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I would have to say with the way the Tauren conduct themselves towards their former Kaldorei allies, it wouldn't be implausible for them to be treated with a measure of disdain as well.

Regarding warlocks, they're tricky. There are Summoner NPCs amongst the Silver Covenant and elsewhere, but technically consumption of fel will turn a High elf into a Blood elf, regardless of political affiliation (I mean if Valeera is considered a Blood elf but is against the Horde, it is clear Blizzard sees little role for politics in it.) Perhaps something additional is needed, like swearing the oath Kael'thas did, but it's a difficult matter to ponder. There were a lot of reasons for the High elf/Blood elf schism, and fel is still useful in combatting demons and very powerful in general; hence the risk warlocks assume in using it.

The reason the race tended to avoid fel was that it feared the return of the Burning Legion. Quel'thalas was constructed so as to be hidden from it whilst the elves relentlessly gorged themselves on arcane energies. But now that fel has become less marginalised in the Alliance, and with the Legion still licking its wounds, their attitude would be hard to determine. Perhaps there would still be stigma attached to it amongst the Quel'dorei due to Kael'thas and his felbloods, but their case was markedly different to that of a "normal" warlock, since they greatly hastened the process by consuming demonic blood directly. Whether these "summoners" are intended to exist in lore or not is unknown to me. The old WPRG stated that all High elf Warlocks have since defected to the Blood elves, but what if one does not favour the Horde (or indeed, the Illidari before it)? They really need to get this stuff straightened out.

It's a sad day when the prospect of High elf RP appeals to me more than Blood elf RP. :(

Good luck with this, will be nice to see some more cross-faction role-play!

Your point regarding the Tauren is indeed a valid one, but they do still have a few ancient connections (and in not unusual fashion for Blizzard, it is not stated so clearly what these are but they do apparently exist), and of all the races in the Horde, theirs is the one with whom we think we'd have the least qualms; not least because they are, by and large, a rather secluded race as well, and certainly not as expansionist as, say, the Orcs for example.

As for Quel'dorei warlocks, that is indeed an unusual situation with there having been some in the Silver Covenant, and the dilemma about whether they are intended to be there lorewise or just for in-game/technical purpose does bring up a few talking points, and I am sure much roleplay could arise out of the Quel'dorei dilemma; as times grow harder in Mists of Pandaria for them, perhaps having to consider if they could at least 'tolerate' warlocks, as the Argent Tournament did with Wilfred Fizzlebang and co., though I think given the ethos of our guild it would take a great, great deal for Quel'dorei warlocks to be welcomed, if any even exist that is :P

We are glad that this prospect of High Elven RP appeals to you and others however, and again feel free to throw a whisper to one of our guild members if you wish to join - but again, whilst we are inviting and recruiting at this time, it will be a couple of days before we do so in-character :)

http://www.wowpedia.org/Uncorrupted_Warlock

Whilst the source it is plucked from is considered non-canon, it has been strongly implied that not everything within the source in question is suddenly irrelevant. With that in mind, I personally don't consider it a stretch that this particular 'class' could be used as a very rare justification for high elven warlocks and may very well tie in with the 'summoner' NPC we see in the Silver Covenant.

Just figured I'd toss it here since it may prove useful if you want to explain the presence of fel users in the Silver Covenant.

Fel corruption primarily consists in gradual "demon-ification". That is the main risk fel carries with it (and the arcane indirectly, as it can be a path to fel.) Blizzard used to have lore to the effect that the Legion could, at any point, enslave those using its power, but I think the number of Warlocks against the Legion and the Illidari have proven that Blizzard has largely reneged on this. With that in mind, I could definitely see some Quel'dorei taking an interest in fel whilst retaining their current factional affiliations. Provided they're willing to undergo the changes to their body it can wrought. The race has never struck me as one with a principled opposition to fel, though. It largely seemed to avoid it out of practical concerns. Chiefly avoiding the Legion's eye. I am toying with the idea of a Quel'dorei warlock or "Summoner", rather. Equally, given how Blood Mages are demon-hunting Warlock/Mage hybrids, this is another possible avenue they could take.

I very much doubt that any fel-user would be welcome among the Quel'dorei people, regardless of eye colour. To quote a bit of the conversation between Lor'themar and Renthar, the now-dead Quel'dorei Farstrider leader of the Plaguelands;

"Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires." Renthar began to rise from his seat, leaning across the table, truly shaking with rage. "And now you want to offer aid?"

Granted those "living things" could have been a number of things, but the far majority of creatures that Sin'dorei used for their magic was demons.

Personally, I doubt the Quel'dorei would ever admit a fel-user into their ranks, unless he swore an oath to change his ways - and delivered visible results to prove that claim. Fel was the fuel on which their 'fallen brethren' fed their depraved actions in the past, and anyone using it would surely stride down the same path.

As for the summoners in Northrend.. I really, really think it was a matter of mechanics required for the content, rather than a statement of lore.

That's a powerful little excerpt Gravefist, and I think it probably better reflects the ethos that we in The Highvale Union might aim for; many Sin'dorei for example, might have forsaken some their principles in the pursuit of power and survival, but most Quel'dorei have always stayed true. Where the Sin'dorei would accept Death Knights on the basis of their might, or Warlocks on the verity of their chaotic power, Quel'dorei would passionately remember that it was precisely because of those dark and forlorn arts that they were thrown out of their homes and thus turned their backs upon the Sin'dorei. To accept them (not necessarily practice them) would in all likelihood be more than enough to have them being wary of becoming ever more similar to their green-eyed cousins that they disdain with such vigour.

After some lengthy and in-depth guild discussion, there are three classes that I would give our advice/conclusions, should they express an interest in joining:

Death Knights - Many High Elves in lore have assumed the rank/position of both Warmage and Battlemage; both classes often associated with the race in fact. A brief section from Wowpedia.org is quite informative in their similar roles;

Warmages are arcane spellcasters who accompany soldiers into the heart of battle. The generations of warfare on Azeroth have given warmages time to hone useful spells into simple and secret rituals, called "battlemagics", which are passed from warmage to another. Warmages are proficient with all simple melee and ranged weapons, and light armor. They can wield a sword in one hand, and a staff in the other. Armor of any type interferes with the warmage's arcane gestures, which can cause his spells to fail (if those spells have somatic components). As warmages accompany warriors into battle, they become better at defending themselves than other wizards. They develop greater martial skill in the crucible of battle.[1] Warmages are similar to battle mages.

We are quite happy to accept Death Knights on this basis for example, should it strike them as appealing (the Frost spec would be particularly plausible for this idea; channelling frost magic through one's weapons, for example), or they can by all means roleplay anything they choose, it is not our place to police after all, nor would we ever wish to :P But Death Knights who do in fact roleplay as Death Knights we would not accept on the grounds that we wish to keep a pure/principled/proud ethos in the guild ( The 3 P's I suppose one could call that), and given the history of the Quel'dorei, there would be strong disdain and hatred for the Undead; though under pre-ordained circumstances we can indeed accept them as allies, as the roleplay progresses, and indeed should they have an alt then they would be more than welcome :)

Shadow Priest - Having communicated the general idea on the Death Knight section, there are some factors to take into consideration regarding Quel'dorei priests. They were prized by the Alliance in various wars as excelling healers, and have a great mastery of the Light and priestly arts in general. They were not known for having delved into the Shadow arts that our Forsaken friends, for example, have a keen affinity for. Again, that does mean if you are a Shadow Priest then we won't accept you, rather that if you roleplay as one then it would in all likelihood clash with the ethos of the guild.

Warlock - There's been some compelling discussion in the thread regarding Quel'dorei warlocks, and we do not deny the possibility that they might indeed exist. As with Death Knights and Shadow priests however, even if it was the case that they demonstrated a mastery and control over their chosen arts, it would be on the basis of the history of the Quel'dorei that we would not have them in our ranks; Elves being quite notorious for repeating history in the worst ways, ours is a guild that would look to the future, and wish to employ pure arts and methods to make it a bright one.

Just to clarify, this pertains only to characters that actually 'are' these things in their roleplay; a Death Knight can be but a normal citizen in roleplay, and we would be happy to have them among us. Some guilds don't recruit some classes, and there are others that only recruit one for that matter (The Blood Knight Guard to my knowledge has only Paladins in their ranks, perhaps others; but either way, a select few), so I thought it best to state our opinions on these classes and I hope indeed these do not deter people from joining; we are happy to accommodate characters from almost all walks of life, so long as they are not of walks that the Quel'dorei would have their natural reservations about :)

"Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires." Renthar began to rise from his seat, leaning across the table, truly shaking with rage. "And now you want to offer aid?"

It probably refers to Blood Magi and those crystals in Quel'thalas. I personally think it's a silly stance to take, since if you are going to kill something you might as well make use of its resources too. I think the Quel'dorei were a little too quick to dismiss their brethren, who had no other source to sate their hunger and who needed the immense power fel provides to crush the Scourge. A few Quel'dorei can sustain themselves off ley energies in Dalaran or Moonwells but the entire population? Not very likely. Couple that with Garithos's stupidity and the Kirin Tor's callous indifference, and it becomes all the more unrealistic to see another way out for them at the time.

Sucking fel out of demons does not seem to be the only way to obtain it, anyway. As I said before, the Quel'dorei have an aversion to the stuff because of the Highborne's history with the Legion. They don't really have much to go on beyond that, as they were not faithful in any large numbers to the Light. Now I am not saying they'd welcome them, but you could at least expect some few to be treated with grudging tolerance. Warlocks have their advantages in times of war, as fel is borderline irresistible (i.e. useful against a broad range of foes) and very destructive, and also because as casters they have immense endurance, much like battlemagi.

Though I respect the OP's decision to avoid them, they're not easy to integrate what with how little information the lore provides on them. I always drew the line between Quel'dorei and Sin'dorei based on whether the elf uses and embraces fel and secondarily on whether they swore an oath of fealty to Quel'thalas. Clearly it's trickier than that, though, since how Blizzard differentiates between the two exactly is very unclear. Fel is a big part of it from the looks of it but not the only one. It's certainly not just a political allegiance.

Just a quick nudge regarding Tauren: High Elves were generally looked upon poorly by the Tauren in a similar way to the Kaldorei look down on them - they could sense the corrupting influence of the Arcane in them. This was RPG material, of course, but perhaps worth thinking about.

It probably still holds. I think he just meant that the enmity between the Tauren and Quel'dorei is less visceral than it is between them and most other Horde races.

It probably refers to Blood Magi and those crystals in Quel'thalas. I personally think it's a silly stance to take, since if you are going to kill something you might as well make use of its resources too. I think the Quel'dorei were a little too quick to dismiss their brethren, who had no other source to sate their hunger and who needed the immense power fel provides to crush the Scourge. A few Quel'dorei can sustain themselves off ley energies in Dalaran or Moonwells but the entire population? Not very likely. Couple that with Garithos's stupidity and the Kirin Tor's callous indifference, and it becomes all the more unrealistic to see another way out for them at the time.

Sucking fel out of demons does not seem to be the only way to obtain it, anyway. As I said before, the Quel'dorei have an aversion to the stuff because of the Highborne's history with the Legion. They don't really have much to go on beyond that, as they were not faithful in any large numbers to the Light. Now I am not saying they'd welcome them, but you could at least expect some few to be treated with grudging tolerance. Warlocks have their advantages in times of war, as fel is borderline irresistible (i.e. useful against a broad range of foes) and very destructive, and also because as casters they have immense endurance, much like battlemagi.

Though I respect the OP's decision to avoid them, they're not easy to integrate what with how little information the lore provides on them. I always drew the line between Quel'dorei and Sin'dorei based on whether the elf uses and embraces fel and secondarily on whether they swore an oath of fealty to Quel'thalas. Clearly it's trickier than that, though, since how Blizzard differentiates between the two exactly is very unclear. Fel is a big part of it from the looks of it but not the only one. It's certainly not just a political allegiance.

I agree with much of what you've said, and rest assured it's not our intention to have no relations whatsoever with the Elves/Sin'dorei of Quel'thalas, but the guild is, as the name implies, a union of Quel'dorei, but it will also be more than that. We are very much aware of the fact that the High Elves are a race potentially on the verge of extinction (Not that they already haven't been with around 1% of their total numbers remaining), and thus we will focus very much on the idea of "Forging ourselves a future, but without the mistakes of the past".

Of course, there will likely be situations where those who employ Fel magic might offer their aid, and given the scarcity of the Quel'dorei, they would be highly unlikely to deny it, but that doesn't mean they have to like it either; a 'grudging tolerance', as you suggested. Many Alliances in history however have been forged out of necessity; the Horde indeed as an entire faction, consists of many races brought together by their plights (The Tauren and the Centaur, the Darkspear and the Naga/Murlocs, etcetera), and who probably would not have come together without them. Our basis will be very much the same; an entire race faced with the plight of worryingly diminished numbers, many of whom would be coming together as a means of survival.

The Alliance and the Horde have aided one another many times in the past without necessarily merging their factions; we would be very much the same. In the event that there may indeed by an uncorrupted Quel'dorei warlock who offers his aid for example, we have the rank of 'Ally' for those who, whilst perhaps not strictly being a part of the Union (Or even Quel'dorei for that matter, depending on the circumstances), are nonetheless seen as friends/allies in times of strife. We have our exceptions naturally with this in mind, and appreciate the fact that, whatever aid may come our way, and however many reservations the Quel'dorei might have, they do not necessarily have a choice these days; but that is not to say it is not 'begrudging tolerance', as mentioned earlier.

Naturally this would be very circumstantial; depending on whom such aid might pledge itself to and so on, or whether they are living or undead, but most of our relations (Horde at least) are likely to be rather frosty by default; but that's not to say we don't have measures implemented in the event that a worthy ally presents him/herself from a race the Quel'dorei might normally disdain. I hope that's been informative enough and not too waffly!

22/04/2012 15:56Posted by Caelheim

Just figured I'd toss it here since it may prove useful if you want to explain the presence of fel users in the Silver Covenant.

Consuming fel magic is wrong, but channeling it through spells is totally fine.

Vereesa is a hypocrite. Not like that would be something new about her, eh?...but still.

Just a quick update - We plan to begin in-character initiation/recruitment from tomorrow evening in a small guild event held at Seradane in the Hinterlands, approximately 20:00 server time.

Those who may have questions regarding the guild or who wish to join for that matter can feel free to whisper me before hand (I shall online from about noon onward), or if preferred they can make their presence known during the guild event. We look forward to seeing an already reassuring amount of people present given the sheer amount of interest we've had shown over these past couple of days, and I will happily ferry people there who cannot make the journey themselves; Seradane is a completely mob-free area and thus safe for all levels. I can say without a doubt that I look forward to the future, so here's to tomorrow and a new beginning!

Just a slight change - The guild meeting at Seradane will be held at the slightly more forgiving time of 18:00 server time.

Again, feel free to let me know in-game if you would like to turn up, or if you have any questions about the guild don't hesitate to ask :)

23/04/2012 12:09Posted by Denelas

Just a slight change - The guild meeting at Seradane will be held at the slightly more forgiving time of 18:00 server time.

And that change means I might just be able to make it!

I'll...need to level first, won't I?

23/04/2012 12:48Posted by Ilos

Just a slight change - The guild meeting at Seradane will be held at the slightly more forgiving time of 18:00 server time.

And that change means I might just be able to make it!

I'll...need to level first, won't I?

There'll be no level requirement rest assured; we mightn't be a high enough level Guild for 'Have Group, Will Travel' just yet, but I do have a 2-person mount with which I can ferry any who wish to come along and aren't of a very high level to Seradane where we will meet. With 'Have Group, Will Travel' bring removed next expansion as well, I suppose this is an opportunity to get used to that fact :P

I would just add that there will still be a smaller meeting occurring later in the evening around ~20:00 server time, for those who cannot make it for the earlier one. If neither are convenient but you are still interested in joining us, feel free to toss me a whisper in-game and we can arrange something suiting (Joining the guild however, even if not initiated/welcomed in-character is perfectly fine, as has already been the case, and then in future meetings we can initiate/welcome :) )

Our first guild event has finished and lasted for a very enjoyable hour, with a positively heartening turn-out of people from our own guild. With the guild now having been founded in the aforementioned roleplay event, our guild could now officially be branded as being 'in-character', and so too do we now plan to begin in-character recruitment.

If the idea of our guild interests you in any way, or if you have any questions about it, then please don't hesitate to contact me and I will be happy to address any questions that you may have! We offer a friendly environment of people who are as friendly out-of-character as they are great in-character, and we'd be happy to welcome any new Quel'dorei into our ranks as we plan to grow and prosper, not least in the roleplay! :)