Topic
[A-RP] Public Trial
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I remember the time when Reike got caught for pickpocketing back in the days it was a week in the cells AND 100 lashes. |
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Edited by Selascius on 12/03/12 23:45 (GMT)
Was that under this Guardforce Xanai? Because I am pretty sure the amount of lashes under Wolfs administration for pickpocketing is not 100.
Apart from the point that it is a ridiculously high amount of lashes for a crime that isn`t major, this guards lawbook states a different penalty for it: (THEFT (MINOR/GRAND) – 2/5 gold fine or 2/5 days jail – Theft of the possessions of another entity. ) |
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As Sel said this will have been a different guard regime as Wolf is pretty lineint towards punishing minor criminals |
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As I've told Sel in private, about 2½ - 3 years ago or somesuch.
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So, they're great ooc, but IC they would probably be removed? Hmm, maybe they could be removed IC, but stay ooc? Possibly get in alts? I understand you need people to help run things ooc, but I'm fairly certain giving them a slap on the fingers wouldn't cut it from a strictly IC view. yep that is true, Darkmoore got exiled/outlawed due to self defense *Shrugs* but I guess time changes, as the previous posters said before me... which reminds me, if the laws changes and as well as the rules, does the punishment from previous guard guilds also count? |
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100 lashes is enough to kill if it's given in one go I'm pretty sure, unless you're using one of those soft leather kink floggers. >_> One of my characters got a stern talking to when she was caught pickpocketing, and that's all. :D |
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At the end of the day, arguing over this isn't going to solve anything.
So stop the forum drama and get on with your day. It most likely doesn't affect you anyway. Aimed at everyone flaming the thread, in general. |
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At the end of the day, arguing over this isn't going to solve anything. ...I don't see any flames, nor arguing. I see a healthy, friendly-toned discussion. |
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yep that is true, Darkmoore got exiled/outlawed due to self defense *Shrugs* Well the answer to this falls flat in between IC and OOC and the key word in this answer is depends From an OOC point of view despite what we all say ICly there is no record of criminal/guard activity apart from the one each guild keeps themselves (If they keep a record at all) so truth be told we oocly know nothing of who the State arrested and why and only the memebers of Herius's guard remember a small ammount of the criminal comings and goings. So from one point of view no the punishment from previous guard guilds do not count because we simply don't know about them unless we DO know about them in which case it stands (I'm looking at you Sinthy/laudress/darkmoore/dravius/Morrigan to list but a few of Stormwind's famous most wanted) Sadly in this situation Darkmoore your punishment still stands as you made me aware of it right from the get go but before that you'd already commited treason so you were damned from the get go really :P From an IC point of view it really depends on the person the crime and the circumstance I suppose, if a crime was commited and punished by a previous guard regime and that crime is treated differently in the new. I suppose the easiest way would be to explain through example, take for instance if a previous guard Regime had exiled some one for a minor crime say Drunk and Disorderly or disturbing the peace both are crimes that in the current guard regime would warrant a night in the cells, a fine or lashes if the prisoner caused alot of trouble in the cells. In this case more then likely the criminal would be pardoned of the exile due to the natuare of the crime If a criminal was exiled for something more serious then no it's not likely they would be pardoned of their punishment. as I said it all really depends there isn't an a deffinate answer it all depends.
That's because Wolf caught her trying to steal from him and he thought she was his friend >_> |
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and just to add to one of my points:
So from one point of view no the punishment from previous guard guilds do not count because we simply don't know about them unless we DO know about them in which case it stands (I'm looking at you Sinthy/laudress/darkmoore/dravius/Morrigan to list but a few of Stormwind's famous most wanted) While reading over this a question poped into my head "so why when there is a changing of the guard don't all the criminals come flooding back into Stormwind in the hope the new guard won't reconise them?" To which I have only one answer, thankfully many of the big criminal RPers who have earned themselves Exile are thankfully matuare and respectful people OOCly who don't meta-game and don't take advantage of the situation of a budding new guard. |
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[quote] She still is. <3 |
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So by unpopular request. The Jury´s mindset.
Aylian says: Please take a seat. I'll return when you are finished. Aylian smiles. Kaur inclines his head. Nomine half nods Blygh nods. Kaur says: Thank you, may the light Bless you. Tahrina says: I will stand Nomine slips into a chair Kaur takes a seat, looking about the table carefully. Nomine says: Been a long day, ya reckon some of em will provide for a bit of food? Blygh says: I hope it shan't take -that- long. Kaur says: I do hope not. Blygh places his journal on the table. Tahrina says: Let us get to the facts gentlemen Nomine says: Shall we get to it then, does anyone here belive they need to be punished harshly? Tahrina says: in my opinion, harshly is not what I had in mind Kaur says: Harshly? No. Justly? I do supose, yes. What they've done I think is inexcusable, but reflects on there training and orders. Nomine half nods and looks around the table Blygh frowns. Tahrina looks at Blygh. Blygh says: May we consider them seperately? Blygh says: I found the two cases had different merits. Tahrina says: I would like to surgest that Nomine says: Fella who whispered me, before leaving. Voted guilty, however to be honest. They did´t see all, an we now talk about shades an all Nomine says: Ay. I think seperatly is best too Kaur says: Indeed. Though we must accept both of the others verdicts. Guilty is, indeed guilty. It is not our place to argue gradiants when they've been quite so black and white on the matter. Nomine says: The burning of the fields first, with the hurt worgen? Tahrina says: Indeed Tahrina says: I found that the most disturbing case Nomine pulls out his flask, taking a sip from it Blygh says: Yes, yes. And she completely neglected to mention it in her own account. Nomine says: To me it was the easiest case, reckon the rioting hobo´s was harder to judge You nod at Blygh. Tahrina says: That is not a guards way to act such a way Tahrina says: She should have added it in her account Nomine says: Guilty of something like "Acts unbecomming an Guard", but not of Murder an all? Kaur says: Indeed. A sign of guilt in my eyes. She was sevearly miss-guided in her duty, it sadens me so to see justice handed out in such a fashion. I doubt I feel safe to walk the streets if she remains a guard. I do apologise if that seems to harsh. Kaur frowns to him self, again more upset then anything. Blygh says: No, not murder I don't think. But she must not be allowed back into uniform. Nomine says: Reckon yer wrong there, we need her back in uniform. However, we need to ensure that the guards don´t stay in a unsupervised role, with no training from outsiders Tahrina says: Agreed Blygh scowls. Nomine says: We got to make sure they don´t remain removed from the people they are to protect. Blygh says: She was dishonest and she sounded ignorant. Those are not things training can fix. Nomine says: To me she sounded like she acted inn ill haste, for one. keep in mind were the worgen was hurt Kaur says: Not to mention she threw fire at a mother with child. By the light man, that's the most brutel form of abuse. Blygh says: I do not think the same of the other girl, but this sergeant seems rash and unsuitable. Kaur says: And what if she where hert? It still wouldn't matter - She threw the fire. Kaur perks an eyebrow. Nomine says: Paws were hurt, her feet in other words. Thats were ya throw a fireball to stop somebody, when ya don´t want em dead. Tahrina says: If i may add something Blygh says: Not one of them said that was the intent. Kaur conceades, leaning back in the chair. You nod at Tahrina. Tahrina says: I will agree on the guard was dishonest in her statement, that shows lack of respect and loyalty... She should be concidered on that aswell in my opinion... Nomine says: Fair enough, lets work our way down the list then. Make it easy Nomine says: Regardless, do ya think she was wrong in making the choice to burn the field? Blygh says: I do not think we heard enough evidence to consider either way. Tahrina says: The fields were tainted, as for that her actions could be justified... however Kaur says: Let it not be said that the light is un-forgiving, but her actions sound self surving and un-caring. Both traits I do not think our guard can harbour. You nod at Kaur. Tahrina says: The case could be handled more carefully Nomine says: Ay, it could have been handled more carefully Nomine says: An what about the force innvolved in trying to stop the running woman? Kaur says: They should have given chase, I do supose. I'm just a tad shocked that throwing a ball of fire was there first reaction. Blygh says: Unnecessary and not the action of a guard. Tahrina says: It made me think of ill Actions Kaur says: Quite so, quite so. Nomine says: So, what about "Justified in burning the field, but the actions taken to stop a fleeing suspect was not becomming a guard, and she should be punished for that crime on its own" Kaur frowns, pondering for a good moment. Tahrina says: Agreed Nomine takes a sip from his flask Tahrina says: She acted on her reason and experiences Blygh snorts. Blygh says: I agreed until you said that. Blygh says: She has proven she has very questionable levels of reason. Nomine says: Well, reckon that is true for the field. Certainly not happy with how she handled a fleeing suspect. An reckon actions needs to be taken to stop that culture among the guards Kaur says: I would sugest adding...Perhaps "We recomend demotion and adding this to her record?". I just couldn't live with the knolidge that I allowed her to be a sergant of all things when she acts like that. You nod at Kaur. Blygh rubs his temples. Blygh says: She should not be allowed to continue serving. That, and only that, will nip this culture in the bud. Nomine says: An some sensitivity training, an a bit about diplomacy perhaps. So she can avoid such situations Kaur says: Though, I fear that this may not be enough. Perhaps she should be made an example of is that is the aim? Nomine says: To be honest, I think the culture is by his own admission, brought on by the Commander Wolf Blygh says: Then this is our opportunity, as citizens, to reject it. Nomine says: And I am not happy with punishing her, for something he have wrought. Kaur says: Then make an example of his comanding officers. It would prove that he does not have the authority to act so. Blygh says: He didn't throw the fireball. He wasn't even there to give the order. |
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Kaur says: Quite so.
Blygh says: Instilling a culture is one thing, but it does not take away the culpability of the individual. Nomine says: He have trained em in striking down hard on a fleeing suspect. Don´t think we can say this was´t acting along those lines... Tahrina says: He said that himself You nod at Tahrina. Tahrina says: What happend there was not in his ways at all Kaur says: We need to set a president then. Make it clear that this can't be aloud to happen again, make them buck up there ideas. Tahrina says: That would surgest she acted on her own Blygh nods at Tahrina. Nomine half nods and ponders Nomine says: We agree on her being cleared on the field at least Blygh says: You're right. What he actually said was that this was far beyond what he intended. Tahrina says: By saying that aswell he stated his hopes for this jury aswell Tahrina says: So i believe Kaur says: Do bare in mind the other two's thoughts and feelings on the subject. Nomine says: I think demotion is a good idea actually, keep her in the force, but also demand that she changes her ways. Perhaps through schooling with somebody more diplomatic. She can´t remain as a commanding officer. Blygh rolls his eyes. Blygh says: You haven't changed your position one bit. Tahrina says: I agree... Blygh says: Demotion is not good enough. She has to go. Nomine says: Actually, I have changed my position Kaur says: Has it not been said that she had form in regards? To me it sounds like this time for some tough love, as much as it pains me to say it. Nomine smiles softly Nomine says: An also, one question we haven´t asked. Nomine says: Do we actually get to meete the punishment, or just the verdicts? Tahrina says: Indeed Kaur says: I would sugest we form our thoughts and deliver them so, both punishment and verdict. Tahrina says: Agreed Nomine says: I certainly think we NEED to make recommendations for punishment regardless of what they expect Blygh nods. Tahrina says: We can not decide in the end... yet i follow you Nomine on the recomends Nomine says: An I simply put don´t belive that removing her from the guard, will improve things. Punishment like much more, I belive it needs to be seen an felt. Nomine says: Out of the guard, out of mind is what I fear. Tahrina says: She will have to come down form her steed and see the guards with eyes of a Recruit Tahrina says: Being an officer can make you look down upon others Kaur says: Then I would recomend that we indeed, do recommend removel from the guard. We can not allow for her to remain as she is, surley she will only get promoted again. Commander Wolf talked so very highly of her at the start, that it sugests demotion would - Nomine half nods and leans back into the chair Kaur says: only be some sort of sick faccade in regards to judgment. Kaur stands, looking rather flustered. Nomine says: Ay, an what you say there is key to me Nomine says: "Wolf spoke highly of her" Kaur sighs, lowering him self back into the chair. Tahrina says: Gentlemen... Conclution Tahrina says: We have another case on hand Nomine says: Thats the whole damned fault, He belives they are good people, the acts of his men an women. Reflects on him Nomine says: How about we look at the other case, while we think? Blygh says: Yes, a good idea. Kaur says: Indeed. Kaur nods ardently. Nomine says: Dereliction of duty, leading to death of people, right? Blygh says: More of a mess, this one. More harm done, but a less clear judgement. Nomine half nods Tahrina says: It would seem the farmers were intimidated Kaur says: She didn't leave her post, we can not fault her for that. But her actions speek to me as one who does not care for those who she should. Again I fear her staying in the guard would only hert there established role. Nomine says: Ay, no doubt there, so I agree with ya Tahrina. You nod at Tahrina. Blygh says: Wolf spoke of her past record - she had been warned before. Nomine says: Ay, an that made me wonder, she was warned. Yet he allowed her to take out a rifle? Nomine says: Anyhow, he ain´t on trial. Even if he perhaps should have been. Nomine taps his flask, pondering a bit. Kaur says: Again, we must make public the fault of the guard here. Blygh says: I would find her not guilty of dereliction, but in the strongest possible terms, condemn the culture and attitude of the guard, as well as the individual, that led to what happened. Kaur says: Should we not have them lead by example, and be seen as an example? Make clear that such behaviour is not aceptable, have her removed from the guard then tried as if she where a member of the public. Nomine says: So she did´t leave her post, so no to deleriction. However attitude needs to change. How about suspension until she have done reperations to the families of the dead and wounded? Blygh nods slightly to Nomine. Nomine says: I reckon we don´t want em to serve, either of em. Until they change attitude, an show the culture is wrong. Kaur says: Indeed. Indeed. Redemption is all we can offer the lost girl. Tahrina says: Suspesion sounds like a justible example Tahrina says: For both cases Nomine says: Yeah. An it feels right to make the guard ensure this redemption. Make em right their wrongs, an do so publically Kaur says: Quite so! Quite so! Nomine smiles a bit Kaur says: I would sugest that we also sugest an inquirey into the culture that has festered so in the guard, that allows for this to happen. Blygh says: Fine. But may we add a personal recommendation to the captain, to root out those who -cannot- be rid of this callousness and ignorance, and be rid of them. There are not so few guards that we must live with dangerous ones. You nod at Blygh. Tahrina says: So we agree on the facts then... Suspesion of the guard untill they have proven them selvles worthy Nomine says: Ay. we need to send a strong sign to the guard commander Kaur says: Indeed! Indeed. Nomine says: Shall we recommend suspension for the first one too, Until she has proven to changed her ways, in a public manner, and helped make reperations? Tahrina says: Indeed Blygh sighs heavily. Tahrina says: Aswell as training Nomine says: An of course the personal recommendation. Kaur says: I am less lineant on this one, but I would ask that we also recomend demotion. Nomine says: Ay, demotion, suspension, an reparations? Blygh says: Yes, demotion. She must know that she is teetering on the brink. Kaur says: Indeed! Indeed. Tahrina says: For her case yes... Officers who are to proud of themselfes is only damage Nomine says: Ay. Seems like a good way then Nomine says: Shall we get the guardswoman then? Tahrina says: Should they get over the Suspension it will all be the same Blygh nods. Blygh says: Very well then. Kaur says: I must regretably agree. Nomine says: Ay, why they need to show changes an work. We never know 100%, we can only get the best Tahrina says: I am clear with the judgement Nomine says: Good Nomine says: We are done Aylian nods. Aylian says: Follow me back, then. |
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Edited by Wólf on 26/03/12 17:33 (BST)
But it it wasn't a state trial, this guard regime is not corroupt and tyranical. We are more like Gene hunt: Good at heart and trying to enforce the law as best we can but we aren't saints |
