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21/04/2012 14:55Posted by Saphiramoon

- last night I gave FDCL a try and boy, that is getting a nerf, unless thats how they plan to balance out the mana dire issues of priests - strange, but seen stranger things from blizz?

then woudlnt that make it a mandatory talent ? :p and wouldnt we need a 25% mana back from archangel to balance out the usage between FDCL and AA ?

FDCL seems OP now, but when you start doing raid content it's value will lessen. Unless our mana is so bad we have to sit there spot healing with heal instead of using PoH, but that would !@#$ing suck.

21/04/2012 22:08Posted by Halaberiel

FDCL seems OP now, but when you start doing raid content it's value will lessen. Unless our mana is so bad we have to sit there spot healing with heal instead of using PoH, but that would !@#$ing suck.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts. It's very good for SINGLE target healing, but that is what Holy needs a boost at, so GG imo. No need to nerf it for raids sake.

With the general change on how mana works and the first tiers having less AoE (or more like distinct low damage-AoE-low damage-AoE phases) we might have more spot-healing... If that's the case, FDCL could be ridiculous good.

On the other hand, that T11-model was good for AA most of the time -even for holy in some of the cases. I don't really know how it'll scale, but Smite currently seems to have a pretty low HpM making me doubt AA.

I totally hate these times of beta. Too early to talk about numbers, not enough new-stuff... It's all too vague.

Yeah, it is very vague, but it is the time to "take action" and not wait until it almost (or do) hit live, we learned that much. Too bad devs don't read our forums a lot!

I have to play more on the beta and also try AA (got PI atm). One thing is for sure, mana is very harsh.

http://mop.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#pypls do check the new chackra chastise....

and pls explain to me why in heavens name they give 75% reduce mana cost of smite and holy fire, where is the offensive nature of discipline went ?

the shift of spectral guise from ability to talent is a good choise and making void shift our 87lvl ability

but what is happening with discipline priest? and why does holy has divine fury and purify whereas disc doesnt ?

and mindbender? a new shadowfied on a 4min cd? really? thats our talent ? either an op single target healing? or 25% increase healing or a new shadowfied ?

pls blizz if u are going to mutilate disc priest at least put us our spells DA Barrier and penace on one of the holy stances and delete the disc spec completly and above all why are u forcing us to choose divine insight with spirit shell ?

New Priest info as of the most recent patch 15640
Priest
Baseline
Fade now temporarily removes all your threat.
Mass Dispel now costs 13% of base mana, down from 38% of base mana. Now has a 15 sec cooldown.
Void Shift is no longer a talent. Now has a 6 min cooldown. You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount.

Talents
Cascade absorb has been reduced by 66%. Now scales from 97.5% of Spell Power, down from 261.3%.
Divine Insight Discipline and Holy bonuses have been reworked. Discipline - When you cast Spirit Shell, there is a 40% chance your next Power Word: Shield will both ignore and not cause the Weakened Soul effect. Holy - When you cast Greater Heal, there is a 40% chance your next Prayer of Mending will not trigger its cooldown, and will jump to each target instantly.
Divine Star now is instant cast, down from 0.25 sec cast. Base damage/healing has been reduced by 28%. Now scales from 32.5% of Spell Power, down from 65%.
Feathers From Heaven is now Angelic Feather.
From Darkness, Comes Light now has a 2 Charges limit.
Halo is now Instant, down from 2 sec cast. Base damage reduced by 50%. Now scales from 195% of Spell Power, down from 390%.
Mindbender *New* - Creates a Mindbender to attack the target. Caster receives 6% mana when the Mindbender attacks. Damage taken by area of effect attacks is reduced. Lasts 15 sec. 4 min cooldown. Can be cast in Shadowform.
Twist of Fate has been reworked - After damaging or healing a target below 20% health, you deal 15% increased damage and healing for 10 sec.

Holy
Chakra: Chastise now Increases the damage done by your Shadow and Holy spells by 15%, grants a 10% chance for Smite to reset the cooldown of Holy Word: Chastise, reduces the mana cost of Smite and Holy Fire by 75%, and transforms your Holy Word spell back into Holy Word: Chastise.
Greater Heal base healing has been reduced by 17%. Now has a 2.5 sec cast time, down from 3 sec.
Serendipity - When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 20% and mana cost reduced by 10%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 20 sec.

Shadow
Vampiric Touch base damage has been reduced by 75%. Now scales from 37.6% of Spell Power, down from 62.6% of Spell Power.
Borrowed Time - Grants 15% spell haste for your next spell after casting Power Word: Shield. Lasts for 6 sec.
Meditation now allows 25% of mana regeneration to continue, down from 50%.
Rapture - When your Power Word: Shield is completely absorbed or dispelled you are instantly energized with mana equal to 150% of your Spirit. This effect can only occur once every 12 sec.
Spirit Shell now costs 6% of Base Mana, up from 2%. Now has a 1.5 sec cast time, down from 3 sec. now absorbs (32,648 + 219.0% of SP) spell damage. Healing now procs when the shield expires or is dispelled.

Major Glyph
Glyph of Fade now causes your Fade ability now also reduces all damage taken by 10%.
Glyph of Penance now Increases the mana cost of Penance by 20% but allows Penance to be cast while movingif you are going to make holy priest gods at least save the spells of disciplines and then delete completly this changes are simply terrible for disc in general

rapture change makes spirit even more essential for disc than even before eventhough the change in disciplines meditaiton to 25% and keeping holy's 50% meditation is just weird

why does holy has divine fury and purify whereas disc doesnt?
and mindbender? a new shadowfied on a 4min cd?

Discipline has Purify and Divine fury. And Mindbender is an improvment of your shadowfiend, not a new pet.

Item - Priest T14 Healer 2P Bonus - New: Reduces the mana cost of your Flash Heal spell by 10%.
Item - Priest T14 Healer 4P Bonus - New: Reduces the cooldown of your Penance spell by 4 sec and reduces the cooldown of your Circle of Healing spell by 4 sec.

Flash what now? o-O

Druids get mana reduction on Rejuv, Paladins on Holy Radiance, Shamans on GHeal, Monks on Surging Mist... Sounds a bit strange, but anyways...

As for 4p bonuses, druids get a cooldown reduction on Swiftmend, Paladins on Holy Shock. Shamans get +1 charge from Tidal Waves, Monks get +1 target from Chi Wave.

1. The changes to Spirit Shell turned it into a PWS with a cast time of 1.5 sec - which incidentally is same as the gcd, but it wont be possible to cast on the move: so, same mana cost, about same strength (slightly lover), no possibility of proccing rapture, not possible to cast on the move, half the duration, but also no cd and no weakened soul. Its looks to me like a hybrid from PWS and Flash Heal. Oh well, atleast it doesnt have WS attached. Considering its spammable situation, lets compare it to Gheal:
- same mana cost, 6% , both are not instant so not affected by IW
- gheal is weaker but can crit and proc aegis. Same time, SS will not stack the shield, just renew it: I assume if the target is not at full hp, a gheal could be good, and let the SS be absorbed or expire and heal too. Atleast SS looks like it could make its way into disc healing - the former looked absolutely bollocks. However, it opens a new question: what is currently the cheap heal for disc? We dont have Heal, smite for disc is expensive (and it kinda forces into atonement glyph), flash is expensive, gheal is expensive, PWS is expensive, SS is expensive. I'm guessing the balance sits in Inner Focus and Rapture (hoping that rapture is disc, and not shadow, as shown on mmo).

2. The new Divine insight for disc seems tailored for very brutal tank healing fights, when you will want to stack as many absorbs as possible. However, they cant seem to understand: we do not want RNG as healers, or at least we don't want to rely on it. For holy, it procs from gheals, which is not their fav spell, though could become more loved with the new FDCL&serendipity. For disc, we have a 6 sec cd on PWS anyway, so we wont be able to apply it right away. Rapture can proc only every 12 seconds too. Why would I want more PWS on a target that already has it and a SS ontop of it - unless its a critical tank fight like Baleroc? Outside those, the way I see PWS atm, it will be cast exclusively for rapture and in case of emergency/on the move. Cant see the emergency if the target already had a PWS cast, then an SS cast which MIGHT proc the WS off. If you are on the move, you are not casting spirit shell to proc the thing.

I can see it useful for disc PVP: having the chance to be able to spam a non-cast time spell puts you in a better position with interrupts. Doesn't look attractive for holy in pvp due to the need to cast gheal - but if using the SoS glyph or the other team having spent their interrupts, coupled with serendipity, it would proly work.

Serendipity being moved to be a holy only talent makes FDCL a lot less attractive for disc, but looking at disc's lack of cheap options, the free flashes might be worth it. However, FDCL without serendipity is a lot duller and lacks satisfaction.

I'm a bit confused about the shadow/disc new stuff - they are all put under Shadow, but I assume Rapture is still disc? Seems they gave Borrowed time to shadow then?

Mindbender is a new shadow fiend, nothing else: gives more mana but doesnt do dmg, which we dont care about as healers anyway. Sorry, but putting a new name on an old spell doesn't mean you made a new talent. Considering the fact that SF mana returns are greatly nerfed with the mana pools fixed to 100k, this is merely a "brought-up-to-date" shadowfiend.

So we have:
First tier: cc talents
2nd Tier: Movement Talents - I'll still take the feathers (cant quite understand the changes?)
3rd tier: FDCL/Mindbender/Archangel.
As some ppl noticed, FDCL might be more attractive when leveling and less in a raiding situation, unless the fight has a lot of random spot healing. If we have lots of aoe healing needed, we wont be spaming the spells needed to proc FDCL. For random spot healing and tank healing, seems a good talent. The free flashes might be worth a lot of mana and they proc from stuff you would use in tank healing anyways. Mindbender might become mandatory for holy aoe healing - still no word on something to replace Holy concentration, so they might actually need a 2nd shadow fiend. For tank healing (mostly disc) FDCL might balance out the mana gains. Archangel is a pure throughput talent, could be attractive to holy priests, since they have low mana cost on smites. For disc, atm looks expensive for what it brings.
4th tier: self survival cds, DP has a longer cd than AB, but its 50% bigger and can crit. I assume AB cannot crit, though shields have their merits and it procs passively.
5th tier: Twist of Faith/Power Infusion/Divine Insight
As said, I see DI as useful only in cases of brutal tank dmg that ask you stupidly high absorbs on the tank. Useless for aoe healing on both speccs. Unless those PWS are really needed to prevent instagibs, I see no reason to want them more often - rapture cant proc more often than 12 seconds, and SS is a fine absorb.
Power Infusion: the high mana cost of itself makes it a bit less desirable: If I take it to spam the fastest casts I have so I get the most mana reductions, I'll use it with SS and get to cast 10-11 of them: the haste part of PI is pretty wasted due to the gcd cap, and we gain 1.2kmanax10-11=12-13k mana. PI itself costs 6k - so the gain is a 6-7k mana and not much on the throughput side, since the casts are already gcd capped almost. If I choose to use it with PoH-GH, I'll get around 7-8 casts (depending on haste) and save 7*1-1.2k mana (1 for poh, 1.2k for gh), which means 7-8.6k mana. Since PI itself costs 6k, net gains are 1-1.2 k mana for a bit of speed. Seems like a decent talent for aoe healing, not groundbreaking though. It keeps its advantage of being able to be cast on others, but the 6k mana cost makes it a lot less attractive.
Twist of faith - I wonder if this will proc from heals only or absorbs too. I'm used to slapping a PWS (and with the cd it will be a SS prolly) on critically low targets rather than healing them instantly. This talent will work with brutal dmg for holy aoe/tank and for disc aoe. Imagining some brutal aoe dmg, this will go against disc barrier, since the barrier reduction will make the targets not go under the threshold. Again, another case of double edge for disc - something that becomes useless because of something else.
All 3 talents look gimicky.
Cant comment on last tier since I havent tried those spells. I dont like the target priority of cascade: what if the furthest target doesnt especially need healing? I'd prefer it to be a smart heal, since I cant control the bounces. Divine star looks a bit like the paladin LoD with a travel time. Halo has weird position requirements, again judging targets on distance rather than their hp.

edit: and yes, was kinda miffed about the priest 2p set bonus. Since when are we using Flash heals, and especially with a talent that procs free ones all the bloody time, why would we need a mana reduction on those, instead of a commonly used spell like all classes? For disc especially it is utter useless: we will never cast flash heal since we have SS at the same cost, same cast speed and decent output.

1. The changes to Spirit Shell turned it into a PWS with a cast time of 1.5 sec - which incidentally is same as the gcd, but it wont be possible to cast on the move: so, same mana cost, about same strength (slightly lover), no possibility of proccing rapture, not possible to cast on the move, half the duration, but also no cd and no weakened soul. Its looks to me like a hybrid from PWS and Flash Heal. Oh well, atleast it doesnt have WS attached. Considering its spammable situation, lets compare it to Gheal:
- same mana cost, 6% , both are not instant so not affected by IW
- gheal is weaker but can crit and proc aegis. Same time, SS will not stack the shield, just renew it: I assume if the target is not at full hp, a gheal could be good, and let the SS be absorbed or expire and heal too. Atleast SS looks like it could make its way into disc healing - the former looked absolutely bollocks. However, it opens a new question: what is currently the cheap heal for disc? We dont have Heal, smite for disc is expensive (and it kinda forces into atonement glyph), flash is expensive, gheal is expensive, PWS is expensive, SS is expensive. I'm guessing the balance sits in Inner Focus and Rapture (hoping that rapture is disc, and not shadow, as shown on mmo).

I think the cast time of SS is a data-mining error, as far as I heard it has 2.5sec cast time (or 3, not sure). I'll check it soonish...

And Disc doesn't have GHeal anymore, it has SS instead and also has Heal now. Rapture is for disc though, although Meditation is down to 25% instead of 50%.

I think the cast time of SS is a data-mining error, as far as I heard it has 2.5sec cast time (or 3, not sure). I'll check it soonish...

And Disc doesn't have GHeal anymore, it has SS instead and also has Heal now. Rapture is for disc though, although Meditation is down to 25% instead of 50%.

Wat. How do they think we will actually be able to heal? SS doesn't stack, so chaincasting it is not a good idea, which means we have to fill in with stuff that actually heals, unless they make boss dmg just constantly hit for same as the absorb, which will not happen or it will be a very dull sight. And how will Train of Thought work without gheal? Considering meditation halved too, there is absolutely no way we will be able to keep up with mana.

Meh. I hated Heal through cata, I'm not that interested in it in mop.
I'm gonna log on beta and check things myself too, but as a currently happy smite priest that is glad I actually have heals that will heal in about 2-2.5 seconds, not in fecking 8 seconds in the future, the idea of playing disc in mop is just a headache. I was excited at archangel in cata, SS doesnt do it for me in the slightest.

edit:Ok, this is pretty bull!@#$. SS has a stupid high value - 60k, but costs 7.2k mana, 2.5 sec cast .It wont work with grace and since the only spells that will benefit from grace are flash heal and heal, what exactly is the point of grace? To enhance 30% of our healing on a target? (atm it doesnt proc grace either).
Cant do much more, beta crashes after 10 seconds and I'm at work atm anyways >.<. Hope the server is more healthy later.

what i cant possible understnad is why in heavens name are they giving to holy priest 75% reduce mana on smite and holy fire + the 30 % mana reduction from evangelism... does that mean their mana cost will be free for holy? and disc the class that was suppsoed to be the offensive healer gets shafted again.. i prefer spectral guise as a passive ability i might actually take it now, if mindbender replaces shadowfied then it has to be the most useless talent ever..... even the levitate talent was better if this replace shadowfiedif ss replaces GH with 1.5 sec cast time i honeslty dont mind seems legit

but why in heavens name are we in that bad situation as disc? plus with the changes in rapture we will share same gear as holy (reforge wise) plus with holy being the master of atonment healing whats the purpose of us ? 15% increase damage and 75% reduce mana + 30 %reduce mana from evagnelism and +20% more damage which will equal to 20% more healing from atonement and end up in a 35% more damage as holy from atonement ...

It looks like SS has 2.5sec base cast time and caps at 40% hp. Compared to what it was, at least I'm not over the cap by one cast. It still doesn't work with Grace though.

ToT's tooltip isn't changed, but we don't have GHeal. Seems like Blizzard forgot about that one.

Also Atonement glyph is gone and became a disc only passive. So that Smite Chakra changes are prrrrretty much useless.

If they play with the numbers of Smite a bit, I think it could be fine for disc. Currently it heals almost half of what Heal does, making it lackluster. Seems like they're pushing Penance to be the spot-healing tool. Renew doesn't seem to do that bad either. SS will be the tank healing tool combined with PW:S for Rapture. Tbh it doesn't seem that different from live or at least they're going back to that direction.

The divine Insight talent works weirdly: you will get a proc telling you your next PWS will not trigger WS. However, the proc has an 8 seconds duration, which means that if you just casted PWS before you casted SS, you wont be able to use the proc. I'm sure at some point the high proc chance will just let us cast PWS every 6 seconds (kinda like we could with SoS while spamming single targets), but it adds an element of RNG that I cant see the point of tbh.

Fuhus, remember atonement procs 50% on yourself. I wanted to test the smite numbers too but crashes too much for my available time atm. It does look to me that disc on beta atm is very similar to live, with some annoying things, like bugger SS instead of GH. Bleh.

25/04/2012 14:06Posted by Saphiramoon

Mindbender is a new shadow fiend, nothing else: gives more mana but doesnt do dmg, which we dont care about as healers anyway.

Wait, it doesn't do dmg anymore? I actually like my lil Shadowfiend in BGs and arena as it can actually hit pretty hard, especially since most people ignore it and let it wail on them.

25/04/2012 15:53Posted by Farbalin

Mindbender is a new shadow fiend, nothing else: gives more mana but doesnt do dmg, which we dont care about as healers anyway.

Wait, it doesn't do dmg anymore? I actually like my lil Shadowfiend in BGs and arena as it can actually hit pretty hard, especially since most people ignore it and let it wail on them.

No, we still have shadowfiend too. Mindbender is like a 2nd shadowfiend with more mana and no dmg.

Some numbers from beta:

I didnt get the "cant have more than 2 charges" on FDCL, I had few 4xprocs in a row.
Smite dmg is about 16k with my pve gear (403 ilev on live). Atonement is disc only, and heals for 16-17k. Heal costs half the mana (Smite is 4.8k, Heal is 2.4k) and heals for 21k.
Borrowed time is back for disc.

25/04/2012 15:00Posted by Fuhus

Also Atonement glyph is gone and became a disc only passive. So that Smite Chakra changes are prrrrretty much useless.

if holy doesnt have atonement then im fine with it , we can atleast have that different

Seriously, wtf is this shadow set bonuses from tier 14.

Item - Priest T14 Shadow 2P Bonus - New: Increases the critical strike chance of your Mind Flay spell by 10%.

Crit?!?!?!? MORE RNG FTW!!! While the other classes gets bonus dmg to their main spells.. Besides mind flay won't be used as much as today in MoP. This set bonus really needs to be improved to be at the same level as the other classes bonuses...

Item - Priest T14 Shadow 4P Bonus - New: Increases the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch spells by 3 sec.

yey, increased duration of the dots. -.-

Fuhus, remember atonement procs 50% on yourself. I wanted to test the smite numbers too but crashes too much for my available time atm. It does look to me that disc on beta atm is very similar to live, with some annoying things, like bugger SS instead of GH. Bleh.

15-18k is pretty low compared to Heal tbh, since it's double the mana cost of it. Although with Penance giving 3 stacks AA seems viable. Could be nice with Twist of Fate, but it would cost PI...

No, we still have shadowfiend too. Mindbender is like a 2nd shadowfiend with more mana and no dmg.

Mindbender does damage btw. It hits 13 times, around 15k damage and 6k mana returned each. It replaces Shadowfiend though.

I just healed the Brewery. Seems like there's either no tank damage or blood DKs don't take damage anymore. Not one of my shields got broken (although they absorb 51k even with my haste reforges). Didn't have any mana problems though...

25/04/2012 17:11Posted by Fuhus

15-18k is pretty low compared to Heal tbh, since it's double the mana cost of it. Although with Penance giving 3 stacks AA seems viable. Could be nice with Twist of Fate, but it would cost PI...

Tested myself too, idd, smite seems to heal for less than heal now, on a double mana cost and not stacking grace :<. I doubt you'll be smiting when your targets are under 20% hp tbh.

25/04/2012 17:11Posted by Fuhus

Mindbender does damage btw. It hits 13 times, around 15k damage and 6k mana returned each. It replaces Shadowfiend though.

Oh, sorry then. I dont have the talent and saw Shadow fiend still in the spell book. I assume your Mindbender did 13 atacks due to some haste buff, my shadow fiend attacked 12 times for 3.6 k mana each.

I'm really confused about how do they see our mana though: even calculating a rapture proc every 15 seconds, its still less than the 25% from spirit we lost, on top of the nerf to inner focus. I see SS as a very mana inefficient spell compared to Gheal: its a bit bigger (my gheal before the change was 44k with no grace, 56 k with 3xgrace), so its 15%-8% bigger, but costs a !@#$ton more mana, it doesnt proc/benefot from grace, it doesnt crit, it doesnt proc aegis, it doesnt reduce the cd on IF. I'll try to do some math on a new tank healing rotation for disc sometimes, but it really looks %^-* atm.

Anyone noticed the spell priority for absorbs? Which is absorbed first, PWS or SS? I really cant be arsed typing my password and crashing for the 20th time. The prio used to be the spell with the shorter duration, unless changed, that means thats SS, and that will !@#$ over rapture royally.