Topic
• Info letter IV: The Borderlands Campaign •
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Edited by Waywatcher on 17/04/12 06:20 (BST)
What is the Borderlands Campaign?
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3269837112 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3484279009 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3553598845 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3660206425 --- Info letter: The Borderlands Campaign Since the original FOUR threads of the Borderlands Campaign got filled up, I've made this new thread to keep people informed of what's currently happening in the planning of the Borderlands Campaign. A few reminders for everyone: • If you haven't yet read the campaign information, you will find it from the links above. See the first four posts of the first thread and their links. • Only units will have to sign up for the campaign. All individual roleplayers and guilds are welcome to the campaign area during the Borderlands Campaign, and they can participate in the roleplaying and skirmishes. The only thing they cannot participate in are the campaign's missions. • The storytellers, and especially the executive storyteller (me) are going to be very busy, especially when the campaign launches. If you receive short and snappy answers to your inquiries or no answer at all, remember that it isn't likely because the storyteller is a rude person, but because he has over 40, possibly over 50 guilds to take care of. Not just you. Give them some slack. Asking things in this thread may be an easier format to get your questions answered. • The Borderlands Campaign is happening as we speak. • Discuss the RP-PvP side of the Borderlands Campaign here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3554367384 |
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Edited by Waywatcher on 25/04/12 21:52 (BST)
UPDATED LIST OF UNITS AND OTHER INVOLVED PEOPLE:
The Alliance units Crimson Dusk (Mister Adaeron Fridelund) - Unit specialty: Infantry - Refuge Pointe The Stormguard (Field Marshal Amarae) Unit specialty: Infantry - Operation Stormbolt Bayerleyn Retinue (Lord Shonn Bayerleyn) Unit specialty: Infantry - Refuge Pointe Ironforge Mountaineers (Captain Jaeryn Waywatcher) Unit specialty: Trappers - Aerie Peak Arathi Honour Guard (Eorl Felian of Redhall) Unit specialty: Cavalry - Stromgarde The Northern Watch (Commander Glennah Gallagher) Unit specialty: Stealth - Stromgarde Ashenleaf Offensive (Lt. Commander Nymirra Bladestar) Unit specialty: Infantry - Operation Stormbolt Anvilmar Iron Brigade (General Grannd Thunderbraid) Unit specialty: Infantry - Operation Stormbolt Royal Loreseeking Society of Ironforge (Feranos Nottheim) Unit specialty: Trappers - Menethil Harbor The Northshire Vigil (Templar-Captain Arthedun Averheim) Unit specialty: Cavalry - Menethil Harbor Swords of Silver (Captain Alastar Revellian) Merged with Arathi Honour Guard Lordaerons Order (Grand Marshal Serion Freed) Unit specialty: Infantry - Stromgarde The Lightsworn Order (Knight-Commander Gaebriel of Sunshine) Unit specialty: Infantry - Refuge Pointe The Horde units Blood Knight Guard (Knight-Lady Amythia Ashfall) Unit specialty: Cavalry - Ruins of Seradane Hellscream's Vanguard (Legionnaire Tazkram) Unit specialty: Infantry - Hammerfall The Sanguine Eye (Overseer Talenthiel Sunshard) Unit specialty: Artillery - Ruins of Seradane The Hand of Agony (Head Apotechary Akru Deathblade) Unit specialty: Artillery - Tarren Mill Moklohn Command (Warlord Savonyth) Unit specialty: Infantry - Hammerfall The Darkspear Tribe (Yecurzo) Merged into Hellscream's Vanguard The Ashen Company (Arindir Firebrow) Unit specialty: Infantry - Ruins of Seradane The Queens Vanguard (Executor Mortilus Plaguethorn) Unit specialty: Infantry - Galen's Fall Dawnherald (Drannach Phoenixborne) Unit specialty: Infantry - Galen's Fall Warband of the Wolf (Gamork) Unit specialty: Cavalry - Hammerfall Farstrider Expedition (Kenara Sunglimmer) Unit specialty: Stealth - Ruins of Seradane Zandalari Outcasts Merged into the Moklohn Command The Bloodied Talons (Commander Baladan Bloodborn) Unit specialty: Stealth - Hammerfall The Blackguard Trappers (Gillawyn Halfear) Unit Specialty: Trappers - Seradane Gearfist IBS (Krakow) Unit specialty: Trappers - Tarren Mill The Spirit Wolves Merged into Hellscream's Vanguard Bladesong Merged into the Blackguard Mercenary units Blackwatch (Coloner Ordgar) Unit specialty: Stealth - Refuge Pointe The Naz'kahet (Deathlord Angelus Arenthil) Unit specialty: Infantry - Refuge Pointe Vestige of Catan (Lord Darill Mehlar Catan) Unit specialty: Infantry - Stromgarde Regiment of the Rusty Raven reformed to The Rusty Nails Company The Rusty Nails Company (Donegal "Rusty Nail" MacNail) Unit specialty: Looters - Refuge Pointe Other involved groups* Thorium Brotherhood (Finnsbrough) Weapons and armor merchants Walkers of the Wind (Harbinger Brockyfang Swiftwind) The Iron Vulture (Fyne) Goblin air-pirates Te Lightsworn Order (Knight-Commander Gaebriel) The Moonrise Hermitage (Arlièn Snowshade) Healers, scouts His Majesty's Couriers (Sedana Dawkins) Mailmen *(These groups are not UNITS and will not participate in the campaign's missions, nor are the bound by the campaign's restrictions. They may be encountered in the area during the campaign.) Storytellers Waywatcher (executive storyteller) Elzarius Rhogor Feranos NO NEW UNITS ARE CURRENTLY TAKEN! Everyone is still invited to roleplay in the area. Campaign Maps by Jessiel: Missions: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Missions-293798968 Unit placement week 0: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Week-0-293798779 Map based on deployment reports on week 1: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Week-1-293795064 Map based on deployment reports on week 2: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Week-2-295298540 Map based on deployment reports on week 3: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Week-3-296389296 Map based on deployment reports on week 4: http://jincha.deviantart.com/art/Borderlands-Campaign-Map-Week-4-297988467 |
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Edited by Waywatcher on 17/04/12 07:04 (BST)
Continued discussion from the Info Letter III...
Thomas & maneuvers of the Rusty Nails: Ask Donegal to read the campaign rules carefully. Changing your camp happens through the next deployment report, given before next Sunday midnight. Ask him especially to note that your Supplies value has dropped to 0 and maybe read from the primer what are the effects of that. Artillery situation: Our good elves will just have to bear with us, and agree with my decision at the end of the week - or vote with their feet. This is not a yelling contest. If I would let you people yell your way through, it would be no point to monitor this campaign, as the loudest group would always get what it wants. I've been doing my best to rum the campaign as neutral and balanced as humanly possible. If that's gonna make me an antagonist to everyone, one by one, so be it. |
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And last, a couple direct quotes and answers.
Trappers cannot trap missions, Nymi, like I've said at least 2 times already. They can place mine fields on the roads and around settlements. Like has been done this far. The major thing that confuses you, I think, with Trappers and the latest Artillery situation is that I never defined very good what was considered a settlement and what a fortress and what a camp. This is my fault, and I will explain them better should a sequel campaign take place.
I wish it was this simple, my orcish friend! It would make things so easy. But I don't think that any person with any intelligence honestly thinks that this campaign would have been running for a month here without common rules and restrictions. |
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Let me have my brownnose moment - I think you're doing excellent job Waywatcher! (hand me the keys to Ironforge's beercellar on Friday).
I was going to post more sensibly, but I see the man himself already answered the points. Let's not have a yelling contest, people. While both sides naturally want to win, let's try to remember the most important thing - how we spend the time RPing, the plot opportunities, new enemies and friends gained (same and different faction alike!), the character growth and impacts this has. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbayaa! (If nothing else, because Nikeia hexed us to do so ...) |
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This. For all the bickering and oft proclaimed unfairness of the other faction, I have no less than 2 characters invested in this by now - 1 on the Horde, 1 on the Alliance. And both are being developed and gaining more friends and rivals by the day. In short, excellent event, excellent guilds involved and excellent RP has come from both. |
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Read more of the much-waited reinforcements for the Borderlands Campaign here:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3686612858 |
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Seems a bit odd to tell someone to 'vote with their feet' after telling others 'let's not start with 'my way or we pull out''. To be fair it's commendable that you're trying so hard to be neutral as the leader but objectively you have to wonder if it ends up going the other way instead. Nor is it really trying to yell, it just seems so obvious that I assumed I somehow didn't make my point clearly enough the first time. Oh well, I suppose we'll see.
Naturally, no amount of discussion changes the fact that this is true! |
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And like I said, and you made obvious, the difference is so slight that it hardly matters what exactly they do trap. Effectively they are trapping a mission. Besides, this is not what the debate was about, so let's keep to the topic of artillery rather than trying to score points on side topics. The major thing that confuses you, I think, with Trappers and the latest Artillery situation is that I never defined very good what was considered a settlement and what a fortress and what a camp. This is my fault, and I will explain them better should a sequel campaign take place. I'm not confused. I've read and reread, and in fact -just- looked over the rules yet again, and they are quite clear. Settlement is mentioned 11 times in the primer, and never in the context of "It could be anywhere, even your camp" but rather "friendly or taken neutral settlements," meaning things like Ambermill, Stromgarde, Dun Garok. Thoradin Wall or units camped there are, by your own words in the last thread, not a settlement, and aren't by campaign rules either. As far as I can see, right now, the only thing you need to explain is why the artillery fire isn't ineffective in terms of the campaign rules. As was said in the last thread, too, other units haven't had the benefit of the doubt or had the rules bent to their favor, so let's not start. |
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As far as I'm concerned, Kayris and Nymi, this issue is dealt with. I have nothing to add, and I refuse to continue the argument further. Your opinions have been noted.
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Edited by Leandir on 17/04/12 08:57 (BST)
And last, a couple direct quotes and answers.I did go through the rules, actually. Looking at deployment reports, I'm one of a select few who went through and really understood a majority of the rules. Nowhere is it mentioned in the rules that trappers can trap missions, they can trap roads and settlements. There is a loophole there, sure, and that is why the discussion is not about trappers right now. That's basically the issue, yeah. You specify a settlement is a place to restock, your supplies do not get depleted too harshly and what not. You gave the word "settlement" a very specified meaning campaign-wise. At the same time, these Alliance units are camping at the wall and made a settlement out of it IC. It just doesn't fit the current requirements of being a "campaign-settlement". Personally, I think it was an oversight. I think you have a clear vision of what is and what isn't allowed so I'm not going to argue over whatever decision is made. I'll save my feedback for when the campaign ends. Either way, it's not going to ruin my time spent. On a more positive note: The Stormguard has arrived in Dun Garok as of last night. Good times ahead! |
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Edited by Dalrick on 17/04/12 09:11 (BST)
If I get it right:
- Thoradin's Wall was not marked as a settlement. - Hand of Agony wish to bomb this wall. - They can bomb it, but it should not affect the campaign, as Thoradin's wall is not a settlement. - Now, it's been decided it is a settlement, most likely just because a unit decided to bomb it. If you are going to overregulate, you better keep to every rule extremely strictly. |
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You didn’t quite understand the situation right, Dalrick. It’s not a question if the Thoradin’s Wall is a settlement or not (it’s not - nor will it become one). It’s a question of if 5 or more Alliance units camping in the same spot can be considered an equivalent of a settlement in terms of Artillery targeting. Which is reasonable according to the internal logic of the campaign’s rules. It’s just not written anywhere in the rules (yet) that this would be the case. The situation is somewhat unexpected and unique.
Again, the matter stays in consideration until the end of the week, and I will make the final decision then. Loudly arguing the matter in the forum, to one side or another, will not affect my final decision. Nor should anyone make too big a deal out of this. Focus on having fun. |
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How is it reasonable in terms of campaign rules, exactly? The alliance units are marked camping in the wilderness, losing them 2 supplies that week. They do not have access to other supplies, it is just those units camped there. Nothing in the rules says or indicates that that would be a settlement, and if it had been they shouldn't have lost 2 supplies.
As for the "vision in my mind" thing, that's great, but everyone else has to play by what is written, not what's in your mind. I was a supporter of this whole sticking staunchly to the rules thing until it turned out that either you aren't above making up rules on the spot, or just haven't written them all down from the get-go, either of which would be puzzling to me. To sum up the matter: You are seen to selectively "punish" some units by rigidly applying the campaign rules, and seen to favor other units by bending the rules or even making some up. Again, this isn't about HoA, it's about an action that was taken that could have been taken by anyone. It's the principle, here. |
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Please, good people. We all know what the issue is here, and Waywatcher will decide one way or another. It`s no use debating it further right now, least not here. I worry this will get out of hand and get really ugly, when we should leave it to WW, and rather discuss it after the campaign, where we can compare experiences and improve on the NEXT big campaign. :)
Please, let us just enjoy this huge pile of fun and activity for now, yes? I really hope people are having as much joy as me these days. :) |
An old comic series of mine got revived thanks to this campaign. Blackguard battles the difficulties in Borderlands! Admittedly a VERY late response.. But Arindir has -never- said that phrase! I call libel. And slander. And slible. |
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"It'll be decided in a week let's save all feedback that affects the campaign now until after it's over :))))))))))))"
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Edited by Nakasu on 17/04/12 13:16 (BST)
Stop with that already. And this isn't a complete, 100% truth on your side. Both sides (WW, HoA, Silverleaf, etc) are right in their own way, but claiming that the other one is doing completely wrong is something that shouldn't be said. This is a preferance and opinion thing, not a law.
I did expect something more mature. |
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Let's be reasonable now, Nymi. If I was able to make a set of rules that would immediately cover all possible scenarios and alternatives without any changes in a campaign that contained over 40 guilds and hundreds of people to begin with, I'd be a bloody genius.
You were supporting the idea of common rules and my evil tyranny of overseeing the campaign - until you didn't agree on something. A certain orc actually warned you about it, when he was having his own moment of drama-infusion, following a situation where he felt that he was misjudged. It's my regrettable position to be an antagonistic figure to each of you, when it happens that you don't agree with me in something. I can just hope that more and more people would understand it as the campaign goes on - and take a mature approach on it. You may even be misjudged sometimes - it's a regrettable fact in a campaign this big. But if you choose to make it a cry-fest every time it happens, it's going to be very destructive on the attempt of bringing this long campaign to a great end it deserves. I ask for your patience and understanding. I'm doing my best here. |
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Do you really expect maturity on the internet?
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