Topic
Ret paladin in MoP?
|
Edited by Dàvion on 23/03/12 17:25 (GMT)
Correction: dispel ONE root/snare every 8 seconds and in case you missed it every single ranged class has a way to slow us more than we can slow them and we still don't have Charge/Deathgrip, so good luck catching up with them once you get out of that frost nova.
You forgot THE one talent every single Ret pretty much HAS to get which, incidentally, is on the same tier as them. As i already said, you don't REALLY think SoJ will proc off judgement, do you?
This is the only good part so far, but while we can deal some damage and charge HP from range you still can't catch up with anything. On top of that both Warriors and Deathknights are getting an offensive dispell, so have fun getting your beloved 6 sec HoF dispelled the moment that shiny graphic below your feet screaming "I IZ IMMUNE TO SLOWZ, LOL!" appears.
This I had no idea of, honestly hope it turns out to be true and stays like that; with this Sanctified Wrath actually becomes WAY more useful than the Zealotry V2.0 the guardian is getting, but we're still pidgeonholed into having to get Burden of Guilt or 3 dedicated holy paladins rotating HoF on us to be able to hit stuff with our 2handers. edit: typos |
|
Edited by Cacchina on 24/03/12 01:37 (GMT)
you guys should know that right now in the beta wings are undispeallable and it's 3min cd... u forgot to mention this part... This is the only good part so far, but while we can deal some damage and charge HP from range you still can't catch up with anything. On top of that both Warriors and Deathknights are getting an offensive dispell, so have fun getting your beloved 6 sec HoF dispelled the moment that shiny graphic below your feet screaming "I IZ IMMUNE TO SLOWZ, LOL!" appears. Shield slam/icy touch glyphed will dispell 1 "MAGIC" buff (on hit)... People are forgetting that our current acts of sacrifise talent will be made into a glyph. We still get to dispel roots/snares off of us once every 7 seconds, which is still huge. Cleanse has 8s cd.. |
|
i know its on a 3 min, so what its undispeallable, i rather have a undispeallable 3 min AW, than have a 2 min and when ever i pop it mages steal it or shamans purge it.... |
|
Shield slam has dispelled 1 magic for ages. But if it has not changed, shield slam is prot only. But otherwise agree. Ranged get more slows and cc, ret gets cleanse nerfed. What are they thinking?
|
|
|
Edited by Cacchina on 24/03/12 11:32 (GMT)
i know its on a 3 min, so what its undispeallable, i rather have a undispeallable 3 min AW, than have a 2 min and when ever i pop it mages steal it or shamans purge it.... Try watching a bit farer than ur noose... every class has a 2min (some1 even 30s 1m30s 1min) burst undispellable or near... The majority of specs can burst u 3-4 times before u pop out ur 2nd wings.... and u can be sure that as soon as u see 1 paladin nuking down any1 under wings AND divine shield we'll get something rearranged again (Even if 1 time each 3min)... Look how nice is that now every mage spec has deep freeze for example and presence of mind... a lot of tools OUTSIDe gcd... and selfheal higher than before... Paladins should be given "TOOLS" nor healing or dmg... since both things weren't goin bad so far... 2x3min burst (1 provided by 1 mindless idiot running around hittin cc'ed target bursting every cc'ed target at the end doesn't help a lot outside random bgs)... Cleanse on 8s is what kills... rest is just a palliative for loosin ZEALOTRY > that was the only good thing we've had in the whole expansion with the (gone a well) selfless wog... |
|
Edited by Dàvion on 24/03/12 13:24 (GMT)
Try watching a bit farer than ur noose... every class has a 2min (some1 even 30s 1m30s 1min) burst undispellable or near...The majority of specs can burst u 3-4 times before u pop out ur 2nd wings....and u can be sure that as soon as u see 1 paladin nuking down any1 under wings AND divine shield we'll get something rearranged again (Even if 1 time each 3min)... I agree about the Cooldown part, but i think the devs increased it to 2 minutes because of it's potential interaction with GoaK and the "Zealotry 2.0" talent, tho i still think the burst should be kept in check and both cooldowns should go down to 2 minutes. About the bubble+wings thing... according to the MoP talent calculator DS still gives the 50% damage reduction, so i don't think what you described will actually happen. Look how nice is that now every mage spec has deep freeze for example and presence of mind... a lot of tools OUTSIDe gcd... and selfheal higher than before... Paladins should be given "TOOLS" nor healing or dmg... since both things weren't goin bad so far... 2x3min burst (1 provided by 1 mindless idiot running around hittin cc'ed target bursting every cc'ed target at the end doesn't help a lot outside random bgs). Agreed, we need more utilities, but the problem is that if we get them implemented as talents then every spec can get them and potentially abuse them to the point of having them nerfed (yes, I'm looking at you, holy paladins...)
As i already said, Cleanse should be reworked to function as it does now on Cata for Rets only, no CD and dispelling only 1 debuff of each kind.
No. Zealotry is needed right now because of how ridiculously poor HP generation is, even with 2xT13. In MoP we're getting a much higher HP gain than now AND an improved Zealotry built into GoaK if you choose to pick that talent. On top of that you can choose to spec into either Sacred Shield (absorbing damage and increasing WoG healing), the new selfless healer (instant FoL every 12 seconds) or a HP-based HoT. End of the line, yes, we lose Zealotry, but as things stand now we won't even need it; what we DO need is (as always) a way to catch up to people that does not involve having to spec Burden of Guilt. |
|
future looks bad
|
|
Retri looks perfect, GJ Blizzard <3
|
Retri looks perfect, GJ Blizzard <3 No, it's not bad at all, but still FAR from perfect. As things stand now we still have HUGE problems with kiters, problems that can't be offset by hitting them with ranged abilities while spamming WoG on ourselves hoping to get them in melee range soon or later; we need either a PROPER gap closer or the ability to keep cleansing movement impairings off. |
|
|
Let's c future ret:
1) no gap glosers 2) no mortal strikes effects 3) no selfless healer 4) no cleanse at all 5) sacred shield as passive gone (but who cares it's dispellable anyway) pro: 1) slow if u talent it at the expense of a cc (repentance) 2) decent hp generation 3) less idiotic exorcism mechanic (still stupid as long as u expect 1 melee white hit to trigger 1 ranged attack... just deliver the proc to judgements at 45% directly)... Useless fashionable abilities at lvl 90... |
|
Edited by Dàvion on 24/03/12 20:35 (GMT)
Check.
We're most likely not going to need them, the devs reduced MS effects to their current percentage while increasing damage for classes with the debuff. If they're restoring it to 50% they simply HAVE to reduce the damage (as they did, for one Mortalstrike itself has been lowered to 110% weapon damage).
Wait, what? We can STILL spec it, and a more powerful version of it (istant FoL on every 2nd judgement) while having WoG back without cooldown AND we have a higher HP generation, so no, heals are fine.
Arguably cleansing has been improved in it's role of removing debuffs, but it backfired once the glyph came out. At this point either give Rets only a passive giving us our current Acts of Sacrifice bonus and reverting Cleanse to it's current state or somehow rework the glyph for Ret only because of, as always, holy paladins...
And instead we get good old Sacred Shield as an actual shield that ALSO increases WoG's effect by 20% (i think). Will it be dispellable? most likely, but it won't have a cooldown and we'll be able to store up to 5 HP at once (also, if it works like the old SS it will place 2 buffs, the effect and the shield itself... hello dispel protection, nice meeting you) so worst case you can get 5 HP, cast SS on self, judge and heal with WoG before it CAN be dispelled, not counting the fact it will proc right away from damage and give another dispellable effect to "cover" itself; it's a win-win situation really...
Which will have a cast time. How many melees you see successfully CCing people with casted SINGLE TARGET spells? or, right, none, and for a reason; Repeantance is there to cover for holys not having means to control the fight now, get over it and adapt.
No, no, no, no, no and NO. That change would accomplish nothing but turning rets into a plate ranged class with optional melee abilities in PVP, so no, the proc on autoattacks is fine the way it is (even tho i would have tied it to both autoattacks and Crusader Strikes). We don't need procs that refresh our ranged abilities on other ranged abilities, we need actual means to catch a target and stick to it. So far we have the latter, but still can't catch up to nothing. |
|
Edited by Nardaria on 24/03/12 20:42 (GMT)
http://en.twitch.tv/mmo_champion
Right now there is a stream with Athene! |
|
Dàvion I completely agree with you in every single thing you say. We do really need more mobility and Cleanse to work the way it does now. Also, shorter CDs on some spells.
Devs should really take a look on this thread, but meh, you know it, we're not mages so we don't deserve any love! |
|
Edited by Xavieric on 24/03/12 22:52 (GMT)
Im not getting my hopes until i see the the overall perfomance on my screen, it may be a scam afterall knowing blizz and their ''love'' for retri.
|
|
Edited by Garían on 25/03/12 03:26 (BST)
Ret and holy might actually be worth playing in MOP. Blizz really need to hurry up and put this terrible terrible expansion behind them.
But imo, it's too soon to tell without seeing the bigger picture (i.e. the meta game). X + Y counters X + Z etc. The longer CDs on dispels will separate the good and bad players in MOP imo. But I don't think that much will fundamentally change. Things might be a lot more fun though. >:) |
|
Correction: dispel ONE root/snare every 8 seconds and in case you missed it every single ranged class has a way to slow us more than we can slow them and we still don't have Charge/Deathgrip, so good luck catching up with them once you get out of that frost nova. What did you correct me on? I never said it worked on multiple CC's. The reason we don't have a charge/deathgrip is because of our mobility. Being able to dispel CC on yourself, speedboosts and freedom would have to be removed if we got something like that. Our ranged snare (assuming you spec for it) will effectively be our gap closer along with our other mobility tools to get on target. Name me one melee that has an easy ride getting up and close to a frostmage constantly without dispels from a healer. Right now we've potentially got the best mobility out of any melee in game as it's very hard to pin a Ret into position for more than a few seconds. Sure, we can be kited pretty easily, but I don't have much trouble getting on ranged and working them down, especially with partners. You forgot THE one talent every single Ret pretty much HAS to get which, incidentally, is on the same tier as them. As i already said, you don't REALLY think SoJ will proc off judgement, do you? Your problem is that you're thinking 1v1, as are most people here. This game isn't intended to be balanced around 1v1. If you're playing with a DK (for example) why the hell would you need to spec for a slow on a judgement? You may as well go for more CC instead. My point was we've still got a lot of useful utility, despite changes. This is the only good part so far, but while we can deal some damage and charge HP from range you still can't catch up with anything. On top of that both Warriors and Deathknights are getting an offensive dispell, so have fun getting your beloved 6 sec HoF dispelled the moment that shiny graphic below your feet screaming "I IZ IMMUNE TO SLOWZ, LOL!" appears. Comparing apples to oranges. Those Warriors and DK's can't throw game-changing heals, sheilds and other buffs, can they? The grass is always greener. If you feel you're being neglected and want the utility another class has, why don't you play that class? All you're doing is looking at the cons and completely ignoring the pros. But imo, it's too soon to tell without seeing the bigger picture (i.e. the meta game). X + Y counters X + Z etc. This. People are just being pessimistic because of changes they dislike. They want to keep everything they have now and gain more. |
|
Your problem is that you're thinking 1v1 NO, the problem is that "u're not thinking at all"... Ret was taken in arena 3vs3 for SELFLESS HEALER and HOF ONLY... Now selfless healer is gone, hof is still present but u cannot cleanse urself to reach the target like u can chaincleanse to remove all possible !@#$ from urslef... U have no mortal strike effects... U have nothing really... |
|
Edited by Dàvion on 25/03/12 12:56 (BST)
@Crayo While everything you said was correct my point is the devs are changing the "purpose" of the Ret spec. Right now we're a support-oriented damage class capable of staying on target by chaincleansing ourselves and making our partners stay on target with HoF and burst heals; as things stand now in MoP we're shifting all of our support to heals because we're going to rely heavily on HoF to keep moving. While i have no problem with this myself,since it's basically the way i've always played a paladin, the situation in arenas doesn't look so great; after all, if you need heals and a little damage you might as well get a holy paladin, better heals, spammable CC AND holy wrath now suppresses crits for 6 seconds...
And by the way, before anyone gets the idea, i DO realize i said that on a character with 0 arena matches and close to no achievements, so spare me the "zomfg, yoo haz no 2200 2v2 achi!!". |
|
Edited by Âëí on 25/03/12 13:02 (BST)
They were thinking that a spammable 50% slow on top of the fact it's already hard to peel a Ret Paladin because they can cleanse themselves 100% of the time that it would result in an overpowered melee class. Why is every other person on these forums a crying kid who moans when one tiny little thing gets changed? Look at the bigger picture for once. Ret has never looked better in MoP.
50% slow. Ranged ways of building Holy Power. Ranged attack in the form of Holy Prism. We definitely do have stuff. Stop crying. |
Anybody who thinks that the right to tell our own opinions on this forum comes from the number of arena games won and the amount of achievement points is a complete idiot, don't worry 'bout that, you know what you're talking about. :) |
