without crits to get off one Soul Fire or Ember Heal? What? Arcane Mages get "Full Power" with 4 casts. ... |
The spell itself states double cast time above 25% though. The demo one could mean it doubles the already doubled cast time, or it could even, as you say, be limited to demo. Until they sort it out though, with the correct wording, i'm not going to simply accept that it's one spec, especially given blizzards track record of ignoring things, not updating tooltips correctly or just flat out screwing up spells. |
This does not look good for me for PvP at all? Read again. As it looks now warlocks seem incredibly OP as destro since Ember Tap has no cooldown. You can easily get a Incinerate cast and then just instnatly heal yourself for 20% health between each incinerate. As it looks now the Destruction system is very weird, it's too few spells to start of. And the rotation just seems wrong. I was hoping to see a system where you built up embers greatly increasing your damage but starting to hurt yourself alot(3-4% health every sec is alot of damage taken though) and if you stacked max the damage you dealt would be severe but you'd also be killing yourself quite alot. The embers would then be dumped through the means of Soulfire and Conflagrate. I like embertap though. What I don't like is not having Life Tap for PvP where you might be oom but have no embers and a stupid mana regen. Warlocks have always been a class which suffers from mana problems but sacrifice their health to not have them. Compare that to casters today who passively get mana from their abilities. Destro needs more spells in it's rotation, and not dots but a reintroduced Chaos Bolt which could do something drastic. Chaos Bolt could award 2/4 Burning Embers when hit on a target when you aren't maxed. But when you're maxed at Burning Embers Chaos Bolt could consume all Burning Embers to deal significant damage. This would allows you to dump burning embers quickly when you're mana is almost full and you have 10 burning embers on you. Getting of ~7 Incinerates to stack up 10 embers should take no less than 10 seconds. I have a hard time seeing warlocks going oom in 10 sec or we'll have some serious problems. |
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Edited by Juste on 22/02/12 15:11 (GMT)
You read again. Casting incinerate gives you 1/10 Ember. NOT 1 Ember.
Ember Tap – costs 1 ember. |
