So... how much expertise does my mage need?

90 Human Mage
16305
Question sound stupid? Not as stupid as the words that will make it a valid one in MoP!

Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.
Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
Expertise will be listed as a percentage, just like hit, instead of having an intermediary stat.
We are normalizing hit with expertise, so that 1% of each stat will require the same amount of rating.
We are normalizing melee and spell hit, so that spell hit is equal to miss plus dodge.

Also, in other news:
- No more spell resistance, and consequently no more spell penetration
- Resilience renamed (to "PvP Defense" or somesuch) and everyone has some base resilience, even when naked
- New stat ("PvP Power") that only increases damage done to other players, or healing done in PvP. Suck it PvE gear in PvP, and the opposite!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4544194

Oh, and the unofficial note?
- Hybrids now have three ratings to use to get their spells hit capped. We did so enjoy mages and warlocks selling their souls for hit cap in T11 content.
Edited by Cinondra on 02/03/2012 02:48 GMT
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13700
Hurray for gear with hit and expertise.
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90 Human Mage
14620
I had made the, possibly stupid, assumption that Expertise just wouldn't count for us. Maybe cloth just won't be itemised with Expertise?
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13700
Even if it's not, we can still reforge and get it, which probably will be the case in the first raid tier to get hit capped.
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As soon as the pre-MoP patch hits, we'll only need 15 % hit for our spells. REJOICE! We get a few weeks with extra stats and less reforging to hit!
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90 Human Mage
16305
02/03/2012 19:51Posted by Frosticles
Maybe cloth just won't be itemised with Expertise?

Probably so. As Ticky said, if we have a hit + x item, we can reforge x to expertise, much like hybrids can add hit or spirit to an item that already has the other.

Hit items still need to be more common than they were in T11 content though, sick of major hit cap problems because omfg hit is useless to priest healers so we can't put it on items but have some spirit m8s.
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also apparently spell hit and melee hit are becoming one and the same, so gonna be fun to see if they scale back the rating requirements per point of hit or if it is gonna stay the same as it is now, WTB draenei racial being raid wide again (well group wide but generally u had 1 per group anyway), also, just out of curiosity, does anybody know whether MoP will introduce the ilvl squish or has there nothing been said about it other than "it is something we are looking at"?
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13700
03/03/2012 08:52Posted by Rógoth
just out of curiosity, does anybody know whether MoP will introduce the ilvl squish or has there nothing been said about it other than "it is something we are looking at"?


There's been said lots more about it, and they even used fancy pancy graphs and funny lvl 90 and lvl 100 items to back up the reason why they are doing this.
As I understood it, it's pretty final, but we never know do we!
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90 Human Mage
16305
The sublime beauty of this? You know it? Youuuuuuuuuuu knooooooooow iiiiiiiiiiiiit?

Human isn't +0 DPS anymore! As long as you don't use a staff.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11335
Well, the way I see it, it should work like this:

– Melee get enough hit to cap melee miss (ie. 7'5%) and then expertise to cap dodge (also 7'5%) = 15%
– Melee specs that use spells in their rotation (eg. Enhancement shamans) only need to get 7'5% hit and 7'5% expertise, instead of gearing around both caps (ie. current situation). That is, hit will cap their melee miss, expertise will cap their dodge, and the combined result of hit+expertise will cap their spell miss.
– Hunters actually need to get expertise because ranged attacks will be dodged. Right now they can go by with a measly 8% hit, which is rather unfair compared to the requirements other classes are saddled with. So again 7'5% hit + 7'5% expertise for a total 15%.
– Casters only get hit rating to cap spell miss = 15% (I imagine you could potentially use expertise to accomplish the same thing, since it also affects spell miss, but you're unlikely to see that on cloth, because there are no melee cloth wearers).

Bottom line, you need the same rating for 1% hit/expertise, so casters, melee and hunters will have to spend the same amount of secondary stats before they can turn to crit, haste or mastery. This is a fine example of good normalisation.
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90 Goblin Warrior
10355
Enjoy.
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90 Undead Warlock
17240
I think this change is made for melee classes that also use spells like Enh shamans DKs and prot/retri paladins.
As mage you won't be affected, you'll still get capped from HIT stat.
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90 Troll Mage
9960
I think this change is made for melee classes that also use spells like Enh shamans DKs and prot/retri paladins.
As mage you won't be affected, you'll still get capped from HIT stat.


Imagine an item with, let's say, hit+haste. You could reforge the haste to expertise, and get double hit from one item. So it'll make for an easier time to get the hitcap in the first couple weeks of the expansion.
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85 Human Mage
12685
/facepalm
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90 Human Mage
16305
03/03/2012 21:43Posted by Ellesmere
Bottom line, you need the same rating for 1% hit/expertise, so casters, melee and hunters will have to spend the same amount of secondary stats before they can turn to crit, haste or mastery. This is a fine example of good normalisation.

Yeah I spotted that too. The only thing in question is if dual wielders will still need more hit to cap white attacks.
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90 Night Elf Mage
15600
03/03/2012 15:53Posted by Cinondra
Human isn't +0 DPS anymore! As long as you don't use a staff.

That made me realise that as long as spell penetration is gone and spell resistance gear is pretty much gone too, the racial +resistance bonuses might be redesigned. So might +expertise bonuses as they make humans awesome not only pvp-wise, but also in pve. Just think about priests - they'll have a free pvp-trinket, +spirit AND +expertise with maces! Too much good stuff for one race imo.
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90 Human Mage
16305
You forgot daggers =)
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85 Human Mage
7545
05/03/2012 12:28Posted by Cinondra
You forgot daggers =)


Swords ;) (if you were refering to the human racial atleast).

On a side note the PVP stats seem to contradict themselves.

They give baseline pvp dmg reduction because starting pvp without pvp gear feels to "weak" since you get utterly destroyed in seconds without standing a chance by people who do have PvP gear.

Then they go on about how they are introducing PvP power (which is present on PvP gear) which boosts the dmg done to players, pretty much negating the reason for introducing PvP defense in the first place; People with PvP gear will still easiliy destroy those with PvE gear.

Or am I just missing something here?
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05/03/2012 13:00Posted by Viviane
Or am I just missing something here?


I think it's a balance issue. Of course people in PvE gear will be weaker, no doubt about it, but we have yet to see the actual numbers of these stats.
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85 Human Mage
7545
05/03/2012 13:06Posted by Zhell
Or am I just missing something here?


I think it's a balance issue. Of course people in PvE gear will be weaker, no doubt about it, but we have yet to see the actual numbers of these stats.


True that =)
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