World of Warcraft®

funny that. i had a holy paladin ninja it 3-4 weeks ago -.-

Completely impossible if he was actually in healer roll. If he queued as dps or tank and healed, possible. Otherwise: no, it did NOT happen.

17/03/2012 01:07Posted by Lambey

funny that. i had a holy paladin ninja it 3-4 weeks ago -.-

Then sir, you should've gone to specsavers.

You might want to add Vial of Shadows and Wrath of Unchaining are perfect Boomkin/eleshaman items.

You might want to add Vial of Shadows and Wrath of Unchaining are perfect Boomkin/eleshaman items.

Yes this is a very good example that not only the current active role should be taken into account but also the current tree. I'm not into the lua code, but I can't just believe this will be much of a performance issue taking this data into account.

Not particularly understanding of the point of the guide. Most people who use the forums have done LFR and understand that DPS roles get bonuses on items that aren't for their current spec (Boomkins/Ele on Agi gear and etc etc). What most people have a problem with is WHY the system was made to allow that to happen in the first place. That, and with losing loot, which is a separate topic all together.

Ledger of Revolting Rituals
This item is enabled for Druids & Priests only. Some Shamans and Paladins would argue that this is an ideal item for them, but whilst the shield above exists, Blizzard felt it was an unfair advantage that Paladins and Shamans would have the choice of four off hand healing items, whereas Druids & Priests only have two. For this reason the offhand is restricted to Druids & Priests only which means all four healing classes have one possible offhand each.

Unfortunately, unlike the necklace, this item is marked to give bonus for healer role only. This really makes little sense, it is an excellent offhand for a shadow priest, if not BiS for a non-raiders, as well as a good item for boomkin. Yet unlike the spirit necklace, the healers will get prio on this one, and only if all healers pass will a dps get a chance to win it.
Similarly, dps do not get a roll bonus on a spirit ring from the shared loot table, thou boomkins, ele shammys and shadow priests would benefit nicely from it.
Hopefully Pandaria loot system will be more intelligent :)

LFR really irritates me. Not because of all the loot issues, but the attitude towards it. People go in there with such a sense of entitlement it's insane. It's not a loot vending machine. It's not there for people to get loot, it's main objective is to allow those that otherwise wouldn't have access to the end-game content to see what the raiding crowd see. That's it. That's why you go there, and if you happen to get some gear, then that's a bonus.

This LFR had so much potential, but unfortunately greed and arrogance killed it.

There are people in there that just need on whatever they can, and then want to trade for something else afterwards. These are the people that frustrate me the most, as they're standing amongst 24 other people, some of which could have really used that item, and admitting that they don't need it, they're just using it as a bargaining chip.

One day I'm going to be rich and famous. That is the day I invent a device that allows me to stab people in the face over the internet.

Excellent guide Shammoz, I just hope that everyone who uses the LFR system gets to read it.

17/03/2012 09:47Posted by Miali

Not particularly understanding of the point of the guide. Most people who use the forums have done LFR and understand that DPS roles get bonuses on items that aren't for their current spec (Boomkins/Ele on Agi gear and etc etc). What most people have a problem with is WHY the system was made to allow that to happen in the first place. That, and with losing loot, which is a separate topic all together.

agreed completely and it needs to be fixed.

Great guide Shammoz. This combined with Takralus' and the others work hopefully the R&D will have less LFR loot complaints piling up.

17/03/2012 10:24Posted by Pwnstars

One day I'm going to be rich and famous. That is the day I invent a device that allows me to stab people in the face over the internet.

That's my line :( stole it from bash.org fair and square D:

17/03/2012 09:47Posted by Miali

Not particularly understanding of the point of the guide. Most people who use the forums have done LFR and understand that DPS roles get bonuses on items that aren't for their current spec (Boomkins/Ele on Agi gear and etc etc). What most people have a problem with is WHY the system was made to allow that to happen in the first place. That, and with losing loot, which is a separate topic all together.

This, so so much this...

Indeed. Don't think for one moment that Blizzard thought we would not notice these weaknesses nor that they did not notice them for themselves, but as I said in the original post, this was the best that could be acheived within the current technical constraints. The LFR loot system is still young and I would not be surprised if we see more changes soon, perhaps even before MoP.

Now, all good intentions and setting examples aside which I respect. This is where I generally disagree, given the indications from the interviews Blizzard is pretty happy with their work, so they've given no indication that any of this will change even with all the complaining. Now I know it makes sense to fix the issues eventually and all that, but they don't really lend much in terms of trust to their actions when they go ahead and ignore the issue entirely like a dog turd in the corner of the room that everyone's pointing out every 5 minutes but the owner of the dog fails to see because the dog is too busy savaging their genialia

This is the ideal and something they are working towards, but as the system stands at the moment, it cant sadly :(

sadly its not hard. IF Class = "Paladin then"
bla bla bla access the database pull the file, go through each spec until you reach tank
if Tank = true then
allow Need
Else
Greed only......

obviously thats a bloody simplified version but its an IF statement. something they may have overlooked....

Well the LFR system came after the launch of Cataclysm. No doubt at this point they already had quite a good idea of what they wanted to do with Pandaria. One of the features of the new expansion will be overhauling the talent trees. Designing LFR loot rules around a soon to be obsolete talent system would have been a waste of resources. As a programmer you should realise this.

Oh and never say I'm one to fly in the face of convention. As pseudocode seems to be a prerequisite to making the smallest point about programming/systems design these days...

if (halfwaythrough_expansion && next_expansion_overhaull_talents)
{
designing_new_game_system_around_soon_to_be_obsolete_talent_system = "daft";
}

Edit: Of course they have come quite a long way with the development of Pandaria so they will know what direction things are going in. So don't give up all hope for changes before the actual expansion :)

Edit: Improved style of snarky pseudocode boolean expressions to placate Daenna.

if (halfwaythrough_expansion == true && next_expansion_overhaull_talents == true)

offtopic: this is kinda bad code style though no need to type boolean values here
ontopic: could you add the suggestion to your list please?
hotfixing stuff like automatically passing loot on leave makes sense as I meantioned in an earlier post in here

if (halfwaythrough_expansion == true && next_expansion_overhaull_talents == true)

offtopic: this is kinda bad code style though no need to type boolean values here
ontopic: could you add the suggestion to your list please?
hotfixing stuff like automatically passing loot on leave makes sense as I meantioned in an earlier post in here

I'm aware, I was just being snarky. I wasn't expecting critical analysis of the tongue in cheek content of my post :P

Well the LFR system came after the launch of Cataclysm. No doubt at this point they already had quite a good idea of what they wanted to do with Pandaria. One of the features of the new expansion will be overhauling the talent trees. Designing LFR loot rules around a soon to be obsolete talent system would have been a waste of resources. As a programmer you should realise this.

Yeah I believe that Blizzard didn't originally intend for Raid Finder to hit during this expansion but had their hand forced.

The loot system cannot be fixed at the moment and will have to wait until the talent trees are overhauled.

I think that would solve some of the anomalies with these odd items where specs can Need items they shouldn't use.

The word anomaly is the key there; I don't think it is that big in an issue in terms of the other flaws.

Making items non tradeable would solve collusion concerns but there is no realistic fix for those needing on something when they already have 10 copies of it in the bank.

The new talent tree system would however enable the complete removal of player competition for loot and I hope and pray Blizzard go down that road with players facing an independent drop chance for any items on a boss applicable to their role.

Even ignoring all the concerns about collusion and people taking duplicate items, I feel that one of the greatest justifications for moving to an independent system is the huge variations in performance between players in the Raid Finder system. When you can have for example one healer producing 45% of overall healing whilst two more are completely AFK it just causes too much angst using a system where one player winning an item is effectively denying it to another.

Yes it is psychological but the importance of it shouldn't be under estimated in terms of how it impacts on players feelings towards the game and their motivation to continue.

screw it im bumping this because blizz need to see it -,-

18/03/2012 00:02Posted by Lambey

screw it im bumping this because blizz need to see it -,-

Blizzard will have already seen it I imagine. I'm sure it will be nailed to the top of the forum in the coming week. Apparently they now do forum stuff at the weekend xD

Very nice work on the post.

Timepiece of the Bronze Flight

Again, to most, you would say “Healer Shield”. However, just as above an Elemental Shaman can use this shield, as such it needs to be DPS enabled which sometimes means a Retribution Paladin will win it, as he is a Paladin(Shield user) and DPS. The same constraints as the item above applies.

If a ret pala can win this, then there is something wrong with the priority system.

In fact, I've seen a ret pala win this, and it was a source of significant discontent in the raid.

Needs fixing.