Frustrated... QQQ

90 Undead Warrior
8210
Last evening 2v2 was one of the most annoying in about 6 yrs I play this game. At about 1600-1700 mmr we played 4 games, lost all. Got disc priest + frost mage, frost mage + fire mage, resto sham + retri (OK we screwed up that one I admit), and... another disc priest + another frost mage. On top of that, matches were pretty long, and last match we played was even over half an hour. Then my healer just left and went offline.

Yea, I know. I know what both frost and fire mages are in PvP, I know even a half-decent mage can easily toy with a warrior, I know warriors are in the worst PvP state since s5... I know all that. I also know Blizzard don't balance 1v1, nor 2v2. But after 2 mil subscribers lost and 600 employees to fire soon, maybe it's a good time to start.
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85 Orc Shaman
6845
02/03/2012 07:24Posted by Lidoric
Yea, I know. I know what both frost and fire mages are in PvP, I know even a half-decent mage can easily toy with a warrior, I know warriors are in the worst PvP state since s5... I know all that. I also know Blizzard don't balance 1v1, nor 2v2. But after 2 mil subscribers lost and 600 employees to fire soon, maybe it's a good time to start.


Soooo, mages could pretty much hard countered warriors for over 7 years in this game, but you are saying they are doing something wrong and that is why they lost 2 million subscribers? It's been that way for 7 years bro, better get used to it.

On a general note, we are sort of in a bad shape at the moment, but you shouldn't have too much problems until high ratings. Though mage healer teams might make you want to pull your hair out.
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90 Undead Warrior
8210
02/03/2012 08:39Posted by Kensin
Soooo, mages could pretty much hard countered warriors for over 7 years in this game, but you are saying they are doing something wrong and that is why they lost 2 million subscribers?


Nope, I said maybe the idea of not balancing 1v1 and 2v2 was bad. Not easy to find a healer, even harder to find a decent 3v3. Back in old days all played 5v5, but today? Almost nobody.
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85 Orc Shaman
6845
02/03/2012 08:49Posted by Lidoric
Soooo, mages could pretty much hard countered warriors for over 7 years in this game, but you are saying they are doing something wrong and that is why they lost 2 million subscribers?


Nope, I said maybe the idea of not balancing 1v1 and 2v2 was bad. Not easy to find a healer, even harder to find a decent 3v3. Back in old days all played 5v5, but today? Almost nobody.


Is it bad?

Most of the people who play this game don't even pvp. When you're balancing something it mostly has an impact on PvE among lots of other things (other classes etc). So it's not easy doing that. For instance go ahead and throw out a suggestion, how would you buff warriors so as to have them able to compete with a mage 1v1 without having any other impact on class balance pve or pvp.
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90 Undead Warrior
8210
Is it bad?


Yes. I can imagine how hard must be to balance 10 (x3) classes, but imo, to give up the very idea was bad.

Most of the people who play this game don't even pvp.


And why? 'Cos' it's hard, harder than PvE, and most people are just frightened. It's common knowledge PvP is totally imbalanced 1v1 and 2v2, and even 3v3 things are not perfect. Back in old days it was very easy to find a new healer, new arena teams and to make BG premades. Today it's different, it's a lot harder, at least on my server.

When you're balancing something it mostly has an impact on PvE among lots of other things (other classes etc). So it's not easy doing that.


Nobody expected Blizz to make miracles, but to give up the very notion of balancing 1v1 and 2v2 was a bad decision. Resulting by less people playing PvP.

For instance go ahead and throw out a suggestion, how would you buff warriors so as to have them able to compete with a mage 1v1 without having any other impact on class balance pve or pvp.


If we are talking about mages, I think all can easily agree too many CC, especially too many slows and snares, are the main problem. Even Blizz recently stated something like "we know mages have too much control in PvP atm". (And did nothing, as usual.) Taking away at least one of these abilities off mages, would not impact PvE. For instance, Shattered Barrier.
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85 Orc Shaman
6845
Yes. I can imagine how hard must be to balance 10 (x3) classes, but imo, to give up the very idea was bad.


Most people wouldn't agree with you in my opinion. It is impossible to balance every class for 1v1 and 2v2, it has never really been balanced, in 2v2 you usually could decide the outcome of a match when u saw the comps you're facing (unless you severely outplay or get outplayed).



02/03/2012 09:53Posted by Lidoric
And why? 'Cos' it's hard, harder than PvE


Depends on what you're talking about 2200+ arena ? yes it is quite a bit harder than PvE. 1700 arena? no that isn't harder than heroic pve content. I basically got to ~1850 rating with our retarded team of Arms Warrior/Fury Warrior/Disc Priest by simply facerolling.

PvE does in fact take skill, most of you PvPers don't realise this but co-ordinating 10/25 people isn't actually a walk in the park either. And that is why you don't see 90% of the people killing hc madness yet (i pulled that number out of my !@#, didn't actually check the % but it's pretty low).





02/03/2012 09:53Posted by Lidoric
Nobody expected Blizz to make miracles, but to give up the very notion of balancing 1v1 and 2v2 was a bad decision. Resulting by less people playing PvP.


The other reasoning behind balancing for 3v3 is it is a much more balanced setup in general. That is why it is used in tournaments and what-not.



02/03/2012 09:53Posted by Lidoric
Taking away at least one of these abilities off mages, would not impact PvE. For instance, Shattered Barrier.


Shattered barrier already shares DR with CoC root. I'm pretty sure any mage can beat you by losing a 2second root mate. So you didn't really balance it, you're still getting countered by a mage.
Edited by Kensin on 02/03/2012 10:16 GMT
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90 Undead Warrior
8210
Most people wouldn't agree with you in my opinion.


So you're saying most people agree with classes being imbalanced? Thats pretty unbelievable tbh.

Depends on what you're talking about 2200+ arena ? yes it is quite a bit harder than PvE. 1700 arena? no that isn't harder than heroic pve content. I basically got to ~1850 rating with our retarded team of Arms Warrior/Fury Warrior/Disc Priest by simply facerolling.


Are you? Why don't I have such 2 retarded faceroll friends... can you lend 'em to me? :-)

PvE does in fact take skill, most of you PvPers don't realise this but co-ordinating 10/25 people isn't actually a walk in the park either. And that is why you don't see 90% of the people killing hc madness yet (i pulled that number out of my !@#, didn't actually check the % but it's pretty low).


I played a lot of PvE in Wrath up to LK, on other char ofc. It was not easy, it takes skill, but imo it was easier than PvP in literally every way. Most people show up. Most people listen and learn boss after a while, then just rinse and repeat. A lot less stress, nobody gets beaten nor humilated by other player. (If somebody is rude, gets kicked out of raid.) All in all, a lot of hard work, but far more civilised.

The other reasoning behind balancing for 3v3 is it is a much more balanced setup in general. That is why it is used in tournaments and what-not.


Imo the main reason for giving up 1v1 and 2v2 balancing was, erm, Blizz's lazyness. They had 12 000 000 players - they could, and even now still can, impose their own rules. Take it or leave it, I know, but hey, I'm a paying customer. It's my right to QQ as much as I want :-)

Shattered barrier already shares DR with CoC root. I'm pretty sure any mage can beat you by losing a 2second root mate. So you didn't really balance it, you're still getting countered by a mage.


I said yesterdays matches were long. That last one arena, both priest and mage were oom like 2 times, but every time they managed to reset the !@#$%^- game. You know why? Because ot that extra snares and infinitely CC.
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85 Worgen Warrior
5700
02/03/2012 11:13Posted by Lidoric
Imo the main reason for giving up 1v1 and 2v2 balancing was, erm, Blizz's lazyness.


Lawl.
3v3 is by far the most played bracket the better players played/plays in, it's almost impossible to balance all classes/specs to be viable in every comp in every bracket. So they prioritise



02/03/2012 11:13Posted by Lidoric
I said yesterdays matches were long. That last one arena, both priest and mage were oom like 2 times, but every time they managed to reset the !@#$%^- game. You know why? Because ot that extra snares and infinitely CC.


Here's the thing, if mages were to be nerfed in cc/snares/whatever in top tier game they'd be destroyed. Imagine having dispellers that has control over almost everything and can see it coming and get in 0.2 dispells. If blizzard kept debuff protection like they had in wotlk I could see a couple of nerfs working, but when there's literally no debuff protection for them they'll get destroyed in top tier game
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90 Undead Warrior
8210
Lawl.
3v3 is by far the most played bracket the better players played/plays in, it's almost impossible to balance all classes/specs to be viable in every comp in every bracket. So they prioritise


Prioritise, such a nice word. Let's wait for another 2 milion subs to drop, we'll see what "priority" will Blizz have then... :-)

Here's the thing, if mages were to be nerfed in cc/snares/whatever in top tier game they'd be destroyed...


I can trust you on that. But tell me, why is it better to destroy warriors in top tier game, then mages?
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Mages need a nerf, even when i was in greens last week gearing up i still facerolled melee, granted it was in BGs but 40k shatters in 308 greens is just lol.

Kensin and swagger are the same person btw, he got banned from the forums on his druid, he just likes to start flame wars ignore him.
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85 Orc Shaman
6845
Lawl.
3v3 is by far the most played bracket the better players played/plays in, it's almost impossible to balance all classes/specs to be viable in every comp in every bracket. So they prioritise


Prioritise, such a nice word. Let's wait for another 2 milion subs to drop, we'll see what "priority" will Blizz have then... :-)

Here's the thing, if mages were to be nerfed in cc/snares/whatever in top tier game they'd be destroyed...


I can trust you on that. But tell me, why is it better to destroy warriors in top tier game, then mages?


Well you know that's my view, I am not a Blizzard employee so I couldn't tell you exactly but the way I see it, it's almost impossible to balance EVERY class for 1v1 and 2v2 wouldn't you agree? I most games like these some classes will counter others, not much getting around that.

And why mages and not warriors? I have no answer to that sadly, warriors were a bit too strong at the start of Cata and then they just nerfed them a bit too much, and never really went back on it, I don't know why either. Don't think they'll do much on it now, probably figure they have so many different mechanics in MoP anyway and try to balance them around there? Just a theory, I don't know.

02/03/2012 11:41Posted by Bluetube
Kensin and swagger are the same person btw, he got banned from the forums on his druid, he just likes to start flame wars ignore him.


How do you gather that lmfao? You are claiming I am having a discussion on the forum with myself using alts? That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

My druid got banned so I'm posting on this, that part you got correct. And where in this thread did you see me flaming anyone? I only flame people if they are thickheaded idiots.
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did i say this thread ? why did your druid have its posting rights removed? if you dont start flame wars....

you tend to force your OWN oppion on everyone elce and nobody elces matters. when someone expresses there own oppion and you dont like it you resort to insulting peoples arena rating..
Edited by Bluetube on 02/03/2012 12:29 GMT
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85 Orc Shaman
6845
did i say this thread ? why did your druid have its posting rights removed? if you dont start flame wars....


I said I only flame thickheaded idiots, I never said I don't flame, please try to keep up, it's not rocket science.



02/03/2012 12:25Posted by Bluetube
you tend to force your OWN oppion on everyone elce and nobody elces matters. when someone expresses there own oppion and you dont like it you resort to insulting peoples arena rating..


I don't FORCE my own opinions on anyone, I only give my opinions, what you do with them is entirely up to you.
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The reason your druids posting rights was removed is becase you flamed another guy in his own thread for voicing his own oppion. so yes you do force your oppion, just read the top 5 threads your in everyone of them talking crap.

you flame anyone that does not share the same oppion as you. read the top 5 threads, even a glad warrior in 1 thread, was expressing his oppion on warrior pvp and you trashed his thread becase you didnt like what he said.
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85 Worgen Warrior
5700
02/03/2012 11:33Posted by Lidoric
Prioritise, such a nice word. Let's wait for another 2 milion subs to drop, we'll see what "priority" will Blizz have then... :-)


Yup, because not balancing around 1on1/2on2 primarily is the reason for most sub losses.
Duh. Look at the recent quarter losses, you can clearly see where the issues are at. And pvp is not a big part of it
When something is close to impossible with how they want to balance things, then prioritising things are necessary.
Hell, I don't agree with what blizzard wants to do, I want either 1 spec is balanced for pvp while other is pve. (Different for hybrids ofc) or just abilities working differently in pvp/pve. They don't want too and I do think it's their job to work something out, and they're on a good way with that with the new stats Power and Defense.

But look, a spec needs to be balanced for

raids
5mans
utility/buffs/whatever so you dont need the "perfect" setup for 10mans to be viable
5on5
3on3
2on2
1on1
rated bg's
You name it

Prioritising the most favored aspects and then attempt to work things out eventually is basically necessary. Otherwise it'd be a big !@#$ing mess
Things can't just be "JUST DO IT"



02/03/2012 11:33Posted by Lidoric
I can trust you on that. But tell me, why is it better to destroy warriors in top tier game, then mages?


That doesn't make any sense, if they're on par with alot of the other melee's then the warrior should be buffed. Not the mage get nerfed. Common sense brah.



02/03/2012 11:41Posted by Bluetube
Kensin and swagger are the same person btw, he got banned from the forums on his druid, he just likes to start flame wars ignore him.


Did you read one of my other posts here, about how I like to make fun of people claiming things without having any clue about the facts.
Well..
Haha.
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85 Undead Warrior
6830
You have two options now as a warrior, endure the ners and wait for us to be godmode in start at mop to be nerfed again OR REROLL ROGUE AND GO GODMODE!
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90 Human Warrior
0
What is really annoying in PvP?

Feral, mage and rogue. All of them are on GOD MODE ON.

Feral - ultra dps, ultra CC, ultra surviability and ultra mobility ...
Mage - mega ultra dps, ultra CC, ultra mobility + surviability together ... too much frost novas, blink etc.
Rogue - high dps, mega ultra CC, mega ultra surviability, high mobility

Reroll one of them. U will pwn all.
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90 Human Warrior
13135
What is really annoying in PvP?

Feral, mage and rogue. All of them are on GOD MODE ON.

Feral - ultra dps, ultra CC, ultra surviability and ultra mobility ...
Mage - mega ultra dps, ultra CC, ultra mobility + surviability together ... too much frost novas, blink etc.
Rogue - high dps, mega ultra CC, mega ultra surviability, high mobility

Reroll one of them. U will pwn all.
nothing is free ya know, even for mages and rogues
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85 Human Warrior
3125
02/03/2012 11:33Posted by Lidoric
Prioritise, such a nice word. Let's wait for another 2 milion subs to drop, we'll see what "priority" will Blizz have then... :-)


i hope another 5mil subs drops, maybe then this game will become the great game it once was, feel free to unsub (no hard feelings) :)
Edited by Zenthio on 02/03/2012 23:15 GMT
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90 Undead Warrior
8210
Yup, because not balancing around 1on1/2on2 primarily is the reason for most sub losses. Duh. Look at the recent quarter losses, you can clearly see where the issues are at. And pvp is not a big part of it


Who said it's the primary reason? When things are going down so hard and so fast, clever bussiness company will consider all possibilities to keep as many players as possible.

When something is close to impossible with how they want to balance things, then prioritising things are necessary...


"Impossible"? Now I'm really tempted to call you a fanboi... :-)

02/03/2012 11:33Posted by Lidoric
I can trust you on that. But tell me, why is it better to destroy warriors in top tier game, then mages?


That doesn't make any sense, if they're on par with alot of the other melee's then the warrior should be buffed. Not the mage get nerfed. Common sense brah.


Only thing that doesn't make any sense is you, refusing to see the point. Just look at the statistics, there are a lot less warriors in high rated arena than it should be - and you are saying it's OK? There is no any "common sense" in that, just you failing to think fairly.
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