Topic
Military Might & Magic
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Edited by Eicarus on 23/04/12 14:44 (BST)
I've had a question molding in my head for quite some time, but I can't quite find an answer to it. Instead of allowing it to rot my brain away, I decided to drop it out here in the æther, in the hopes that someone out of the fair few on these forums may have some form of answer to my query.
In the history of Warcraft, there have been plenty of roleplayers in the shape of warriors, wizards, healers and what else have you that have left their mark on the world. A majority of these roleplayers have come from - or have founded - military guilds. Brigades, legions, regiments and a dozen of other shapes and forms. But for all these military groups, there is only a scarce few who opt to utilize magi to their full potential. I see a lot of detachments who run gritty infantry with pseudo-realistic surgeons patching up their injured brothers in arms, the occasional healer in the form of a paladin inciting the blessings of the Light upon them all. But for all these flavorful combatants, I rarely see any type of caster whatsoever in their ranks. Why do we choose to reject the two-legged artillery pieces of our universe, despite their capital strength? Surely two wizards flinging fireballs and flash-freezing their foes is far more efficent in terms of collateral damage than another pair of footmen in the ranks? Yes, magi are somewhat scarce to see in most fantasy universes, but they are not as infrequent in Warcraft as they are in many other settings. We see magi in the majority of official military units all over Azeroth - the Kor'kron, 7th Legion and the Warsong Offensive/Alliance Vanguard being the few first that come to mind. Is there some explanation why military guilds reject magi? Is it just because magic isn't "grimdark" enough? Or have I simply been looking in the wrong places, and they actually do recruit casters? |
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Edited by Dalrick on 23/04/12 14:52 (BST)
I think the main reasons are:
- They don't fit in the plate uniform. The way so many people put a lot of importance on looks ... - If mages are so strong, and have to be acknowledged as strong, does that make the footmen less important/respected? Not easy to roleplay. - Less mages search for military carreers and would rather devote to their actual mage role, unlike warriors and the sort, who tend to be good-for-all sorts of RP. Just a few reasons I could come up with now. I think you're right though, and as Fyne says below, I've seen a few units accepting most classes. |
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Whilst mage is not the runaway most common class, and thus does not make up the majority of any guild [except perhaps mage-themed guilds], I have certainly seen casters of a variety of caster classes in various military-themed roleplay guilds. No, pure casters [mage and priest] do not outnumber non-pure-casters [everything except mage and priest], but they are certainly represented, in my own anecdotal experience. |
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A lot of the time, it comes down to looks. Can the cloth classes maintain a look that lives up to the combat majority? Either through uniform, or pieces that match the flavour of the guild.
We've had a lot of luck with spellcasters in Forsaken military guilds, what with all the grey and black cloth that's available. And then almost every human guild gets their mages to wear the blue Tirisfal PvP set. I'm not a server scholar, but from what I can tell the only military guilds on this realm are the ones that deal specificly with combat units (such as First Cohort's infantry focus), and those who don't for cultural reasons (most night elves). Plenty of others do take spellcasters, so you aren't exactly starved for choice. |
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I must say here my friend, you got a very good point in what you are saying, there are a few reason i can imagen make this be like it is.
1, Most military guilds just want to be fancy plated men or somthing, and dont enjoi the idea of a cloth wearer within their ranks. 2, Some military guilds might simply belive that mages and spellcasters have no place at all within a military guild, unless they are healers. So pretty much in my view, people dont see that mages fit within Military orders or somthing like that, yet there are military units who do, so i guess they who do not take mages or so simply dont want them within thier ranks as it dont fit for them, or somthing. |
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Edited by Alvareth on 23/04/12 14:53 (BST)
Maybe the magi simply had no interest in warfare? This doesn't hold to be entirely true in the case of good ol' Quel'Thalas, but most non-elven magi (and certainly elven ones too) seem more preoccupied with studies and knowledge, than supporting their respective faction in times of war. The fact that Dalaran was founded is my main reason for reasoning along those lines.
Of course, I'm sure that the regent of a certain faction or race could command otherwise.. but really, who wants to try and enforce that on the mage? As for guilds rejecting them in terms of military operations... I will refrain from commenting. My input would spark yet another pointless argument about you-know-what series of books. |
I were not expecting them to outnumber the non-caster classes at all except in a magic-aligned guild, but my concern was based on a fair number of military guilds not recruiting casters at all: this is primarily directed to the mage class, the priest less so. I happen to see a few chaplains or battle-priests on occasion.
This was my first thought aswell, and one of the reasons I withheld from posting this question on the forums at all until now. I suppose I was concerned with being flamed by all the grimdark guilds out there. |
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Both Arathi Honour Guard and the Bloodied Crown recruit mages, through IC means.
Who are you afraid of? |
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You bring up some interesting points, Eicarus. You're certainly not alone in your concern regarding the lack of options presented to those of us who favour role-playing as magical combatants. In many ways there appears to be a strange stigma associated with casters, despite the setting consistently painting them as being present amongst the forces of the Horde, Alliance and a number of the other prominent factions present in the game.
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Perhaps it's a status thing. Casters are usually seen as higher up in the social ladder than soldiers, so there's less room for mingling. Mages are supposed to be relatively rare though, so it's no surprise that they're not seen in great numbers in military units. There's also an element of "quick fix" about caster classes that might put some people off - the old saying "a wizard did it" has some merit to it.
I'd quite like to see a unit's leader flanked with a pair of battlemage bodyguards though. People tend to under-use the concept of counterspelling and fail to realise how much more realistic and useful this is than trying to dodge fire. |
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Magic is overpowered in the Warcraft setting, we all know that. As such, I don't think it a particularly big stretch to assume that (like in Night Elven society with the Arcane) it is mistrusted by your average joe soldier. Having said that though, I can't really think of many guilds who do turn down magic users, it just that it might be more difficult for them to be recruited/trusted within the ranks.
Besides, at the moment the Vanguard is overflowing with magic-users and rogues, I'd love to get some more of those grimdark plate users, I'll trade you some of our clothies for them. |
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Edited by Sethreus on 23/04/12 15:31 (BST)
I appreciate the responses so far. I admit, I had overlooked the Bloodied Crown as I was in the belief that they had gone inactive quite some time ago. Seems I was mistaken. I'd like to clarify that I am not seeking a guild for myself as much as exploring the offers that AD presents, as I received a couple of flattering whispers in-game attempting to rein me in.
It's quite the reversal compared to the Alliance guild rosters, I would say. But after the drop of a certain series of books, a television show in the same universe and the soon coming fall of Diablo 3, I cannot be too surprised. Obs: Seems Blizzard decided to swap my forum avatar. Eicarus here, for the record. |
... Hmmn... I need two level 85 dwarf mages that stay active... |
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Well for the Home Guard for example, casters are considered a usefull specialist and support unit when out on deployment, much like priests.
This is perhaps one reason not every military group takes them, they can't fit in with the regular soldiers and they need special training of their own because they are not going to learn exceptional swordmanship or the ability to use firearms effectively, they instead need to work on what they are good at - magic. |
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Isn't the source for that rather outdated and even non-canon to an extent, though? A lot of role-players seem quick to forget that we have always seen casters as part of military organisations throughout pretty much every canon campaign. It's also fair to consider that more and more individuals in Azeroth have decided to take up the arcane - or even fel if they're so inclined - in order to combat the growing number of threats that have popped up in recent decades. At the very least, certain races - particularly draenei and blood elves - should have a much higher focus put upon casters than they do now due to how heavily the arcane ties in with their racial stories. |
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Edited by Moppet on 23/04/12 15:38 (BST)
If mages are so strong, and have to be acknowledged as strong, does that make the footmen less important/respected? Not easy to roleplay. Eh. I'd simply say their tactical uses are different - nobody would build an army of just footmen when playing a game of Warcraft III, but footmen like all the other units have their role to play. Magic is more a different skillset, a different set of abilities to call on that are useful but not an ienvitable path to eas victory, and I'd point out we only have three nonmagical classes in the game - warriors, hunters and rogues. |
You already have the most epic dwarf-mage (and AIB tabard matching!) uniform on you already. :D But yes. AIB does recruit mages, it's just a question of getting active ones that are willing to level/have already leveled. They're quite capable of melding with the others I believe. And dwarf warlocks are also good. TB is itching to try and provoke a Bronzebeard mage and a Dark Iron warlock into an argument for his own amusement. |
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It's quite an interesting subject, but there's quite simple reasons of it.
I am not 'specailized' in many Military Guilds, I've only been in a few. But those I've been in had accepted Magicans, but they simply weren't one of the following;
It can be hard to RP a Mage, similar to being hard to RP a DK. When you see a Mage as a Recruit in a Guild, you don't expect them to be able to beat ex. a Knight. But cannonly they could. Else,
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Edited by Moppet on 23/04/12 15:42 (BST)
^
You make it sound like every mage is an Archmage. Magic has a learning curve like everything else.
Pft. Bronzebeard 'mages.' Got all they know from Dark Irons anyhow... |
