World of Warcraft®

Let's take a look at Dragon Soul shall we?

Mor'chok, considered a joke on both 10 and 25 so no real argument here.
Yor'sahj - Harder on 25 hands down.
Zon'ozz - Harder on 10 man.
Hagara - Harder on 10 man, the fact 10 man gets 3 icelances with 10 ppl compared to 3 icelances on 25 is an absolute !@#$ing joke. 25 Man lightning phase is over within 3 seconds if executed properly making that a joke, 25 man frost phase can have all raid cooldowns dumped into them cause of the joke that is the lightning phase. This makes the frost phase very easy cause you can just AoE heal through it.
Ultraxion - Harder on 25 man cause of dps requirements.
Blackhorn - Harder on 10 man, more room to cover with a smaller group making soaking harde also less people to soak barrages with.
Spine - Healing wise 10 man is harder cause 10 man can't afford class stacking as much as a 25 man guild can. (Multiple resto shamans come to mind here) Dps wise yes, spine is harder on 25 cause of tendon requirements. Overall I'd say spine is slightly harder on 25 man but not by much.
Madness - A well known fact that this is way harder on 10 man, people kill deathwing the same night as they kill spine on 25 man where as 10 man guilds are on it way way longer.

So to sum up, 4 fights harder on 10 man, 3 fights harder on 25 and yet you claim 25 man is the real deal? Please stop embarassing yourself.

Also why bash me personally? I'm working on madness heroic myself in a very casual guild so obviously I do know my share of heroic tyvm.

content is balanced lol

02/04/2012 16:28Posted by Alwaysheals

So to sum up, 4 fights harder on 10 man, 3 fights harder on 25 and yet you claim 25 man is the real deal? Please stop embarassing yourself.

Are you for real? We are not talking about the difficulty level here. It is all about logistics. 25 vs 10 is all about possibility of all crap happening 1.5 times more often on 25 then on 10 and that is what makes it so damn difficult. I am talking about more ppl leaving, sorting RL issues, getting bored going on holiday etc. You need to recruit more ppl to sustain 25 mans and because there is no real reward for doing the content on 25 man majority of the player base will do 10 mans. One more thing to mention is pure performance issue. Average pc simply cannot cope with 25 mans and quite often you are presented with a slide show not a real game play.

Please do listen to that and you will understand what it is all about:

http://www.paragon.fi/news/new-raid-observer-round-table-including-arx

It all boils to personal preference for us here in SoL and we all decided that 25man raiding gives you something that 10 man will never do. Trust me if you give a little extra to 25 man guild a lot of ppl would return to this format.

Look at that as well:

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/ghostlands/rating.tier13_25

vs

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/ghostlands/rating.tier10_25

It pretty much tells the whole story.(sure a lot of ppl left wow since wotlk but not that many)

We ended up with two 25 man guilds here BRB trying to be more hard-core and SoL that is casual guild with some great roster. Kudos to ppl from Censored for representing the realm but I am sure if you took the core teams from BRB, SoL or No Quarter (doing so atm) to do 10 man raiding from the start of DS they would be close to 8/8HC by now.

Erm you might not have been talking about difficulty but plenty of people have been throughout this thread and I simply replied to those.

Those people need to get off their high horse and realize that 10 man nowadays IS the same as 25 man. Logistics is the only difference between 25 and 10 man, no one can argue it takes more effort to set up a 25 man then a 10 man guild but that has nothing to do with the actually difficulty of the raids. Sorry to burst everyones bubble but I find it sad to see censored get bashed after scoring a realm first because people cant cope with the fact they lost the race and have to start spamming LOL 10 MAN lines.

/Agree with Always,

What does all this matter anyhow though? xD

Is this all about censored? ..They got there first, no amount of QQ will change that. Tbh it doesn't matter if it was 10 or 25man, they put alot of effort to get there too and the ones that are crying about this !@#$ just need to accept that and move on and if you can't then I recommend installing "Hello Kitty Island Adventure".

Also, Instead of QQin about past achievements, plan for the new server firsts in MoP.

I dont understand where people are getting "this is all about Censored" lol are some people trying to score brownie points?

Its about trying to motivate people to form more 25man guilds on Ghostlands. rather than mass 10mans.
It isnt a post about getting rid of all 10mans and have all 25mans.
Its about having/trying to have an equal amount of 10 and 25man.

Go back to the first post and read it again all them peeps that say stop QQ'ing about Censored...
Gratz Censored, they got whisps saying gratz about server first... (and !@#$%ing about Blaze's shiny loot)

in the words of alwaysheals .... Deal with it and move on. Get back onto the true topic of this post.

02/04/2012 23:14Posted by Adría

Is this all about censored?

No it is not...at least for me. It is about the future of lager scale raids. They simply offer a different gaming experience and it is a pity that they are in such a decline. Ghostlands is now a bit deserted hence the difficulty in recruiting. Who knows how long wow will stay alive but even paragon admits that in its current form 10 man raiding will be ranked equal to 25 (not in mop but later). Who knows what the future holds, downsizing to 20 man, maybe a standard format of 15 man and no other formats, we will see. Last resort is to move to a better realm (number wise) but we don’t want to pay hundreds of euros to move our toons.

If only Stronza were here... I'm sure she would've found an answer for this mystery :(

I don't understand why ppl split logistics and encounter difficulty. They're the same category of things that can stop you from progressing, and therefore both are filed under 'makes the fight & progress harder'.

As an individual player, 25 = 10 man. Except some fights with silly requirements. (someone mentionned Zonnoz, or healers on spine).

As a guild, and as far as progression is concerned, it is much easier to to it on 10 man than on 25. Our guild is the living proof of this.
EDIT : and many many many many many other guilds worlwide who went 10. We are not doing it by choice though.

I dont understand where people are getting "this is all about Censored" lol are some people trying to score brownie points?

Its about trying to motivate people to form more 25man guilds on Ghostlands. rather than mass 10mans.
It isnt a post about getting rid of all 10mans and have all 25mans.
Its about having/trying to have an equal amount of 10 and 25man.

If you look, this thread it went from wanting 25man raids to 10man vs 25man and then to QQin about Censored xD Completely went off track entirely.

Imo, I doubt they'll be many 25man's if not at all. There's so many games like Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 etc coming out soon that WoW's population will get even smaller and most likely lead to many dead servers. Ours is already almost dead as it is. If they leave the servers as they are at that point, then more people will leave.

You'll only maybe see a few 25mans in MoP and thats only if blizzard decide to merge servers.

Let's take a look at Dragon Soul shall we?

Mor'chok, considered a joke on both 10 and 25 so no real argument here.
Yor'sahj - Harder on 25 hands down.
Zon'ozz - Harder on 10 man.
Hagara - Harder on 10 man, the fact 10 man gets 3 icelances with 10 ppl compared to 3 icelances on 25 is an absolute !@#$ing joke. 25 Man lightning phase is over within 3 seconds if executed properly making that a joke, 25 man frost phase can have all raid cooldowns dumped into them cause of the joke that is the lightning phase. This makes the frost phase very easy cause you can just AoE heal through it.
Ultraxion - Harder on 25 man cause of dps requirements.
Blackhorn - Harder on 10 man, more room to cover with a smaller group making soaking harde also less people to soak barrages with.
Spine - Healing wise 10 man is harder cause 10 man can't afford class stacking as much as a 25 man guild can. (Multiple resto shamans come to mind here) Dps wise yes, spine is harder on 25 cause of tendon requirements. Overall I'd say spine is slightly harder on 25 man but not by much.
Madness - A well known fact that this is way harder on 10 man, people kill deathwing the same night as they kill spine on 25 man where as 10 man guilds are on it way way longer.

So to sum up, 4 fights harder on 10 man, 3 fights harder on 25 and yet you claim 25 man is the real deal? Please stop embarassing yourself.

Also why bash me personally? I'm working on madness heroic myself in a very casual guild so obviously I do know my share of heroic tyvm.

Clarity said the following:
First 3 harder (slightly) on 25 man, Hagara Harder on 10
Ultrax WAY harder on 25, spine way harder on 25, others slightly harder on 10.
But I'm sure Werdup knows nothing about PvE

Zon'ozz is defo harder on 10 man then on 25 and spine is not way harder on 25 then on 10. Yes it's harder but only because before the nerf you needed stupid class stacking, now with the tendon hp nerf it's only slightly harder. All in all Dragon soul is pretty evenly balanced in 10 and 25 man so theres no point in bashing 10 mans for it.

AFK COMING BACK IN 5.0 AS 25M GUILD. WE ALL LOVE HLEP!

03/04/2012 22:46Posted by Alwaysheals

Zon'ozz is defo harder on 10 man then on 25 and spine is not way harder on 25 then on 10. Yes it's harder but only because before the nerf you needed stupid class stacking, now with the tendon hp nerf it's only slightly harder. All in all Dragon soul is pretty evenly balanced in 10 and 25 man so theres no point in bashing 10 mans for it.

I'm not arguing about the nerfed versions, in the grand scheme of it nothing is hard any more if you're a top guild, and thats who really the content is originally for. But the original versions of fights, what I said is true. And pre-nerfs original spine was way harder than 10 man (the word werdup used was significantly. In caps.)

And even if somehow you figure 10 man and 25 man being the same tactical difficulty, then the having 25 people makes the 25 man more difficult for reasons aevah said

BRB defending why they bad /Priceless

Popcorn anyone?

I wouldn't say 'BRB defending' more 'people who enjoy 25man raiding defending what they enjoy doing'. Its no coincidence their either in BRB, SOL or NoQ, cos that where you'd be if you preferred 25man raids. Think about it :)

I have nothing against people defending 25 because they enjoy it more. I personally enjoy 10 man more cause of the personal feeling to it. I do have something against people who keep claiming 25 is harder then 10 and so 10 man server first etc don't count. By all means stick to 25 if thats your preference, to everyone his own thing but don't be hating on the 10 mans.

BRB defending why they bad /Priceless

Popcorn anyone?

I'll take some.
Got any with cheese? Those rule

Edit. Damn Alwaysheals beat me on achi points ><

AIGHT I OVERTOOK ANOTHER PERSON, so beast