World of Warcraft®

I left SSL many years ago (Whitepaw/Nicki)...and tbh I don't play WoW (scroll).

I played in a guild of very skilled players once, looking back besides external issues the number one reason why things fell apart was a complete lack of skilled players on the server. I believe for the most part this is why other guilds of the top players have failed...

See I can understand why people aren't all that good now that I have things that take up a majority of my time (IRL). I used to be able to look up EJ specs, practice in dungeons on that dude in netherstorm and keep myself focussed. I don't think I ever got back to that point as I got older and life simply became more demanding maybe at a point in sunwell where I was really kicking !@# as a ret paladin (This was before 3.0 long before 3.0...).

One really has to be involved, even engulfed to get the most out of their character, let alone be alert enough to not fail at the basics of raiding. Sadly the calibre of your raiders determine how long a progress oriented guild lasts, when standards drop so do the days you actually raid. I experienced this in a guild and friends who went to Inner Sanctum predicted the disband of minions of mithril in cataclysm (yes I don't know all the details and I respect the players from that guild deeply) and then people predicted all be it a bit early the decline of inner sanctum (a previously 6-18 ranked guild now performing at a 100~ ranked guild).

I think this shows as a whole the player base is falling off the wagon, there is less motivation to play as dedicated with the entire game as they have aged, got tired, etc. You have to remember that progress was what most of these guilds were after and raider like me. This changed when you could simply do normal modes, raid finder modes and 10 mans. While the ToC model was awful the current model is not all that interesting in my opinion, in reality it's like Naxx 40 to Naxx 25 uninteresting because a few abillities have changed (yes that's an over simplification).

Then one has to consider that perhaps it's best WoW cater to it's paying subscribers so of course any pride you had over being able to get into BT or Sunwell went out the window along with the reward of starting to look unique. In short the rewards for good players have become World of Logs parses there isn't much in game satisfaction given so why bother to tune your raid team to be better?

Scarshield however suffers from a different case of problems a lot of the player base is inexperienced due to this realm being a recommended realm and there isn't a large population. Theres a huge diffence in players in stormwind on ssl vs a server like outland. Which brings about the final issue which is ther are no guilds to aspire towards. Scarshield Legion top 3 ranks are 602, 2089, 2518 while Silvermoon is 211, 224, 310 (which are actually pretty good rankings when you consider the inclusion of TW).

Dungeon finder and raid finder hinder community building in my opinion. I realise its nice and easy but damn I haven't made a single friend in dungeon finder, Yet some of the best wow friends I have were met in dungeons or by pugging them to raids!

Lastly I want to cover why this doesn't and shouldn't matter. I spent a long time looking for progression raiding, I found it in the perfect form 3 days a week raiding at world 200 rank. It came at a cost the cost was I found that the guild was less social than I was used to, I found I missed vent conversations during guild raids and instances and I wasn't having fun outside of raiding. I loved being a part of the guild and wouldn't ever change that decision but I had found through that, that sometimes human interaction even virtual is more important than efficiency and good players. If I had learned this sooner perhaps i'd still be playing.

TLDR: If you have a good community as a guild or are in a guild where you can laugh and have fun outside of raids together, your progress is perfect and SSL will ALWAYS have these threads.

Please excuse my spelling errors I really cba to fix this post up...

I'm not interested in a band-aid free migration. I want a full scale merge of the english RP-PvP realms in europe. That's the least we deserve as paying customers. Now, if we'll get it or not depends largely if our miscontent is voiced or if people just play the /apathy card and flip their credit card and leave.

Saying "Nah, it' won't happen." or "I'll just migrate, they won't fix it anyway" doesnt' solve squat.

Well First of all it's not me trolling on the forums as you said at the begging of your posts. It's some random people on this server who is attempting to troll me because they are obviously jealous.

Now on topic. Well I agree with you that a full scale merge would solve things, but as I said let's be realistic, it never happen before and won't happen, people are whinning about this for years now, being realistic means that there is a chance of happening. I've seen more than 200 topics (and not only for SSL) saying exactly that but nothing ever happen, so where exactly you disagree with me?

As for you talking about paying customer, you need to understand that you, as paying customer, gets in return a game with all the required features, with tech support that fix bugs. As paying customer blizzard gave you lots of opportunities and services (char transfer, free migrations when they are available, character custom etc). You can't force blizzard to give you all that you want just because you are a paying customer.

The whole point of my thread is that people should not have to pay money to play on a populated server. Not them, not us.

I'm not interested in having free migrations here getting some high-horse pve heroes dragging elitist jerks with them who then fail their trials and start pestering our forums with badly written apps and bad attitude. I believe I speak for a majority of SSL in saying this. That's not the kind of people we want.

This is how market works, you pay to get. You misunderstood the whole explanation of what I said about high ranked guilds moving here. Let me explain it :

1st. High ranked guilds moving to realms with low pop so they avoid lag during raids. They don't care about realm's player base since they mostly recruit cross realm something existing guilds on SSL can't do. That means more people will transfer to said realm.
2nd. High ranked guilds want players with more than average skill level in order to compete at the high rankings. That doesn't mean they are all elitists, from my experience on SSL forums, I've seen people being very low on rankings yet being more elitists than any high ranked raider. When a player fail it's trial on 1 high ranked guild doesn't mean it can't be a valuable asset for one lower ranked one.
3rd. As I clearly said before, high ranked guilds organize lots of PuGs doing heroic modes, lots of alt runs etc, that means random people who are unable to experience the content (and so they can't join any raiding guild cause of their experience) they start getting trained and get experience. High ranked guilds usually don't ask for ilvl or achievement when they are doing DS normal or BH.

@Nickí , Hey nicki :) I'm skelos I guess you remember me :) if I remember correctly you were in Liberi Fatali when I was guild master there. Long time no seen m8. Well you are correct about everything you said but you see if I start talking about player skills I will be flamed being an elitist so I try to avoid that. Anyway, since I know perfectly (from the inside) why IS fall, I can say that it is because Blizzard killed 25man raiding (Don't want to go more into details since it will start a flame war) , guilds that come to my mind having the same fate are :

Inner Sanctum, Memento Mori, Numen (they merged with Crab People), Ensidia and more.

Edit : Nicki, you will see that the answers you will get from SSL will be "Move to your realm and post there" , "we don't want you here", "go back to your irl", "you are ulothar's fanboi" etc :P

Hey Nickí and welcome back to the ssl forums, we very much value your input into this discussion :)

@Skelos ;) soulbound...RAINAH PUULL. I can handle that, I once got told by a person in South Africa that I was an expat and therefore had no right to comment on the politics. Yet here I am in South Africa...people assume too much :p. *I hold no political affiliation but am against policies that clearly discriminate against the minority in the population*.

I could have found out why things changed and yes I kinda agree the failure between 10 and 25 man raiding is a problem. In my honest opinion there should have been seperate content for both but this is unfair and too hard to maintain etc.

However wotlk let a lot of average players appear really good so I feel it needs a ton of blame, paladins simply never needed to use anything outside of their rotations for example...

I actually think there has been no incentive to continue pushing progression raiding, people paticularly in the west really thrive on incentive. Higher item levels and having to do 10 man in order to get a kill are really sucky options.

I must agree that high ranked guilds do organise a lot of server wide activity and always have. I know however that since wotlk no one outside of the top 3 guilds has any respect for a guild tag. e.g. when I was in a top 6 guild on silvermoon I used to always get into pug runs purely because the guild did sunwell. In wotlk my minions of mithril tag got me nothing but 'gear score?' or 'Link achiv?'.

I forgot to mention another problem ssl had...too many guilds. Simply put if guids were to find a way of merging there'd be less trapped skilled raiders. Mind you I think it's better to be happy then to be on the pointless progress bar. Then again I have to ask myself why would I ever settle for less than I experienced?

Edit: @Mentalist haha thanks, just avoiding doing something useful ;)...

13/03/2012 17:52Posted by Ulothar

As for you talking about paying customer, you need to understand that you, as paying customer, gets in return a game with all the required features, with tech support that fix bugs. As paying customer blizzard gave you lots of opportunities and services (char transfer, free migrations when they are available, character custom etc). You can't force blizzard to give you all that you want just because you are a paying customer.

We get alot out of paying for this game. However, fact remains that at the end of the day this is a multiplayer game, that is the most quintessential part of this game. Playing with others.

If there is a problem with the multiplayer function of an mmo, read, 'you don't have enough people around to enjoy the game' (which I argue is the case on SSL, or will be in the very near future) then we should have this issue fixed by, at the very least, a free migration or a full server merge. It's like saying you sell sandwiches but due to the small amount of customers you cut back on the bread and start serving lettuce with ham alone. It's retarded, pardon my language.

13/03/2012 17:52Posted by Ulothar

Now on topic. Well I agree with you that a full scale merge would solve things, but as I said let's be realistic, it never happen before and won't happen, people are whinning about this for years now, being realistic means that there is a chance of happening. I've seen more than 200 topics (and not only for SSL) saying exactly that but nothing ever happen, so where exactly you disagree with me?

Why would we settle for less? The attitude 'Nah, won't happen anyway...' is not what brings around change. If it requires 300 topics, so be it.

13/03/2012 17:52Posted by Ulothar

You misunderstood the whole explanation of what I said about high ranked guilds moving here.

No, I understand exactly what you mean. I'll decode what I meant:

I'm not interested in having free migrations here getting some high-horse pve heroes dragging elitist jerks with them who then fail their trials and start pestering our forums with badly written apps and bad attitude. I believe I speak for a majority of SSL in saying this. That's not the kind of people we want.

What I tried to say was: High achieving guilds attract a certain kind of people who usually display one or several of these traits:

-Bad language
-Bad attitude
-Lack of patience will less experienced people

This is to my experience, from playing on Balnazzar, Stormreaver & Argent Dawn, especially true for the people who apply to the high achieving guild and then fail their trials and/or leaves after a short period of time. That's not the kind of people I want here.

I am generalising a lot here, I am aware of that. There are very kind, considerate and pleasant people in a lot of great guilds. However, these stereotype exists for a reason.

People often reside on RP tagged realms since you don't have that kind of people here, they are put off by the RP tag and stay on their cool pvp realms. (Yes, I have a resentment towards clean PvP and PvE realms.)


To finish up, I thank you for your effort to provide a solution, sadly I'm not convinced that it is the right one. I just know that we need something to counter the lack of people.

If anyone needs convincing of the severity of the topic at hand, have a look over at Sporeggar. They are now where we will be in a year or two, unless something happens. (Ps. their horde progress is 1/8 H, and that guild stopped raiding after that kill, the best active horde guild is now on a stunning 8/8 since two days ago, with the 10% buff. It can get worse.)

I don't wanna head down that road.

To be fair, if you look at progression, SSL is definitely getting out of its slump imo. And by that I don't only mean PF doing pretty okay, but also for example Aftermath's super quick yorsahj HC kill.

haha yeah progression raiders really don't have time to babysit... *remembers a trial in MoM lasting less than an hour*

I disagree, I have encountered the elitist !@#$ sure embarressing type but I think writing bad applications belongs to the majority of players (having handled recruitment in casual raiding guilds)...

Yes one of the main reasons I rolled on SSL (With a mage named Elena) was to avoid the pig headed idiot population. I was lead to believe more mature people chose RP like servers. However this was shattered when this server became reccommended.

I think swearing has sadly become ingrained in the English language (mostly in England though) I hear far less swearing in south africa for instance, while a conversation in england would usually contain 2 profanities atleast.

I think raiding in WoW may very well decline more, simply due to the age of the game and time vs. reward feeling declining.

I was shocked to find out that a paladin held a grudge against me from SWP times to Ulduar because I responded impolitely to a question he had about ret paladins. I dont even know what he asked let alone what I said but still...

I think pvpers can be as bad manners wise as well...

For current guilds I think its best to slowly restructure to a community with common interests (excluding WoW) in order to prolong your guild's lifespan...An infusion of new blood would help but it would be a band-aid fix for this problem what is actually needed is splitting SSL and low pop realms to multiple servers/factions. Giving clear information about what is popular on each realm. e.g. lightbringer has a fair number of south africans I guess.

I guess my feeling towards the merging of weak realms is that it doesn't quite work like -1×-1 you don't get a positive. I also think its time blizz stopped charging for faction/server changes but put on a cooldown. This would promote migration and would maybe allow SSL to grow or finally die. I am much more in favour of a paid 1-80 service for players who have an 85 character or those sort of features so long as it has minimal effect on endgame content.

I agree that swearing has become more and more common but I doubt it's related to the english language. Swedish and norweigian is just as bad. But the real problem is not that people swear in my opinion, it's that they swear and behave towards eachother. I don't mind foul language, I'm no saint myself. But being openly rude and offensive towards others is the trait I find hardest to tolerate.

13/03/2012 21:29Posted by Nickí

I also think its time blizz stopped charging for faction/server changes but put on a cooldown.

A sound idea, but even I find this unrealistic. They earn too much money on this service to remove it. Since migration to and from RP server always (to my knowledge) target other RP realms we're at a loss really. Since only AD and possibly Moonglade have a population worth mentioning and it's not big enough to migrate from. In my eyes a merge is the only option. But removing the cost is not a bad idea at all, not that I believe a whole lot of people would come here.

To be fair, if you look at progression, SSL is definitely getting out of its slump imo. And by that I don't only mean PF doing pretty okay, but also for example Aftermath's super quick yorsahj HC kill.

Absolutely. We're doing great these days, but I'm still worrying what will happen when a few coreplayers of PF/Am/Malevolence or even Ferus fall into the D3 pit, one might be able to replace a player or two from other guilds, friends, alts or socials. In the end however, the house of cards will crumble, starting at the bottom.

13/03/2012 15:08Posted by Ulothar

I totally agree with Gurth's posts, except his #43 post. My dear friend Gurth, you should know that Aftermath managed to kill all of the bosses in Dragon Soul heroic in 10man, so they can't be considered as a 25man raiding guild. If your progress comes in 10man you are a 10man guild.

Skelos, read the post again. I said the are a 25-man guild but chose to go for 10-man content because they didn't have the manpower. If your main focus, which I still understand AM's to be, is taking down 25-man content then it shouldn't matter what they do outside of that. The fact that they were still competing with others in 10-man shows that those that are still around wanted to raid if possible, not that their raid focus has changed.

Perhaps it's time to encourage blizzard to open a more of a vanity type service e.g. dances, transmog sets and the like. This would be a huge boost of income from the chinese WoW servers. Other things that migh work are in game achievements unlocking paid leveling, paid class changes, paid tri spec? There are plenty of features blizzard could earn cash with and I think the scroll of ressurection was maybe a way to test the waters.

Letting transfers be a free service with a cooldown and paid without seems sensible especially since other mmos have made the service free.

My expectation is SSL would die, I think a lot of the small population don't actually know what an rp realm means and perhaps putting all rp-pvpers on one realm would resolve the issues better than the futility of keeping these realms on eventual life support. Although you may find that people want to start up guilds with friends given the ease of movement.

I know one of my biggest issues with WoW was never quite being on the right realm or faction as friends and there wasn't an easy way to get them to agree to go to the same realm. Lets face it students dont want to fork out £35 you have a better chance of getting 10 vodbulls (yuck)...

Exactly how I feel, I don't need 6x 25m guilds killing Madness heroic pre-nerf or gladitator players around every bend in orgrimmar. I just want the realm to feel alive, people starting pugs, raiding cities, creating rbgs teams etc. Right now it's a damn struggle to fill a 10m classrun to Baradin hold on a wednesday. That's not what an mmo is supposed to be like. =(

Yeah actually, pretty much this... :(

13/03/2012 18:50Posted by Nickí

@Skelos ;) soulbound...RAINAH PUULL. I can handle that, I once got told by a person in South Africa that I was an expat and therefore had no right to comment on the politics. Yet here I am in South Africa...people assume too much :p. *I hold no political affiliation but am against policies that clearly discriminate against the minority in the population*.

Oh the memories:) yeah we had great time in Soulbound ;) do you remember Unity?:P hehe, btw Rainha managed to enter Method for a while :P

On topic now :

@Nicky, well yeah obviously being in a top guild no one will ever ask you for ilvl or achievements, I haven't been asked for such things for ~2,5 years now, maybe more. The thing tho is that when high rank guilds make PuGs usualy they do not ask for ilvls or achievements, maybe some do but the majority aren't at least the ones I know and have been in. I organized myself quite a few PuG groups without asking for anything, these pugs start with normal modes (having in the group a decent amount of guildies to ensure some progress) and then watching over people's performance, if they weren't good enough they were replaced next week, at the end you can easily make a PuG group running with people who are willing to learn and perform. My experience (being on many realms already) tells me that you can find tons of "diamonds" in pretty bad guilds, these people deserve to have the chance.

Nicky you very nicely mentioned the issue with the amount of guilds being on a realm like SSL. I remember in the past I already said that on this forum and got flamed for that. Anyway, yes nowdays that 10man raiding reward you with the exactly same loot resulted having way to many guilds. I remember one of the most common 10man guilds say is "we are a bunch of friends playing together and enjoying the content", this is exactly why 10man guilds won't find it easy merge. Of course there are exceptions to that, but generaly it's not something that can easily be done. Every server all of a sudden saw guilds poping up every day. I know quite a few raiders (irl friends mostly) leaving 25man guilds simply because they couldn't have all spots always in raids (some bosses require fewer healers, or fewer melee's etc) so the easy solution for them is to leave and creat their own friendly-closed community guild.

@Tharmod, I agree with you that an mmo actually need people to be fun. Altho using your example, if you have a shop selling sandwiches in an area where not many people passby to buy your sandwitches then the only way of changing this to make profit is to "move" your shop to another area, you can't ask from the municipality to bring another area into the one you sell your sandwiches.

So actually this is the big issue here, you see blizzard never merged realms in the past, even after hundreds of posts, it's not only SSL who asked for realm merge believe me. If you remember blizzard announced that the battlegrounds merge (which is simply few areas and not whole realms) was a painful process. Merging realms require lots of logistics and it's something that blizzard never done and doesn't seem to be willing to do in the near future, so asking for something that doesn't seem realistic for the time being makes it unrealistic. I agree with Nicky that this wouldn't fix anything, but yeah it's your opinion and I respect that, it's something tho Blizzard won't consider. You need to understand that it's not an attitude from my part being negative or that Blizzard will merge realms if you make 300 topics, the whole thing is that there have been already 300 topics and Blizzard never done it and it seems they won't do it.

Wall of Text No1 end. Continue in Wall of Text No2 :P

I fully disagree with you Tharmod on this. High ranked guilds do not attract people with bad attitude/language or impatient. I tell you this, I've been in 3-4 high ranked guilds and I never ever experienced that honestly, they might be unsocial some of them making hard to make friends, which is logical since raiders in high ranked guilds can be here this tier and in another guild the next tier, usualy high ranked guilds change their roster pretty often but this doesn't mean they attract people with bad attitude, high ranked guilds care only for performance, availability and communication. I know quite a few people who couldn't fit in the guild's community because they were unpolite. You have the wrong view of high rank guilds. Of course you can find people like the ones you mentioned in high ranked guilds, but isn't like that everywhere? I know lots of people being in bad guilds and have terrible attitude doesn't mean that it's a common phenomenon. So yeah I think you generalise alot there.

My proposal is that if Blizzard opens a free migration to SSL, noone will come cause they know they won't find what they are looking for. That's why I explained that free guild transfer could help SSL because higher ranked guilds (careful I'm not saying guild but guilds) will find this opportunity to avoid lag during progress, these guilds will bring additional players to the realm. If for example a top 20 guild transfer in SSL and they have a trial who failed, obviously said person won't apply to a guild that has 1/8 heroic bosses down, he will join the second or third realm guild (guild that transfered aswell), but once the realm grow in population some of them will leave their current guilds to form new ones and get people from the server to fill up their gaps. Also don't forget (as I said before) high ranked guilds usualy clear content pretty fast which means they have nothing better to do than alt raids and PuGs.

Tharmod, I've been on Scarshield Legion, Silvermoon, Haomarush, Khadgar, Sylvanas, Doomhammer, Frostmane, Kor'gall and Sunstrider and haven't seen any high ranked guild being !@#$ty with others , I've seen exceptions yeah some random high ranked peeps who had %^-*ty attitude but the majority were quite nice.

Damn that was quite long :P

What I tried to say was: High achieving guilds attract a certain kind of people who usually display one or several of these traits:
-Bad language
-Bad attitude
-Lack of patience will less experienced people

14/03/2012 00:26Posted by Ulothar

High ranked guilds do not attract people with bad attitude/language or impatient. I tell you this, I've been in 3-4 high ranked guilds and I never ever experienced that honestly, they might be unsocial some of them making hard to make friends, which is logical since raiders in high ranked guilds can be here this tier and in another guild the next tier, usualy high ranked guilds change their roster pretty often but this doesn't mean they attract people with bad attitude, high ranked guilds care only for performance, availability and communication.

If you're a high ranked guild you usually get skilled recruits. Most of them are nice ppl with a good attitude. But there are also the ppl who think they are skilled and expect to do extremely well progress once they get into a high ranked guild. They have a bit of ego and think they can say and do everything they like cuz they know that the guild needs them.
Guilds that only care about progress usually have more 'rotten apples' then other guilds. They chose skill over attitude. But there usually is a line. If attitude effects progress those ppl get kicked.

But here on SSL things are different from the huge servers. Ofcourse some guilds chose skill over attitude. But I'm sure most guilds rather have ppl with a nice attitude. It's a small community and you usually chat with the same ppl. People know what they can expect from other guilds cuz 80/90% of the server knows each other.
If we get loads of new ppl they want to join the best guilds ofcourse. They have high expectations but actually dont know what to expect, compared to the other SSLhomies who have been here for ages. If they dont get what they want they might get a bad attitude.

Ofcourse I want new ppl to arrive here. But let them plz be low lvls so they get to know the community. If you merge servers and everything gets crowded by loads of new 85's, things might get out of hand.

Like I said on a post before. If we want things to change we have to work for it. By making the community look more alive we might slowly get new ppl :)
And plz forget about merging servers, blizz will never do it.
We have to look behind the border. Think outside the box. Try to do more then just standard progress raiding or arena/bg farming. Try something new and spam Trade chat. Or advertise for it if you're planning on doing a weekly event.
Some ppl chose between tv and wow after dinner. If they knew there was a raid/world pvp/rp event/bg they might have come online instead of watching tv. So they miss trade chat... Advertise more on the ssl forums, it might help ^^

I use to <3 this server when there was an active and contributing PvP community of a decent level.

Now...theres none. Only 3 teams above 2k rating (all ally and 2 of them inactive) on a pretty poor battlegroup at that. Bad times.

Wish there was an incentive for me to move back but sadly the lack of skilled player base prevents that! :(

14/03/2012 00:25Posted by Ulothar

@Tharmod, I agree with you that an mmo actually need people to be fun. Altho using your example, if you have a shop selling sandwiches in an area where not many people passby to buy your sandwitches then the only way of changing this to make profit is to "move" your shop to another area, you can't ask from the municipality to bring another area into the one you sell your sandwiches.

Exactly, but Blizzard is not the municipality, they are the shop owner. What they need to do is to move their 7/11s out of the back alley and into an actual street so people can access it. =)

14/03/2012 00:26Posted by Ulothar

I fully disagree with you Tharmod on this. High ranked guilds do not attract people with bad attitude/language or impatient.

Then we have different definitions of bad attitude. Our mileage may vary, so to speak.

[...]and haven't seen any high ranked guild being !@#$ty with others

It's not the guilds themselves, it's the people that their progress attracts, specifically the people that will apply and fail to get in and/or leave after a short while.

All in all we seem to have two very different views on how to handle low server populations and I think we've both made our point so far, no reason to argue it further.

@Mitsuko, you described fair enough the current situation of the realm but as it has been said by many people already, the current situation is getting worse and worse so things have to change. If more people are about to come, the realm won't be exactly the same, it won't be a small community, we can't have everything unfortunately you can't have a large community with lots of nice progress with 0 retards,trolls and people with general bad attitude. I am well aware that SSL atm have people with !@#$ty attitude even while being a small community.

Unfortunately, as you already know I guess, WoW does not have that many new players and Blizzard can't force them to play on a specific realm so you shouldn't expect for new blood to start in this realm, the truth is that people either transfer or reroll (some people prefare to pay and transfer than lvling new chars), so the only choices you have are :
1st : Let it be as it is with guilds struggling with recruits and progress
2nd: Open a free migration to this realm, having as a result of random people comming over and leaving after a while cause they won't found what they are looking for (those who didn't bother to look over wowprogress).
3rd: Find ways (possibly free guild transfer) to bring whole guilds here that will instantly means more people (some of which may be %^-*!es to be added to the ones already playing here) but with a majority of skilled and relatively friendly people to boost realm's progress.

Unfortunately I can't find any other realistic way. Blizzard won't merge realms, they never done it before and it doesn't seem willing to talk about this even. They clearly stated that the merged battlegrounds was a painful process already.

@Fizzlethump, you aren't the only one. All of us who transfered paid to leave a realm where they had lots of friends, lots of great memories and we all wished to be different.

@Tharmod, I don't know exactly what is bad attitude for you but for me spending 2 hours explaining to random people on how to play a DK, watching their logs and giving suggestions and talking with them daily on realid, spending time PuGing older dungeons and doing achievements, having a nice calm raid with PuGs on the guild's ventrilo with lots of fun and laughter is a good attitude. I ensure you and some people already know it in here (Esgarath can confirm this), I could easily spent hours trying to help guilds in their progress by giving tips and some times raiding with them and believe me I am not the only one.

Just so you know some friends of mine (some of which in top 20-150 world ranked) are trying to make a group through realid and raid FL and all older raid content for fun and achievements (btw if anyone care for some fun let me know here to add on realid for that, currently need tank and healer). Do you honestly think I do that cause I need these? no I do them cause I'm bored and want to have fun and relax since I love raiding. I know more than 20 guilds that have exactly this behavior and attitude. If you ask me yeah, in every guild there are @#$%ty people but please do not generalise by saying that this is the majority.

no i think servers are secure enough already cannot be hack

Unfortunaly if Blizzard would do something about it, it would be like this:

1. Close dead servers would be admitting openly they are doing something wrong thus their stockholders would keelhaul them

2. Merging servers would mean that their population is decreasing rather rapidly then news and/or players are reporting, so their stocks would also decrease rapidly.

3. Putting open up alot of FCM's will not fix it automatically since if the player in question is not tempted to transfer, this option will be denied or accepted by the player in question @ the higher populated realm.

4. Making paid transfers cheaper would also mean that gold sellers and other people can impact an dead economy even more, and also lesser cash for Blizzard Master Plan on hoping people will wait for FCM or using the paid service in question.