[Guide] Understanding the LFR Loot System

MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
5070
The purpose of this guide is to:-


  • Provide information as to how the system currently works.
  • Provide information as to why the system currently works this way.
  • Provide information as to why some items appear to go to a player not normally applicable to the item.
  • Provide ONE place for your feedback and suggestions for improvement.


So, there have been many (and by many I mean tons) of posts on the subject of the LFR Loot system. Hopefully this thread will clear up some of the misconceptions of how the system works, explain some of it’s current weaknesses and at the same time reduce the number of threads raised about it every day. The post limit on this thread will be extended so that your feedback on the current system can be continually posted here and it will be stickified for all to be able to see easily, read and reply.

Please consider posting in this thread rather than opening a new one, the Raid & Dungeon forums have had many great threads recently that sadly seem to sink in the wake of multiple LFR loot threads. This thread will also be reviewed by the community team to gather feedback, as they do all threads, but having all information about this subject in one place will greatly improve the level of feedback that we can all provide.

Please try to keep your feedback constructive, posts such as “OMG AN <insert class here> stole my <insert item here> GG BLIZZ” does not help anyone, no changes will be made by such feedback and it largely gets simply ignored.
Edited by Shammoz on 19/03/2012 18:33 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
5070
How the LFR Loot System Works.

The LFR Loot system is to all intents and purposes an enhanced version of the Need/Greed Loot System.

The difference is that some items are restricted to certain classes (Druid, Warrior, Paladin, etc.) and rolls are based on the ROLES within the group:

  • Tank
  • Healer
  • DPS



The “ROLE” part of this is all important. Currently as the system stands, Talent Spec is not something that the loot system can monitor ongoing during a raid. It is something we would all like, however it is simply something that is not yet possible. For this reason, the ROLE the player selects when the player joins the LFR system is used to ascertain their loot priority.

Rolling on your Role
(See what I did there?)

A roll bonus of +100 will be applied to a players dice roll if the item that drops matches the appropriate class requirement and the role requirement. For example, If a tanking shield were to drop, the system first checks “Are they a Warrior, Paladin” then checks “Did they select the Tank role”. If there is a yes on both questions, the +100 bonus is applied to their dice roll.

It is important to point out (for reasons that will become obvious further on in this thread) that currently, the system performs these two checks separately, not as a combination. So it cannot isolate a Shaman DPS, it can isolate shamans and it can isolate DPS but not the combination thereof. So certain Class/Role combos cannot always be ensured or excluded for certain items.

So far, so good? There is one exception to this bonus application. If more than one of the same item drops, players may need on both, but should they win one, they will not receive the +100 bonus on the roll for the second one. Whilst this does not fully exclude them from winning the second one, it does mean that someone else who has not won it is far more likely to win.
Edited by Shammoz on 16/03/2012 21:44 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
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Frequently Disputed Items.

Now, whilst the roll bonus system above works well on the majority of items in LFR, due to the nature of some classes and the nature of the loot drop, there are some items that prove a weakness within the current LFR loot system. I will detail some of them below and explain why these items are frequently disputed by many players leading to claims that the system is broken. The system is not broken, it is being as fair as it can within the current technical constraints that exist. I will also take this opportunity to point out, that there have been five changes/tweaks/updates to this loot system since it’s introduction not so long ago and I have no doubt there will be more which will hopefully, in time, improve the situation for all concerned.

Petrified Fungal Heart
This item, to a large number of people would automatically be deemed “Healer Loot”. However, this is not the case. Let me explain…

To Balance Druids, Shadow Priests and Elemental Shamans, the spirit on this item becomes Hit rating. This therefore makes the item as desirable for them as it is for healers.

The problem with this item, is that it needs to be enabled for the role of Healer and the role of DPS for the reason above. So, in effect, keeping in mind what I have explained earlier, the system performs the checks of whether their class is appropriate and then whether their role is appropriate and allocates the +100 roll bonus on these checks.
Sadly, this means that an Enhancement Shaman and Feral DPS Druid will have a +100 bonus on this item.
Breaking this down, An Elemental Shaman and an Enhancement Shaman are both Shamans and both DPS, so within the current constraints of the system, both are applied the roll bonus. Here is where my earlier statement of “Talent Spec is not something that the loot system can monitor ongoing during a raid. It is something we would all like, however it is simply something that is not yet possible. For this reason, the ROLE the player selects when the player joins the LFR system is used to ascertain their loot priority.” comes into play. It is not ideal, but is not avoidable within the current system.

Timepiece of the Bronze Flight
Again, to most, you would say “Healer Shield”. However, just as above an Elemental Shaman can use this shield, as such it needs to be DPS enabled which sometimes means a Retribution Paladin will win it, as he is a Paladin(Shield user) and DPS. The same constraints as the item above applies.

Ledger of Revolting Rituals
This item is enabled for Druids & Priests only. Some Shamans and Paladins would argue that this is an ideal item for them, but whilst the shield above exists, Blizzard felt it was an unfair advantage that Paladins and Shamans would have the choice of four off hand healing items, whereas Druids & Priests only have two. For this reason the offhand is restricted to Druids & Priests only which means all four healing classes have one possible offhand each.

Vial of Shadows and Wrath of Unchaining
As these items need to be enabled in such a way that Feral Druids and Enhancement Shamans can receive a roll bonus, Druid DPS and Shaman DPS are enabled meaning that Balance Druids and Elemental Shamans also receive a roll bonus.

There are doubtless others, which I will happily add in to this post should any player request an explanation in this thread.
Edited by Shammoz on 17/03/2012 11:42 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
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Conclusion

Hopefully this thread has gone some way to explaining how things currently work. However, please feel free to ask questions and post feedback in this thread. All I ask is that you keep it constructive, though I do fully expect the odd flameball in my direction :)
Edited by Shammoz on 16/03/2012 21:32 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
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<Reserved for Future Use>
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
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<Reserved for Future Use>
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- CS
85 Draenei Paladin
5925
This is AMAZING!

*accepts bribe*

(good job though really ^^)
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MVP
87 Undead Mage
5060
Great guide Ozzyboy, keep it up :)
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90 Undead Mage
9420
Nice one Shammoz. Thanks for writing this!
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90 Orc Death Knight
10805
Great job, my good man. Keep on drinkin' wine and bein' awesome.
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85 Human Rogue
6525
Nicely done, Shammoz.
Now, write a guide how to win the LFR loot :D
Edited by Xalah on 17/03/2012 10:56 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
5070
16/03/2012 21:45Posted by Xalah
Now, write a guide how to win the LFR loot :D

Have better dice than mine.

Guide done! :)
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90 Human Warrior
10595
my feedback is as follows:

make it so roll bonuses are ROLE bonuses first and foremost. no more pala healers needing on souldrinker thanks.

2nd - have it check the actual spec. as a programmer i know it isnt hard to use an IF statement to make it that pala DPS cant need on 1H's, etc. doesnt even have to be a checking the spec. logic states no pala healer or DPS can possibly use it, therefore they should only get the +100 bonus IF they are in the raid as a tank. not a ret pala needing on a souldrinker (this is the case i have found)

same goes for mages needing on stuff with spirit. if they have no use for the stats, dont let them need it. if so, dont let them get the bonus. this isnt massively difficult, no more so than preventing a warrior needing it.
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
85 Draenei Shaman
5070
16/03/2012 23:16Posted by Lambey
same goes for mages needing on stuff with spirit. if they have no use for the stats, dont let them need it. if so, dont let them get the bonus. this isnt massively difficult


As far as I am aware, the LFR loot system will not apply a roll bonus to a mage on an item with spirit.



16/03/2012 23:16Posted by Lambey
2nd - have it check the actual spec. as a programmer i know it isnt hard to use an IF statement to make it that pala DPS cant need on 1H's, etc. doesnt even have to be a checking the spec. logic states no pala healer or DPS can possibly use it, therefore they should only get the +100 bonus IF they are in the raid as a tank. not a ret pala needing on a souldrinker (this is the case i have found)


This is the ideal and something they are working towards, but as the system stands at the moment, it cant sadly :(
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90 Human Priest
10025
I have one major suggestion on which 98% of all players might agree.
Suggestion of automatically passing loot on leaving lfr instead of
a) going to waste in case the leaving one wins
b) having those who want loot wait for the timeout.
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90 Human Warrior
10595



This is the ideal and something they are working towards, but as the system stands at the moment, it cant sadly :(


sadly its not hard. IF Class = "Paladin then"
bla bla bla access the database pull the file, go through each spec until you reach tank
if Tank = true then
allow Need
Else
Greed only......

obviously thats a bloody simplified version but its an IF statement. something they may have overlooked....
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8350
16/03/2012 23:16Posted by Lambey
no more pala healers needing on souldrinker thanks.


Paladin healers do not get role bonus over Souldrinker. However, paladin dps do. As it is both a tank AND a dps item, and you need to be a warrior, DK, or paladin to use it, all of these players will get a role bonus on it:
Warrior tank,
Warrior dps,
DK tank,
DK dps,
Paladin tank,
Paladin dps.

Awesome guide btw. :)
Edited by Tríxxi on 17/03/2012 00:58 GMT
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